Factory Engraving?

[45Smashemflat]

Pretty much out of my range, but I was looking at a 6" 29-2 that purports to be factory engraved. The site only has a few photos, but it is very good looking in a fitted case.

My question is, short of a letter, how can one determine if it is in fact factory engraving?

 

[weatherby]

Was the S&W trademark on the left side not the right side ?

That can be an indicator

 

[ACE10000D]

What Weatherby said, and pics would help.

 

[rct269]

The location of the trademark is a quick and dirty telltale---and makes for a very good guess. A letter from the S&W Historical Foundation makes for a lead pipe cinch!!

Ralph Tremaine

To explain this trademark business, a large trademark on the right hand side (on the sideplate) is business as usual. A small trademark on the other side indicates a gun to be factory engraved---or a special order likely to be engraved elsewhere----and the reasoning behind all this is the absence of the trademark on the right side opens up a large expanse of virgin territory for the engraver to use---oft times for an inlay---or an inscription.

 

[45Smashemflat]

Ah, good call out! Small trademark, port side. I would like to post a snipped photo, but it's an active sale, don't want to break any rules. Are photos ok?

Well past my normal budget, but it sure is pretty!

 

[22hipower]

Yes, small trademark on the left side, except there are some models where that is the normal location for the trademark. On a 29-2 it should confirm factory engraving, but not always. But, there's more to the story. There's factory engraving and then there's other factory engraving. The work done by the master engravers employed before, and some after, 1979 will be the most sought after and usually the most expensive. Around 1979 S&W contracted out a lot of their engraving to Italian engravers. S&W letters won't tell you where, or usually by whom, a gun was engraved (there are exceptions of course).

The Italian engraved guns usually sell for $2500-$3500 while those by Russ Smith, Tommy Freyburger, Paul Piquette and others will go for double or more, sometimes a lot more. Additionally S&W contracted to independent engravers such as Denise Thirion and their work is often on a par with the in house engravers.

There are many great engravers whose work will command prices that match or exceed S&W factory work who were never employed by S&W.

As RKmesa, probably the most knowledgeable and prolific engraved gun enthusiast here says, "the engraving needs to speak to you." If it does, buy it.

Here's a 29-2 which has a letter confirming it to be factory engraved. I'm pretty sure it is an example of Italian contract engraving from 1980. Price two years ago was a little less than $3k.

The second one is also a 29-2 but from 1965 and engraved by factory engraver Russ Smith. Note the lack of a logo on the left side. It cost a lot more than $3k.

Jeff
SWCA #1457

https://flic.kr/p/2qk3Knq https://www.flickr.com/photos/194934231@N03/

https://flic.kr/p/2qk3Knk https://www.flickr.com/photos/194934231@N03/

 

[45Smashemflat]

This is a GREAT place to learn stuff! Your top photo looks very similar to the one I am looking at. Did S&W make specific fitted cases for these as well? (No tool spots, just the gun.). This has similar smooth presentation grips.

Certainly great looking revolvers!

 

[22hipower]

Many shipped in a mahogany box like the one shown below. This style box has dove tailed corners, molded blue plastic insert. The complete package had paperwork, tools, and the gun actually shipped in a plain blue cardboard box packed inside a cardboard shipping container with the wooden box and accessories. There were other styles of inserts for the wooden boxes and some engraved guns weren't shipped in the wooden boxes. There are a number of custom gun case makers too so without seeing it we probably can't confirm whether or not it is factory.

Jeff
SWCA #1457

]

 

[rct269]

In other words, there's a LOT more to all this than meets the eye---although what meets the eye counts for a LOT too!

The bottom line of all this is these engraved guns aren't guns any more---or aren't just guns any more. They started out that way, but they became a "canvas" for the artist to use to display their talent.

They'll still shoot, but God forbid you should actually shoot one---never mind it won't hurt them-----at least not much----just enough for you to get a dirty look!

Ralph Tremaine

 

[45Smashemflat]

Yeah, I'll probably just watch this one and see what happens. They are a bit rich for me, but I certainly appreciate the artistic efforts and aspects! It costs nothing to admire them!

 

[Dino44]

22hipower, Did any of the above-mentioned engravers, factory or contractor leave their personal marks on the guns they did?

 

[22hipower]

22hipower, Did any of the above-mentioned engravers, factory or contractor leave their personal marks on the guns they did?

Sometimes, but apparently rarely. S&W frowned on the engravers signing their work, some did it anyway in out of the way places such as initials under the thumb piece. They sometimes signed work that was commissioned outside of the factory. I have a 29-2 which is signed (R. J. Smith) under the ejector shroud and this one letters as having been engraved by him but done for a fellow S&W employee and so not officially "factory" engraved.

Jeff
SWCA #1457

 

[RKmesa]

Yes, small trademark on the left side, except there are some models where that is the normal location for the trademark. On a 29-2 it should confirm factory engraving, but not always. But, there's more to the story. There's factory engraving and then there's other factory engraving. The work done by the master engravers employed before, and some after, 1979 will be the most sought after and usually the most expensive. Around 1979 S&W contracted out a lot of their engraving to Italian engravers. S&W letters won't tell you where, or usually by whom, a gun was engraved (there are exceptions of course).

The Italian engraved guns usually sell for $2500-$3500 while those by Russ Smith, Tommy Freyburger, Paul Piquette and others will go for double or more, sometimes a lot more. Additionally S&W contracted to independent engravers such as Denise Thirion and their work is often on a par with the in house engravers.

There are many great engravers whose work will command prices that match or exceed S&W factory work who were never employed by S&W.

As RKmesa, probably the most knowledgeable and prolific engraved gun enthusiast here says, "the engraving needs to speak to you." If it does, buy it.

Here's a 29-2 which has a letter confirming it to be factory engraved. I'm pretty sure it is an example of Italian contract engraving from 1980. Price two years ago was a little less than $3k.

The second one is also a 29-2 but from 1965 and engraved by factory engraver Russ Smith. Note the lack of a logo on the left side. It cost a lot more than $3k.

Jeff
SWCA #1457

Many shipped in a mahogany box like the one shown below. This style box has dove tailed corners, molded blue plastic insert. The complete package had paperwork, tools, and the gun actually shipped in a plain blue cardboard box packed inside a cardboard shipping container with the wooden box and accessories. There were other styles of inserts for the wooden boxes and some engraved guns weren't shipped in the wooden boxes. There are a number of custom gun case makers too so without seeing it we probably can't confirm whether or not it is factory.

Jeff
SWCA #1457

Sometimes, but apparently rarely. S&W frowned on the engravers signing their work, some did it anyway in out of the way places such as initials under the thumb piece. They sometimes signed work that was commissioned outside of the factory. I have a 29-2 which is signed (R. J. Smith) under the ejector shroud and this one letters as having been engraved by him but done for a fellow S&W employee and so not officially "factory" engraved.

Jeff
SWCA #1457

Well said my friend.