.38 S&W vs .38 Colt Police Positive

[Riverraider]

I have some old ammo, I thought the comparison would be cool. Both are by Remington, the Colt is Flat nose, 150gr, the S&W is round nose 146gr. The wording on the side of the box is reversed. The Colt is stamped NP, for new police. I plan on trying it tomorrow.

 

[Model19man]

That ammo - both boxes - is 38 S&W caliber. As such the velocity should be pretty low, like under 1000 FPS for both rounds. A chronograph would be interesting.

 

[Alk8944]

I have some old ammo, I thought the comparison would be cool. Both are by Remington, the Colt is Flat nose, 150gr, the S&W is round nose 146gr. The wording on the side of the box is reversed. The Colt is stamped NP, for new police. I plan on trying it tomorrow.

Why? The .38 S&W and .38 Colt New Police are the same cartridge except for minor differences. Those differences are:

Bullet weight, (slight)
Bullet shape, (insignificant)
headstamp.

The exact same situation exists with the .38 S&W Special and the .38 Colt Special and the .32 S&W Long and .32 Colt New Police. It was a marketing thing plain, simple, and silly.

Why would you want to shoot up what is basically antique ammunition?

 

[.38SuperMan]

I'll look up my chronograph data later but remember the velocity of factory ammo around 650-675 fps out of a 2" Smith Terrier. They're a lot like a mild 38 special and low recoil even out of the little terrier. Although not the most powerful cartridge I'd still consider it viable if you have an issue with recoil. It probably exceeds 32acp and long and comes close or exceeds 380 acp in energy. The biggest issue is a lack of bullet choice if you're looking for the correct diameter bullets of .361 to reload. Some people use .357-.358 for reloading and have read hollow base wadcutters work well.

 

[jimmyj]

A Colt PP 4" .38spl was my first "Off Duty". Small frame with a 4" barrel was awesome. easy to carry yet accurate. Service revolver was a Colt Trooper 4" .38spl. Manual of arms were the same for both.

 

[DWalt]

I'll look up my chronograph data later but remember the velocity of factory ammo around 650-675 fps out of a 2" Smith Terrier. They're a lot like a mild 38 special and low recoil even out of the little terrier. Although not the most powerful cartridge I'd still consider it viable if you have an issue with recoil. It probably exceeds 32acp and long and comes close or exceeds 380 acp in energy. The biggest issue is a lack of bullet choice if you're looking for the correct diameter bullets of .361 to reload. Some people use .357-.358 for reloading and have read hollow base wadcutters work well.

.358 bullets work fine for reloading the .38 S&W. I have fired thousands of them.The SAAMI minimum bullet diameter specification for the .38 S&W is 0.355". For use in a solid frame revolver, .38 S&W can be uploaded easily to equal the ballistic performance of the .38 Special.

 

[Jim Watson]

Hatcher's Relative Stopping Power includes a term for bullet shape.
The flat nose of the Colt branded ammo gains 5% in stopping power over the round nose of the same load with S&W label.

 

[desi2358]

Why? The .38 S&W and .38 Colt New Police are the same cartridge except for minor differences. Those differences are:

Bullet weight, (slight)
Bullet shape, (insignificant)
headstamp.

The exact same situation exists with the .38 S&W Special and the .38 Colt Special and the .32 S&W Long and .32 Colt New Police. It was a marketing thing plain, simple, and silly.

Why would you want to shoot up what is basically antique ammunition?

You are quite correct that they are essentially the same cartridge and that the prime reason that the Colt version exists was marketing. I don't see any issue with the OP wanting to shoot some of them. They are clearly partial boxes in less than perfect condition with little collector value. I have been collecting ammo for years, often deal in rare & collectible stuff at the shows and would have no issue shooting these myself. I have ended up with many partial boxes and loose rounds over the years and it can be fun to see what still works despite its age. I have shot rounds far older than these and been pleased to find them to still be accurate and functional (and if I get a couple that don't fire I pull them down and re-use the bullet & casing). Just something fun to do and learn a bit about how durable ammo can be.

 

[Riverraider]

My grandfather had a FFL, he's been gone since 1998 when I was in the Navy, my dad is 73, I inherited all my grandfathers guns, and ammo. The value I'm getting having my father shoot his father's old guns, ammo, some of which are reloads from 1991 far exceeds any value placed on anything else. The gun and the ammo worked well. Out of 30 rounds, 1 old Remington round didn't fire, it had a dead primer, and one of my grandfathers reloads from 91 didn't fire, I would have to inspect it closer but the firing pin was offset to the side of the primer. That was the only round like that, so might be bab brass. Anyway, the gun is getting cleaned and put back in the safe.

 

[DWalt]

You are quite correct that they are essentially the same cartridge and that the prime reason that the Colt version exists was marketing. I don't see any issue with the OP wanting to shoot some of them. They are clearly partial boxes in less than perfect condition with little collector value. I have been collecting ammo for years, often deal in rare & collectible stuff at the shows and would have no issue shooting these myself. I have ended up with many partial boxes and loose rounds over the years and it can be fun to see what still works despite its age. I have shot rounds far older than these and been pleased to find them to still be accurate and functional (and if I get a couple that don't fire I pull them down and re-use the bullet & casing). Just something fun to do and learn a bit about how durable ammo can be.

Some years ago I came into over 100 rounds of really old .38 S&W. You could tell from their condition and headstamps. I fired or attempted to fire them. As I remember about a third of them were duds, and some were black powder. I pulled the bullets from the dud rounds and measured them as .356-.357 diameter. Some of the cases used a smaller diameter primer than those of today, and could not be reloaded.

 

[desi2358]

Some years ago I came into over 100 rounds of really old .38 S&W. You could tell from their condition and headstamps. I fired or attempted to fire them. As I remember about a third of them were duds, and some were black powder. I pulled the bullets from the dud rounds and measured them as .356-.357 diameter. Some of the cases used a smaller diameter primer than those of today, and could not be reloaded.

Yeah, sometimes you run across some bad ones. Worst I can recall was a partial box of Remington made 1930's era 32 S&W Long........... Not even one out of 30 went off. Pulled them down. powder, case interiors & bullets were clean, must have been a bad lot of primers was my guess.

On 38 S&W I've not run into any noticeably odd sized bullets in misfired rounds but it wouldn't surprise me. Manufacturers specs sometimes seem to be more a suggestion than a requirement especially with stuff from the late 1800's based on some other calibers I've examined. I did take 80 rounds of assorted old 38 S&W stuff out to try earlier this summer (the sweepings from a sorting job through a late friends collection). Had 11 misfires and one delayed ignition, not bad. Well over half of the ones that fired were black powder loads. The misfires were 7 smokeless, 4 black powder. Based on the lack of smoke and examining the case the hangfire was also a smokeless load.

I have run into some odd sized primer pockets in various calibers over the years too, Some were much to shallow to seat a modern primer, some larger or smaller diameter than current stuff is. Have a couple in US calibers that were Berdan with a single flash hole in the center of the anvil. No headstamp so either very early or foreign made. All in all, just a fun part of my hobby, tinkering with and collecting old ammo.