Swedish Journalist Seeking Help with a Cold Case Murder

[Mag Arv]

Hello,

I’m a journalist with the Swedish newspaper Svenska Dagbladet (SvD), and I’m currently investigating an old murder case from 1986: the assassination of Sweden’s Prime Minister, Olof Palme.

He was shot with a .357 (9.07mm) Metal Piercing round, which was manufactured/loaded by Winchester & Western in the fall of 1979.

My focus is on one of the individuals suspected of the crime. A bullet connected to this individual was analyzed and compared to the one that killed the Prime Minister. Interestingly, the analysis revealed that the proportion of zinc and copper in the jacket was an exact match with the bullet that killed Olof Palme.

My question is: what conclusions can be drawn from this? Does anyone know if Winchester Metal Piercing .357 rounds had a unique zinc-copper alloy composition that was specific to this type of ammunition?

While this won’t solve the murder, it is an important piece of the puzzle in one of Sweden’s most significant criminal cases. I would be very grateful if anyone has insights on this or can point me toward an expert or former employee of Winchester & Western who worked on ammunition production in the 1980s.

Best regards from Stockholm,

Magnus
[email protected]

 

[Tom S.]

Welcome to the forum!

I am not an expert on factory loaded .357 magnum ammo, but I have never heard of metal piercing rounds in that caliber. Metal piercing rounds usually have a solid core of dense but strong material such as steel, tungsten carbide or depleted uranium. With the exception of Barnes solid copper bullets, nearly all bullets of that time had lead cores unless they were military rounds. I don't recall any military using .357 magnum ammo, so as I said, I don't recall any metal piercing rounds of that caliber.

As to the composition of the copper jacket, it stands to reason that the jacket Winchester used on all of it's jacketed handgun projectiles would be the same composition. The jackets of the time were stamped out into small blanks that were drawn into cups. A slug of lead was inserted and the bullet formed. Even the composition between rifle and pistol may have been the same, though the jacket itself may have been of a different thickness.

Stay tuned as I am sure others will chime on this!

 

[ralph7]

I have a box produced in that era.

 

[.455_Hunter]

I doubt the "metal piercing" jacket material for the .38 and .357 conical loads was any different than the other FMJ handgun projectile produced by Winchester at the same time frame- .25 acp, .32 acp, .380 acp, .38 auto/super, 9mm P, .38 special (M41), .45 acp, etc. The "conventional" cup and core nature of the Winchester metal piercing loads may have offered a bit of enhanced penetration on sheet metal targets over the traditional lead (RN/SWC) or JSP loadings, but nothing like the solid tungsten (later steel) offerings from KTW. Remington also produced metal piercing loads in .357 and 45 acp using lightweight solid zinc projectiles, which also had limited utilization in the law enforcement community.

 

[shawn mccarver]

Hello,

I’m a journalist with the Swedish newspaper Svenska Dagbladet (SvD), and I’m currently investigating an old murder case from 1986: the assassination of Sweden’s Prime Minister, Olof Palme.

He was shot with a .357 (9.07mm) Metal Piercing round, which was manufactured/loaded by Winchester & Western in the fall of 1979.

My focus is on one of the individuals suspected of the crime. A bullet connected to this individual was analyzed and compared to the one that killed the Prime Minister. Interestingly, the analysis revealed that the proportion of zinc and copper in the jacket was an exact match with the bullet that killed Olof Palme.

My question is: what conclusions can be drawn from this? Does anyone know if Winchester Metal Piercing .357 rounds had a unique zinc-copper alloy composition that was specific to this type of ammunition?

While this won’t solve the murder, it is an important piece of the puzzle in one of Sweden’s most significant criminal cases. I would be very grateful if anyone has insights on this or can point me toward an expert or former employee of Winchester & Western who worked on ammunition production in the 1980s.

Best regards from Stockholm,

Magnus
[email protected]

My recommendation is that you contact Winchester directly. They haven't been Winchester-Western for decades now, but someone there may be able to answer your question or put you in touch with someone who was with W-W when that type of bullet was produced.

 

[DWalt]

Winchester and Western metal piercing handgun bullets were of conventional FMJ lead core design, except the jacket nose was more sharp pointed and the jacket in that nose area was considerably thicker. The bullet was made to better penetrate auto bodies, NOT armor. While I suspect the MP bullet jacket alloy used was the same as the jackets for all other jacketed handgun bullets, I do not know if that is correct. Someone at Olin might be able to check the old specs. I believe the MP handgun cartridges have not been made for decades. Remington also made MP handgun cartridges long ago, but they used a solid zinc alloy bullet.

BTW, Olin had a separate metals company that made copper and brass alloys. It was located very close to the Western cartridge factory when it was in East Alton IL. I once knew many W-W people there and was in their plant many times, but that was long ago.

 

[Richard Simmons]

I have a box produced in that era.

I also have a box however mine is the old yellow Super X box.

 

[glenwolde]

My first thought was that the jacket alloy has a "signature". Even though the alloy may very well be a "prescribed" alloy, there will be detectable variations lot-to-lot.

So the question would be, which lot is it from? How big was that lot? and how many rounds were made from it? and how many were exported to Sweden?

Only Winchester can answer those questions, and they won't. Unless your government requests assistance from our government, and the FBI shows up at Olin (Winchester) and makes them.

I suspect you'll discover that only one lot was exported to Sweden in the time frame in question. Which would leave you with little progress in the investigation.

 

[DWalt]

This does not answer the question, but at least in the USA, the compositional analysis of lead bullet alloys cannot be used to connect ammunition with a criminal act. There was a court case some time ago. It involved a murder defendant, and the prosecution attempted to connect the lead alloy composition of the murder bullet with the bullet alloy in cartridges found in the suspect’s possession. That was something the FBI had routinely used often up to that time. Scientific tests showed there was too much bullet-to-bullet composition variability to use it as evidence. see: Comparative bullet-lead analysis - Wikipedia.

 

[SG-688]

This is not the first time a journalist has popped up on a forum to pose the question.

Pictures for historical interest:
1952 Winchester catalog diagram of metal piercing performance against a car and Remington and Winchester .38 Spl. Not .357 but same bullet.

 

[gunbarrel]

As some of the other Forum members said, you need to speak with an expert at Winchester Ammunition, and probably to an ATF agent, as well.

We are not knowledgeable about it because metal piercing handgun ammunition (some call it Armor Piercing ammo) is ILLEGAL for civilian use in the United States. Our Federal laws prohibit the manufacture, sale to civilians and possession by civilians of that type of ammunition. It can only be possessed and used by certain law enforcement agencies.

More on that here:

Armor Piercing Ammunition | Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives

BTW, I believe that the military still uses armor piercing ammo on LONG arms (rifles) and artillery, as needed for battle. Usually, AP rifle ammo has a tip with a distinctive color.

 

[pasound]

USA 5.56 and .223 armor piercing ammo is the "green tip". Sometimes my LGS has a few boxes. Never seen the .38 or .357 versions, but no doubt they existed at one time. History tells me the original 38-44 revolver and cartridge was built for police use to penetrate automobile metal.

 

[Rob613]

USA 5.56 and .223 armor piercing ammo is the "green tip". Sometimes my LGS has a few boxes. Never seen the .38 or .357 versions, but no doubt they existed at one time. History tells me the original 38-44 revolver and cartridge was built for police use to penetrate automobile metal.

By definition, green tip is not AP.

 

[.455_Hunter]

We are not knowledgeable about it because metal piercing handgun ammunition (some call it Armor Piercing ammo) is ILLEGAL for civilian use in the United States. Our Federal laws prohibit the manufacture, sale to civilians and possession by civilians of that type of ammunition. It can only be possessed and used by certain law enforcement agencies.

More on that here:

Armor Piercing Ammunition | Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives

BTW, I believe that the military still uses armor piercing ammo on LONG arms (rifles) and artillery, as needed for battle. Usually, AP rifle ammo has a tip with a distinctive color.

Not applicable to the ammo of OP's interest- it's not considered AP by the ATF. It's really just a variation of FMJ.

 

[Tom S.]

I have a box produced in that era.

Nice! Never saw these before. I wonder if they have a metal core or just the pointed copper jacket? BTW Turned the photo.

 

[offrdmania]

I cant help with this case but I have some 38 wadcutters in that same era box. They still look brand new, the brass is still shiny. Im saving them for a special shoot

 

[444 Magnum]

Here's some pics of the earlier yellow box. Same product code less the 'X' prefix.

 

[WR Moore]

OK, WW .357 Lubaloy ammunition was a lead bullet with a copper finish similar to that on WW high speed .22 rim fire. It was also, in my experience, woefully inadequate to prevent leading in .357 Magnum. I saw that type of metal piercing ammunition back in the mid 1960's. I believe it has a formed metal cap on an otherwise lead bullet. Maybe just a plated conical lead bullet?

If 444 Magnum would be willing to sacrifice a round by pulling the bullet, we can find out exactly what's what.

 

[444 Magnum]

If 444 Magnum would be willing to sacrifice a round by pulling the bullet, we can find out exactly what's what.

It's part of my vintage ammo collection. I would gladly sacrifice one if it wasn't a full box. I don't expect the shooters on the forum to appreciate this, but the collectors will.

 

[Tom S.]

I'd love to put one on the mill and do a cut-away to see how it was actually constructed.