36-1 with frequent light primer strikes, should I try new springs & if so, which?

[Jboogie]

Hi all,

I have a S&W 36-1 that I picked up about six months back. I like the gun a lot except for one issue, which is that I get light primer strikes basically every other cylinder at least once. Sometimes it will be 2/5 rounds in a cylinder. Sometimes it seems to show up/become more pronounced after shooting for a bit but I haven't confirmed that for sure. The trigger and hammer does feel very light, like maybe the previous owner cut it too short or something.

I'm wondering if I can possibly resolve it by just ordering a new mainspring. They seem to be cheap enough and my understanding is it's a simple enough process that I should be able to manage it without needing a gunsmith etc. Is there one manufacturer over the other that you all would recommend? I'm not looking for the lightest possible trigger, I want more reliable ignition each time I pull the trigger. I know that Apex has a Duty/Carry kit, Wolff has a nice selection of springs (8lbs vs 8.lbs vs 9lbs), and Wilson Combat has a kit as well.

Does anyone have any recommendations for a replacement set of springs for an old J-Frame that will work in a 36-1? Any insight is appreciated. Thank you.

 

[pasound]

If it hasn't been opened up and cleaned inside, now might be the time to check. And it will also show you if the recoil spring has been compromised. My 36 was so gummed up it would barely rotate, so it's not a good example, but it is an example of lube turning into glue. It's my best shooting j-frame now.

 

[youngolddude]

Do a quick search for a new hammer spring for your model. I would suggest Wolf. I prefer my guns to set off any brand primer and some lighten their guns to only work with Federals. Check shipping costs since they can be more than a mainspring and some charge more than others.

 

[jimmyj]

1. Check the chambers are clean and that the cartridges go all the way flush in the chambers.
2. Check ammo (Factory or reloads)
3. Check Firing pin for correct length and if the firing pin protrudes all the way thru the recoil shield.
4. Check end shake
*** if above all checks out--
5. take off side plate and spray down with "Gun Scrubber".
6. Count coils on mainspring as a previous owner could have cut coils off.
7. if the mainspring has coils missing, install a new mainspring.
Hpoefully this solves the issue. If not consider a gunsmith.

 

[Matt_X]

I have a mid 70s 36-1 that had failures to fire when using Fiocchi, which have hard primers.
Worked through improving the situation in the thread linked below. There was some rubbing I addressed first.
Normal Hammer block contact? Model 36

You can compare the spring forces I measured using the same method - linked on second page.
I have not yet tried the higher rate silver factory spring.
Careful when removing the spring and strut. The flat strut is easily bent.

 

[Pisgah]

Give it a good flushing-out first and see if that helps, but likely some "expert" has done a "trigger job" by cutting the mainspring, and replacement will fix it.

 

[daveboy]

I have a mid 70s 36-1 that had failures to fire when using Fiocchi, which have hard primers.
Worked through improving the situation in the thread linked below. There was some rubbing I addressed first.
Normal Hammer block contact? Model 36

You can compare the spring forces I measured using the same method - linked on second page.
I have not yet tried the higher rate silver factory spring.
Careful when removing the spring and strut. The flat strut is easily bent.

MattX, I read thru your thread. Although I haven't experienced this problem (yet), there is some great info there. However, I didn't see a final fix. Did you get it figured out?

 

[Matt_X]

MattX, I read thru your thread. Although I haven't experienced this problem (yet), there is some great info there. However, I didn't see a final fix. Did you get it figured out?

With the rubbing minimized and 59 oz. of weight (measured as shown in the link) for spring force it seems to be fine unless one uses ammo with hard, or very hard primers.

The last time I had the 36-1 out and the range had .38 spl Fiocchi was May 12.
Each of the first two cylinders had one failure to fire. Both times the cartridge fired on a second strike. So 2 out of 10 fail to fire double action.
But the next 40 rounds of Fiocchi fired first strike, as did the 10 Precision One cartridges with CCI primers (generally considred a hard primer). So overall a major improvement.

This past November I was at the state range and brought Winchester 150 grn LRN and no failures to fire and the primer strikes looked nice.

But without having more Fiocchi, I can' t be sure it will be 100% OK with their primers. On the other hand I have little incentive to buy .38 Spl Fiocchi.


I am curious if the silver factory spring will increase the hammer force. The change would be increasing the spring rate from 14 lbs/in to 17 lb/s inch. As they both have the same free length, I think this would result in a significant step up in spring force. Probably above the 62 oz. that was suggested as needed for hard primer. So trying that 17 lb/in spring on the 'to do' list. Buts its not been a priority.


The other question is will it change the feel of the action. My guess is that it won't be very noticible but again trying it will prove or disprove that.


My suggestions is to begine with the cleaning, use a marker to look for rubbing, compare the spring visually and by measurement to other know J-frame springs. Also measure the hammer force. Then with that compare with info posted in that thread and you can determine the next step(s) that make sense.

 

[Erich]

$10 - new condition OEM factory spring

Mainspring, New Factory Original

Write back if you still have problems after replacing your mainspring with this one. I suspect you won't.

 

[daveboy]

I just installed a Wolf 8lb mainspring and 13lb return spring in my Model 36. Fired it for the first time today. Thirty rounds and not a hiccup.

 

[Jboogie]

Hi all, sorry for the delay in responding. I've finally been able to take the grips off my 36-1 and take a look at the mainspring screw. Does this look like an original spring with the appropriate number of coils? Thanks again for the assistance.

Thinking I'll probably order an OEM replacement or one from Wolff either way.

 

[oink]

I don't know what the coil count is supposed to be but that thing looks pristine inside. My first action would be to take the side plate off and hose it out real well with a Gun Scrub type product. Then oil lightly with a light oil. Try that before you alter anything.

 

[daveboy]

Thinking I'll probably order an OEM replacement or one from Wolff either way.

You can get the entire kit with reduced power mainspring and three different weights of rebound springs from Wolf for about twenty bucks, or so. I'd definitely go that route. You don't have to replace the rebound spring unless you want to. You will have to remove the sideplate to replace the mainspring. While you're in there, make sure everything is clean and lightly lubed.

I just put the Wolf kit in my Model 36, with the 8 lb mainspring and 13 lb rebound spring. I am working up a load for it, and took it to the range yesterday. I looked at the primers closely for signs of overpressure. I noticed that the firing-pin indentations were very distinct, deep, and consistent. Every gun is different, but that reduced-power mainspring works perfectly in mine.

 

[Matt_X]

There is no main spring screw on this revolver.
My suggestion is to find someone to help you on disassembly and examination. It is critical not to damage the sideplate or the hammer strut. Also with such a nice looking example, there's no reason to bugger the sideplate screws, and a person with some experience will have a set of hollow ground screwdrivers.

I think the sideplate has been removed before. But that's just my opinion.

Looks like it has the earlier round strut and maybe something odd at the top or maybe its just the lighting. If you want take another photo with the stocks off and at full cock. That may show us more. To know if the spring is factory it has to be removed so the ends can be seen. That's for later.

 

[max503]

Funny, not funny ha ha, but when I bought my used 36 at a gun show several decades ago the first thing it needed were new springs.

If it was mine I would go with an OEM replacement. I wouldn't try to lighten the trigger pull, but some people do with success. I'm not that lucky.

Back than I had a local gunsmith do mine. It shouldn't cost much to have it done. Now I would do it myself.

If you're not real handy I wouldn't replace the rebound spring. I've heard of people breaking the post that it seats against.

 

[Retired W4]

Removing/installing the main spring and shaft is fairly easy (paper clip). The fun comes with installing the new spring on the shaft. I get my wife to help me with that task. Getting a lighter trigger pull with consistent ignition is a balancing act. Delving into the inner workings of a S&W can be challenging and fun. It's one of my favorite hobbies. Best of luck with yours.

Something does look odd about that spring, especially at the top.

 

[Jboogie]

Here are a couple pics with the hammer cocked.

Thanks everyone for chiming in. I was hoping it was something I could do myself without needing to pay a gunsmith $100 to do it in probably 15 minutes, but if it means not damaging the gun, that might be the way to go. I'd move it on down the road before I spend all sorts of money, time, and heartache trying to get it to work properly. I have gunsmith screwdrivers but I'm not an expert.

 

[Matt_X]

It's up to you how much time and effort you want to put. Learning to remove the sideplate is probably useful in general.

Learning from internet posted information can be hit or miss. I know enough (now) to see red flags, but not enough to recommend a specific post here or you tube video. I'd say odds are worse with youtube. But I think learning to open up and see the insides is worthwhile, even if you go no further.


The paperwork in the box probably hasa diagram and part names. I *think* that by the time your revovler was made it no longer has anything about opening and lubing the internals. But take a look. I'd also be curious of about when your revolver was made.


Somebody has added a small spring as a spacer to the upper end. The main spring or hammer spring looks to be coil bound. By that I mean the coils are contacting each other and may be even distorting the spring.



For comparison, here's a photo of my 36-1 with the round hammer strut and a black factory spring. I haven't tried the silver factory spring that Mercury sent me, yet.

it's hard to see but there is a little bit of space between the coils. Even more important, notice the spring goes all the way to the strut's shoulder.

 

[pasound]

Someone worked on that spring before. That's not a factory setup. Never seen anything like that on any j-frame I've ever owned. I'm surprised it fully cocks.

 

[Matt_X]

I agree with Retired W4. It's not that hard to remove the strut and main spring. Nor is it that hard to remove the sideplate. The time consuming part is setting up a space not lose parts etc, documenting and examining the situation.


Removing the rebound spring is a bit trickier and I have found the special tool helpful (but its still a bit tricky).


You tell us how deep you want to dive in.