Open Season on Drug Cartels

I am for a strong show of force against cartels, and gangs. We should brand them both as terrorists, and go after them. We can use the Monroe Doctrine as a basis for legitimacy. We did it during the Cuban Crisis.

I am sure we know where these cartels are. Time to fire up the drones. I don't want them captured and put in jail for the taxpayers to pay the ticket at 200K/person/year. As for gangs, they are domestic terrorists have at them too.
 
Problem is the cartels day to day boots on the ground are regular people being forced to organize the product. Not sure that killing "hostages" will do anything positive in the war on drugs. The kingpins have this pretty well worked out in their favor. The solution will need to be more creative than "scorched earth".
 
jpage said:
Controversial indeed. Legalization was tried here in Oregon, with disastrous results. The homeless population, and associated crime, increased exponentially almost overnight. The amount of illicit drugs (and suppliers) to supply the demand, increased as well. Because possesion of drugs such as heroin and meth was a misdemeanor, LE agencies used their time and budgets elsewhere.

With regards to taxation, the amount of illicit, un-taxed cannabis caused many "dispensaries" to operate at a loss, closing shop. Tax-returns were less than forecast. Users were given the option of treatment or a misdemeanor citation for possession of heroin, meth etc. , less than 100 users statewide requested treatment, as I recall.

The rate of societal-decay after legalization was alarming, to say the least. Oregon voters recently repealed legalization, so the situation may improve. Not sure what the answer is, I do know legalization is not the answer.
Click to expand...

Perhaps it is the way it was done. Portugal, which decriminalized drugs nearly two decades ago has had decent success in doing so. Yes, there are still people on drugs, but there are ALWAYS going to be people on drugs, just like there are always going to be alcoholics. Legalizing drugs gives you the opportunity to control the drugs, something we certainly cannot do now. And diverting the money used to pursue both user and seller to instead teach people the hazards of drug addiction, you will reduce the number of addicts. In Portugal, heroin use dropped from over 100,000 to 25,000. HIV infections dropped 90% and they experience less than 80 drug related deaths a year.

That is not to say that everything has been roses, and concerns remain today because time has eroded the funding Portugal was spending on the various programs but, they still have the lowest drug usage and drug related problems in Europe and vastly less than the US.
 
taz666 said:
Problem is the cartels day to day boots on the ground are regular people being forced to organize the product. Not sure that killing "hostages" will do anything positive in the war on drugs. The kingpins have this pretty well worked out in their favor. The solution will need to be more creative than "scorched earth".
Click to expand...

There will always be collateral damage. Best that can be done is to minimize that damage

If you want to make an omelet you have to break a few eggs
 
People often quote that money is the root of all evil. I believe the correct quote is the love of money is the root of all kinds of evil.

As long as there is a market someone will fulfill it legal or not because there are lots of souls who love money.

Until we can kill the market demand as mentioned above the problem will persist. I was a fan of legalization in my younger days, but unless you effectively give it away the greed of our own society in the form of taxation just makes the criminals more efficient. People are still buying pot on the streets because the criminals can sell it cheaper.

A tough problem and I think prohibition it the best-case study of how to create a criminal enterprise.
 
LVSteve said:
Just wait until an MS-13 member tries to mug somebody and the somebody finishes them off on the ground with a double tap to the head "Because the president said we are good to go on cartels". I can see certain DAs having a lot of fun with that. Goodness only knows where judges would go with jury directions.
Click to expand...

Back when VP Biden stated "just shoot thru the door with a shotgun" or words to that effect, I hear that defense did not go well in court for several who claimed it....:)

Larry
 
LVSteve said:
Just wait until an MS-13 member tries to mug somebody and the somebody finishes them off on the ground with a double tap to the head "Because the president said we are good to go on cartels". I can see certain DAs having a lot of fun with that. Goodness only knows where judges would go with jury directions.
Click to expand...

For clarity, this program has been around since the 1980s.
 
LVSteve said:
Just wait until an MS-13 member tries to mug somebody and the somebody finishes them off on the ground with a double tap to the head "Because the president said we are good to go on cartels". I can see certain DAs having a lot of fun with that. Goodness only knows where judges would go with jury directions.
Click to expand...

Just wait until the cartel extinguishes that "somebody's" immediate family and cousins and nephews and nieces, and anyone in the bloodline. I doubt that "letter" will cover that.
 
Living here in Colorado through the legalization of medical marijuana, then legalization of recreational marijuana, and now decriminalization of psychedelics and other substances, I have watched as the criminal producers and suppliers have adapted to beat state taxing authorities in the race for the big bucks.

Until the American public decides to deal decisively with the demand side there will always be suppliers willing to provide and take the profits.

I am beyond sick and tired of paying the costs for other peoples' little "social problems". Skyrocketing insurance rates due to street crime, burglary, theft, and emergency rooms overrun with overdoses. Public areas and retail store parking areas practically ruled by moochers, beggars, thieves, and other species of trash. Public schools out of control.

Deal with the cartels and drug dealers? Sure thing, locate them, identify them, whack them hard with no press releases or news reports. Easy enough to do, I suppose.

Dealing with doper kids and addicts, most of them with families and people who genuinely care about them? A tougher problem, legally, constitutionally, and morally.

I wish I had the answers.
 
Whack the cartels is great…but as long as the demand exists someone else will fill the vacuum…then it's a game of whack-a-mole.

More serious attempts at curbing demand needs to be done…but what? It's not like the dangers aren't known…it's not like the efforts to educate aren't being done.

I wish I had the answers.
 
If the government were to offer bounties I suspect a lot of lower ranking cartel members would be "cashing in", criminal gangs and organizations are not noted for their loyalty, taking care of their own, codes of conduct.
As Sammy the Bull said, "There were a hundred rules, we broke ninety nine of them."
 
Many of these people are dealt with by family members of citizens being killed. I doubt they ask for a reward. I doubt anyone ever hears about it.
When it gets personal, the gloves come off. Will this stop it? No.

People who want to get high will get it from somewhere.

I'll keep my thoughts on what to do to myself.
 
Lets be honest..Gangs in the US need to be dealt with militarily. They are at war with the government...but the big problem there is for a while it would be a racial type of war. We would have to be hard at war with our own people...murderous as they are
 
I have always liked the solution mentioned by Jeff Cooper and others
"Intercept the shipments, lace them with something nice and lethal, put them back on the street."
 
I do not pretend to have all the answers either, but it is more than clear that the decades, and dollars spent and current mindset of the War ON Drugs clearly has not worked.

It is time to try something new!! And new does not include building more prisons and filling them up. We do not need prisoners, we need results
 
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