Double Action with .357 Magnum

[-BTM-]

SA is for load development off a rest, pretty much

 

[StrawHat]

After shooting a couple hundred rounds through my serrated trigger 625-8 in rapid double action fashion during drills, my trigger finger was wanting the smooth trigger of my 686-6.

I was not aware the 625-8 had a serrated trigger. But, a Dremel tool, an abrasive wheel, some patience and a felt bob will remove those serrations. Back in the Stone Age, used to knock them off with files.

Here is what the trigger on my latest Model 25-2 looks like, now.

Kevin

 

[oink]

This thread got me thinking so I was trying to recall the qualification course of fire at my first agency, awhile back. I don't recall exactly what it was but this sounds like it:
(https://lecompetitions.nra.org/media/4725/rulebook.pdf)

7.10 NRA National Police Course B: Not used for National Records. This match is an aggregate of the following stages. 7-3

Stage 1: 7 yards, 12 shots double action standing without support. Time limit 20 seconds including time to reload.

Stage 2: 15 yards, 6 shots double action standing without support. Time limit 12 seconds.

Stage 3: 25 yards, 6 shots kneeling; 6 shots standing left hand with support from behind barricade, 6 shots standing right hand with support from behind barricade, all fired double action. Time limit 90 seconds, including time to reload.

Stage 4: 25 yards, 6 shots double action standing without support. Time limit 12 seconds.

Stage 5: 50 yards, 6 shots prone; 6 shots standing left hand with support from behind barricade; 6 shots standing right hand with support from behind barricade, all shots may be fired single or double action. Time limit 2 minutes including time to reload.

As I recall at the 50 prone wasn't required. For that part it was your choice.

All qualification was with wadcutters, usually full wadcutters although sometimes we had semiwadcutters which were greatly appreciated. For duty carry we could carry magnums in the gun if it was a magnum but reloads had to be 38 special. I think the theory was if you had to share ammo they wanted universal fit.

So yeah, we fired single action from the 50. I do still shoot single action if shooting distance. I'd shoot my 629 single at 100 yards for fun. Now I doubt I could make out the target over my sights at 100 yards. Actually I'd be a challange at 50. But yeah, any combat practice is all double action and 25 yards is plenty.

 

[Beju]

I was not aware the 625-8 had a serrated trigger.

It is a 625 JM, so that might be why. However, I'm at least the second owner, so I'm in not entirely sure.

 

[rwsmith]

I think a paper plate size.....

... group is good accuracy under those conditions and a 686 is just the tool to use for it. Most likely it's the shooter that makes the grade or not.

 

[BC38]

...Sometimes I wonder if “Three-T’s!” is just something that collectors love to say and type on the forum. Give me the smooth combat trigger and very regular hammer all day long.

IMO, the "three T's" are only a desirable feature on a dedicated TARGET-shooting gun.

For a defensive gun, or a daily use sidearm, not so much.

But not all guns are meant for defense. Some are for competition shooting, and some are just meant to be "range toys".

For example: I have a 29-3 Classic Hunter specifically designed and sold for silhouette target competition. Pretty nearly useless as a carry/self-defense gun. BUT, if you're a silhouette competitor, it's the cat's meow. It will put down a steel ram target at 200 yards every time (if you do your part).

Different strokes for different folks - or in this case, different guns for different uses.

 

[kelljor]

I shoot DA out to 10; more than that and my ****** eyes don't work that well. Conversly, from bad breath range to 5 I point or flash shoot. Not a one holer, but every round hits the bad guy (silhoutte target of course). FTIW I use a 442, 60 3" and 66 3" (2 and 7/8 or whatever it actually.

 

[Marlin57M]

I did over a hundred rounds of 357 Magnum double action on Sunday. I was getting at least some bullseyes from 15 yards. The guy with a range finder said it was 16 yards. I put Hogue Monogrips on my 686+ and 66 and wanted to see the recoil difference from the stock ones. And they did make a big difference.

The Model 617 that I bought last summer has been teaching me how to shoot double action. It is basically a 686 shrunk down to a K Frame and chambered in 22LR. It is one of the best purchases I have ever made. Plus, I get so much more affordable trigger time now. I rarely shoot single action anymore.

I’m fortunate to live close to a club that runs monthly PPC matches April - Oct and I compete in the stock revolver division using a Model 686 or, on occasion, a Model 28. For concealed carry division I’m using 2.5” Model 19 or Model 66. My understudy is the Model 617. PPC is great for honing your DA shooting skills plus teaching fast reloads with the proper use of speed loaders. If you can’t find PPC matches, look for ICORE matches.

 

[71vette]

It is a 625 JM, so that might be why. However, I'm at least the second owner, so I'm in not entirely sure.

I also have a 625-8 JM. Serrated combat trigger is factory. I haven’t messed with mine, but I did swap the factory “JM” stocks out. They didn’t work for me and I’m tempted to smooth out the trigger. It’s pretty sharp. What works for Jerry doesn’t seem to be the best fit for me. Love the big 45 revolver though!

Went with Ahrends r to s combats.

 

[Beju]

I also have a 625-8 JM. Serrated combat trigger is factory. I haven’t messed with mine, but I did swap the factory “JM” stocks out. They didn’t work for me and I’m tempted to smooth out the trigger. It’s pretty sharp. What works for Jerry doesn’t seem to be the best fit for me. Love the big 45 revolver though!

Good to know.

Mine was a relative's former competition gun with many thousands of rounds through it. Cylinder gap still measures within the wide end of modern factory spec, and accuracy still seems as good as I can manage with iron sights.

It came to me with the grooved Hogue rubber grip installed and the wooden grip in the box. I replaced the grooved Hogue grip with an ungrooved one that better fits my smedium hands.

 

[Doug M.]

At my academy, we shot handguns to the 50 yard line. Not hard at the time. We also shot shotguns to that distance, using slugs. Slugs were taught as the default ammo for shotguns; buck was limited purpose specialty ammo.

 

[Troutscout]

I only fire DA to maintain a proper and comfortable grip. I find that cocking the hammer with either my strong or support hand disrupts my grip and actually slows me down. With practice, I've learned just where that pre-hammer fall point is in DA and can hold there if I need more time to fine tune my aim.

 

[bigggbbruce]

Single action is for effect.

In the movies it's scarier to point a cocked gun at you than one that's not.

 

[biku324]

PPC was the training and qualification course for the NMSP through the mid-80s. DA at 7, 15, and 25 yards, then DA or SA at 50. The rare master shooters (3x timed scores of 97%) all used DA exclusively. Those were 38 wadcutters; changing to a 25 yard course with Federal 357B 125 grain JHP widened groups, but master shooters remained master shooters.

 

[SWFan27]

I bought a 617 ten shot 22LR revolver last year, and it has taught me how to shoot double action. It is extremely rare for me to shoot my 22 or my 357's single action these days. I can feel where I am at with my double action trigger pull, and when it is going to go bang. I can shoot bullseyes from 15 yards on a pretty consistent basis when shooting double action now.

 

[wheelyfun66]

Single action is for effect.

In the movies it's scarier to point a cocked gun at you than one that's not.

I think it's more the sound of the gun being cocked and the dramatic pause (and cheesy one-liner) that make the "single action" effect so common in movies.

 

[walkin' trails]

At my academy, we shot handguns to the 50 yard line. Not hard at the time. We also shot shotguns to that distance, using slugs. Slugs were taught as the default ammo for shotguns; buck was limited purpose specialty ammo.

Same experience with the 50 yard line. Two different agencies. Both allowed the use of single action fire at the 50, but everything 25 and in had to be DA. First academy was with a revolver, the second with an Sig P228.

I recall during time with the first agency, we only shot slug at 25, but that might have been a range master’s loose interpretation of the standards. 12 pellet buckshot was fired at the 7 more for familiarization than anything else. I recall one 870 that folks liked cause it had a Choate pistol grip stock and looked cool but also had a bent barrel. The bent barrel made it impossible to plant slugs anywhere near center mass. Those who did not like shooting shotguns always had to go a second or third time, and were always able to qualify after switching to an 18 inch tube with rifle sights.

 

[rockquarry]

I'm not criticizing those who generally or always shoot their revolvers double-action. I did that too for a long time, too, but later found there was so much more to revolver shooting than double-action practicing for concealed carry/ defensive use. I'd quickly become bored with nothing but double-action use.

Shooting bullseye style, one hand, single-action at 25 yds. (sometimes 50) really helps develop good shooting skills and is quite challenging but enjoyable. I shoot at paper targets with the smallest bullseye I can focus on without eyestrain. Larger bullseyes don't work well for me and groups enlarge considerably.

Shoot up close only for familiarization with point of impact. Close shooting won't help much in improving skills whether you're shooting single-action or double-action. Becoming a good bullseye shooter will help considerably with double-action shooting as well. It's also easy to revert to double-action shooting when desired.

It's fine to prepare for the big gunfight using double-action, but one might find there is much to be said for single-action shooting. No need to disparage single-action shooting if you haven't given it a fair trial. I'm still working on the skill part, but hope to be there someday.

Don't forget J-frame snub nose .38s; they're capable of much better 25 yard accuracy than many shooters realize. Granted, they are difficult to learn to shoot well, but once mastered, you'll be able to shoot any handgun well.

 

[jjfitch]

I only fire DA to maintain a proper and comfortable grip. I find that cocking the hammer with either my strong or support hand disrupts my grip and actually slows me down. With practice, I've learned just where that pre-hammer fall point is in DA and can hold there if I need more time to fine tune my aim.

I've shot D/A in competition for many years. You're right SA disrupts you're grip and sights. D/A allow staging the trigger press while getting that perfect sight picture and release! As an instructor i discurage S/A for those reasons.
My precision and combat revolvers are D/A only!

 

[rockquarry]

I've shot D/A in competition for many years. You're right SA disrupts you're grip and sights. D/A allow staging the trigger press while getting that perfect sight picture and release! As an instructor i discurage S/A for those reasons.
My precision and combat revolvers are D/A only!

Even very mild recoil is enough to disrupt sight picture and require adjustment with each shot fired, double-action or single-action.