So… is the Beretta M9 still the Worst?

Surprisingly, lots of worthwhile comments here, but seems like the Beretta vs. the 1911 make up the bulk of responses. Both are good guns. Neither are boat anchors, but some can't rise above that fad term. Neither gun is perfect, nor is anything else. Just based on the experience of this unskilled shooter, I found the the 1911 a difficult pistol to learn to shoot well, but it's possible with practice. The Beretta may be chambered for a lesser cartridge, but it remains a great pistol.

Now it's probably time for someone to taint the thread with the alleged merits of striker guns.
 
poledorus said:
Notwithstanding those slide defects on the early batches of Berettas, nostalgia for the M1911A1 explained much of the alleged 'hate' for the M9 back in the late 1980s.

I loved the 1911A1, and still do. And like just about everyone else back then, I complained mightily about the new sidearm, and for all the reasons cited above. But the M9 was capable of far better accuracy than those old .45 autos, which had suffered decades of abuse by soldiers, mother nature, and the odd shade-tree armorer. And when I was issued a Sig 226 in later years, I found I actually shot much better with the Beretta.

I currently own several 1911 Colts, and will eventually add an M9 Beretta to the collection. It was a very reliable firearm and earned a reputation as a highly effective service sidearm, like it or not.

Incidentally, I have heard some current soldiers waxing nostalgically about their M9 Berettas, much as my generation did about our 1911A1s. On balance, though, I think their complaints are far better grounded than ours were way back then.
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GI sights on a 1911 also leave a lot to be desired. The trigger pull is great and it points well, but it's hard to aim precisely.

My take on the M9: Most people hated them because of the heavy double action trigger. Most of their experience was also related to clapped out and well used range pistols. The CATM guns in the Air Force had a lot of hard miles on them so they weren't a great example. Before I went to Afghanistan I was issued a pistol from our Logistics folks which had far fewer rounds down it and was in much better shape. I shot it for my qualification prior to going over which allowed me to have full confidence in that pistol. As far as shootability, it points well, has low recoil, and the sights are quite good for precise shooting. The hard part of shooting well is really that first shot in double action which is a training issue more than a gun issue.

My take on the M18: trigger pull is okay. It's short and light so it's easier for a shooter to master. Grip texture is inadequate in hot weather conditions with sweaty hands, good luck if your hands are bloody. Sights are good for combat, but the front post is far too big for precise shooting at distance. The rear sight on a fairly new(this was 2022) CATM gun was loose by the time I finished shooting the course of fire which was 100 rounds. It was tight when we started and I regularly checked it throughout the course of fire. The sight loosening is a known issue and one of the other people on the range with me got hit in the forehead when their rear sight was ejected from the slide. We were also shooting frangibles which were fairly light compared to the standard 9mm NATO I fired the night before through my personal M18. The safety was an Army requirement and we were never directed to use it during the course of fire. It was common on the M9 course of fire to decock the pistol using the safety, put it back on fire, and then reholster.
 
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BTW, while the use of the M18 is "paused", there are still M9s (and Bianchi, Blackhawk, and Safariland rigs for them) still around and some are still qualified to carry them on duty some places. I saw a TSgt with one on base (Kirtland) after the accident at F.E. Warren.m9_serpa.webpumh_m9.jpg
 
When it comes to shooting centerfire more than 95% of the time I shoot a 1911. Feels good in my hand, can have the best trigger, is the most accurate. Once I was handed an M9 and told to shoot it and it shot well enough that got one for myself. When Beretta designed the M9, they must have had my twin as a hand model. That pistol feels better in my hand than anything I have ever held! Like it was custom made for me. But still, when it comes to competition shooting I take the 1911.
 
rockquarry said:
Surprisingly, lots of worthwhile comments here, but seems like the Beretta vs. the 1911 make up the bulk of responses. Both are good guns. Neither are boat anchors, but some can't rise above that fad term. Neither gun is perfect, nor is anything else. Just based on the experience of this unskilled shooter, I found the the 1911 a difficult pistol to learn to shoot well, but it's possible with practice. The Beretta may be chambered for a lesser cartridge, but it remains a great pistol.

Now it's probably time for someone to taint the thread with the alleged merits of striker guns.
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Ever wonder why Tier one units like Delta and the Ranger BN's use the G19?

Delta could use whatever pistol the wanted and they chose the Striker fired G19.

A consistent trigger pull...
Super reliable...
Lightweight...
Excellent magazines...
Good capacity...
can mount optics and lights...
Easily concealed for plainclothes work...
Accurate...
Boatload of holsters designed for it...
Simple design with minimal amount of parts, easy to maintain in the field...
Did I say super reliable...

Army just ordered more.... :cool:
 
No offense to anyone. But I wonder why people are trying to reinvent the wheel.

Glock set the standard many years ago. Others have desperately tried to catch them and keep up. Most haven’t.

Whether you like Glock or not is irrelevant. Their record speaks for itself.
 
I may sound like a Glock fan boy, but my experience is the are incredibly reliable. I have Glocks that I've shot thousands of rds. of cheap 115 grain steel cased Wolf and other cheap ammo thru, with just some oil on the receiver rails and the barrel hood and slide rail grooves.

Never have I experienced a malfunction. And then go right to 147 gr. HST.

And can shoot one ragged little hole at 7-10 yds.

And keep them all in the black at 25 yds on a standard 25 yd pistol target.

Its everything I expect from a handgun I'm staking my life with.
 
Some in the military have a way of getting what they want even after the govt gives them what they think they should have.

We went M9 in 1985. Then some went SIG P226. Then we bought M11s (P228) in 1992. Some bought HKs in 45. Some bought Glocks in 40/45/9. AFOSI went G19/26 after the rest of the USAF went M18. In 2021, four years after the M17/18 contract, the DOD awarded Glock a $15 million contract for about 9,000 new Glocks. That's called a hint. usaf_osi_glock.webpwant_got2.jpg
 
Kanewpadle said:
No offense to anyone. But I wonder why people are trying to reinvent the wheel.

Glock set the standard many years ago. Others have desperately tried to catch them and keep up. Most haven’t.

Whether you like Glock or not is irrelevant. Their record speaks for itself.
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It does. They respond to the market too. Why we have Gen 2-5 with 6 on the way. The market wanted rails for lights and ambi controls. Now it wants field strip w/o a trigger pull and more "modularity". Glock will give it to them eventually. While they are still Numero Uno they have lost big contacts to SIG (M17/18), Walther (P14/14K), and Canik (TP9 SF Elite-S) among others for a variety of reasons.

m18_usaf.jpgp14_p14k_walther.webp
elite_sf_safe.jpgelite_sf_safe_taf.jpg
 
I’ve always loved an M9. I wouldn’t own a P320, never have as I remember waaaaay back when it’s orig iteration was introduced as the P250. I had two buddies that bought them and hated them. I’m a Glock guy so I’m not anti-polymer pistol, but IMO Sig has fallen from grace since its German mfg days. But I digress, I’ve always liked the Beretta, aesthetically pleasing, reliable and accurate.
 
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I have considered a Beretta, but would only get the DAO version with RDS. 1) I am old, and a quality RDS is my friend. 2) The backwards operating safety/decocker is an abomination. The operation is backward from the proper design (1911 and others like that), is unnatural at best, and thanks to mom, my hands are too small to make that a good choice.
 
Harv 24 said:
Ever wonder why Tier one units like Delta and the Ranger BN's use the G19?

Delta could use whatever pistol the wanted and they chose the Striker fired G19.

A consistent trigger pull...
Super reliable...
Lightweight...
Excellent magazines...
Good capacity...
can mount optics and lights...
Easily concealed for plainclothes work...
Accurate...
Boatload of holsters designed for it...
Simple design with minimal amount of parts, easy to maintain in the field...
Did I say super reliable...

Army just ordered more.... :cool:
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And I thought and I stated there was no perfect gun...how could I have been so wrong? What is a Tier one unit? How about a Ranger BN?
 
SHODriver said:
GI sights on a 1911 also leave a lot to be desired. The trigger pull is great and it points well, but it's hard to aim precisely.

My take on the M9: Most people hated them because of the heavy double action trigger. Most of their experience was also related to clapped out and well used range pistols. The CATM guns in the Air Force had a lot of hard miles on them so they weren't a great example. Before I went to Afghanistan I was issued a pistol from our Logistics folks which had far fewer rounds down it and was in much better shape. I shot it for my qualification prior to going over which allowed me to have full confidence in that pistol. As far as shootability, it points well, has low recoil, and the sights are quite good for precise shooting. The hard part of shooting well is really that first shot in double action which is a training issue more than a gun issue.

My take on the M18: trigger pull is okay. It's short and light so it's easier for a shooter to master. Grip texture is inadequate in hot weather conditions with sweaty hands, good luck if your hands are bloody. Sights are good for combat, but the front post is far too big for precise shooting at distance. The rear sight on a fairly new(this was 2022) CATM gun was loose by the time I finished shooting the course of fire which was 100 rounds. It was tight when we started and I regularly checked it throughout the course of fire. The sight loosening is a known issue and one of the other people on the range with me got hit in the forehead when their rear sight was ejected from the slide. We were also shooting frangibles which were fairly light compared to the standard 9mm NATO I fired the night before through my personal M18. The safety was an Army requirement and we were never directed to use it during the course of fire. It was common on the M9 course of fire to decock the pistol using the safety, put it back on fire, and then reholster.
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Regarding the original GI sights...You get used to these if you do a lot of shooting and they work very well IF you're vision is good. No complaints from me, but if my vision deteriorated tomorrow, I'd get something with better sights.
 
I posted this recently in another thread. It is an AI generated answer to my question about accuracy specs when the 1911 was originally adopted by the US Military back in the day.
5” dispersion at 25 yards
10” dispersion at 50 yards.
Developments in firearms technology / design have certainly improved in the 114 years since adoption. Seems like comparing apples to oranges sometimes. Just saying-for what its worth
 
VaTom said:
I posted this recently in another thread. It is an AI generated answer to my question about accuracy specs when the 1911 was originally adopted by the US Military back in the day.
5” dispersion at 25 yards
10” dispersion at 50 yards.
Developments in firearms technology / design have certainly improved in the 114 years since adoption. Seems like comparing apples to oranges sometimes. Just saying-for what its worth
Click to expand...
I've seen those accuracy figures mentioned before and will assume they are correct, but...How many handgun shooters even shoot at 25 yards? How many handgun shooters can hold to 5" at 25 yards? There are no figures on this, but I'd guess no more than ten percent for each. What do others think on this? Regrettably, we are not a nation of handgun accuracy enthusiasts if distances are beyond about ten yards.
 
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Kanewpadle said:
No offense to anyone. But I wonder why people are trying to reinvent the wheel.

Glock set the standard many years ago. Others have desperately tried to catch them and keep up. Most haven’t.

Whether you like Glock or not is irrelevant. Their record speaks for itself.
Click to expand...
Glock is to the 21st century what the 1911 was to the 20th. I’m not a Glock fan but you have to be honest, they work, they are robust, easy to work on, can find parts at darn near every gas station and there are TONS of aftermarket support for them.

I wish the Army would go with the M&P but the Glock makes a lot of sense.

Someone earlier made a comment about the Ruger RXM… On paper that is very interesting…. you have hte modularity of the Sig, the robust design of the Glock and the industrial design / aftermarket support of Magpul.
 
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Steve_Revo_ said:
Glock is to the 21st century what the 1911 was to the 20th. I’m not a Glock fan but you have to be honest, they work, they are robust, easy to work on, can find parts at darn near every gas station and there are TONS of aftermarket support for them.

I wish the Army would go with the M&P but the Glock makes a lot of sense.

Someone earlier made a comment about the Ruger RXM… That is very interesting…. you have hte modularity of the Sig, the robust design of the Glock and the industrial design / aftermarket support of Magpul.
Click to expand...
I like the RXM. But it hasn’t proven itself yet. Only time will tell.
 
I used both the M1911A1 and the M9 on active duty. Had to qualify with both. Qualified Expert with both several times. I prefer the M1911A1. I own both, though the M1911A1 gets more use.
 
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