Banned Firearm

[Kinman]

It came to the club's attention the other day that a few of the pistol shooters at the indoor range that are usually involved with timed shooting events are using the Sig P320. I was not up to date on its issues and looked into it during the meeting. I figured if the IDPA banned it from any of their events that was good enough for me and I seconded a motion to remove it from range use until the issue was resolved. As unpopular as it may seem, our insurance liabilities are high as it is and we have lost our long time insurance agency because as they put it "insuring firing ranges is not in our personal interest." Currently the only other Firearm we have banned is anything that fires .50 BMG as well as anything full automatic which includes the mechanical assitance that fires more than one round per second. That is our range limit, double taps are not practiced as well as any firing from the holster, all shots are fired from the bench with one shot per second the maximum. We do have an action pistol league at the indoor range, what they do is their business.

 

[UncleEd]

Considering all the yahoos I've seen at ranges, indoor and outdoor, your range rules seem perfectly reasonable. And insurance restrictions are what they are.

 

[686PC]

2 weeks ago my club also implemented an "IMMEDIATE PROHIBITION/BAN of the presence and use of the Sig Sauer models P320, M-17, M-18 firearms, and all of their variants, (including, but not limited to, the Legion models), on ALL CLUB PROPERTY."

Sounds perfectly reasonable to me. I did not consider the insurance angle, but that makes sense.

 

[Nightowl]

I bought a M17 for my active duty grandson, it has only had a few hundred rounds through it. I had not heard of problems with the M17, but would like to know what they are!

 

[Onomea]

Nightowl, I own a P320 in the M18 configuration. The problem is the P320, including the M17 and M18 variants with manual safeties, have had a large (over 100) number of reports of "uncommanded discharges."

We have a couple of threads on this. The issue is all over the internet.

Seven or eight of these reports involve the military versions with manual safety. There is a report of an M18, safety on, firing in the holster of a civilian guard at a Marine base in Okinawa. The report by the Marines states that there were witnesses to this, and a video.

I'm not happy about it, but have put up my M18 for the time being.

 

[cherrypointmarine]

Our club put out an email stating that the 320 is not allowed on the property . Again , I can understand it from an insurance slant , but there's got to be more to this story . Granted I haven't been following this , only Sig I have is a 210 Target .

 

[oldbrownhat]

..., only Sig I have is a 210 Target .

Well, you're not suffering if that's your only Sig

Our (Canada) armed forces finally replaced their WWII-vintage BHPs with.... the Sig 320! Can't find it now but there was an article not long ago of them acknowledging reported AD issues with the 320 but as I recall they dismissed it as "a holster issue" and are keeping them. We'll see...

 

[LVSteve]

I bought a M17 for my active duty grandson, it has only had a few hundred rounds through it. I had not heard of problems with the M17, but would like to know what they are!

If you search the https://smith-wessonforum.com/forums/firearms-knives-other-brands-general-topics.89/ forum you will find quite a lot of comment on the issues with the Sig P320/M17/M18 design. Suffice to say, there is a large question mark over the type, and in these litigious days, that's something you don't need at your range.

 

[Puller]

I don't know, seems like internet hype is causing a lot of panic decisions. I recall similar overblown internet hysteria over .40 caliber Glock Kabooms. Don't own a Sig and only know what I've read about the problem, but the internet's primary purpose is this world is to make mountains out of mole hills so I think what is really happening is different than the hype.

 

[MP-5]

 

[MP-5]

 

[S&W Fan]

My range has also instituted a ban on the 320 plus the retail part of the business has pulled all the new ones and sent them back to Sig. I don't know what they did with the few used ones they had.
My older son has a specially marked M17 that Sig offered on his last/final deployment of his career with the combat patch and other markings. It's a commemoration as he also has a P14 Para Ordnance of all things from his first, 2006-2008. They both sit in his safe. He doesn't have faith in the M17 and the P14 is less than stellar even as a range gun.

 

[MP-5]

 

[GnarlsR2]

Last Saturday at the range I shot, for the first time, a P320.
Wow.... I can see why this is such a popular handgun.
It felt perfect in my size large glove hands.
The recoil was very manageable.
It was very accurate.
Of the 50+ firearms I've shot over the past 5 years, that P320 is a very fine handgun.

However.... my very first firearm, a 1978 Colt Mark IV Series 70, will always be my favorite handgun.

 

[gjgalligan]

I have a P320, had it for a few years. Never any sign of it being a problem at anytime. I see one poster mentioning it is the models with the manual safety that are the problem children, mine doesn't have that feature.
Just seem strange that it is only stories that say there is a problem but I have never heard of anybody that I know of in my circles that has any personal experience with it happening. I have not heard of any reports of at the club I belong to.

 

[Onomea]

Re P320s with manual safeties, the point I was making above is that all P320s, including those with manual safeties, unfortunately, are suspect. They all share the same Fire Control Unit (FCU).

 

[ColbyBruce]

"I recall similar overblown internet hysteria over .40 caliber Glock Kabooms"

Gen. 2 Glock models 22 & 23 actually did blow up. I witnessed a Glock 23 blow apart at an indoor range years ago.

My Sig P250sc has raised a few eyebrows at two different ranges causing the RO's to inform me the P320's were banned there. I politely explained how to do a GOOGLE search on the two models and kept on shooting. Grip modules/barrels/magazines are interchangeable between certain variations of both models but they are not the same guns.

 

[cadmike]

Our club in Scarborough has acknowledged the IDPA ban but has not outright banned the P320 as of yet.

 

[Goony]

I'd posted this in another thread, but it bears repeating here. The following agencies have now withdrawn the P320 from authorized use as a duty/training sidearm: San Antonio PD, Chicago PD, Oklahoma City PD, Oklahoma HP, San Francisco PD, Houston PD, Denver PD, Milwaukee PD, the National Law Enforcement Firearms Instructors Association, and the Washington State Criminal Justice Training Commission. I imagine that's not an exhaustive list. In addition, last month U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) issued an emergency, non-competitive requisition for Glock 19's to replace their P320's.

I don't suppose this mass switching out of the SIG's was done on a whim, there had to have been serious safety/liability concerns. The future of the platform may rest on what the military decides to do with their M17 and M18 variants. I do find it interesting that some of the above agencies traded in their P320's and that these were subsequently marketed to the general public.

 

[LVSteve]

"I recall similar overblown internet hysteria over .40 caliber Glock Kabooms"

Gen. 2 Glock models 22 & 23 actually did blow up. I witnessed a Glock 23 blow apart at an indoor range years ago.

My Sig P250sc has raised a few eyebrows at two different ranges causing the RO's to inform me the P320's were banned there. I politely explained how to do a GOOGLE search on the two models and kept on shooting. Grip modules/barrels/magazines are interchangeable between certain variations of both models but they are not the same guns.

Aahh, range officers, you gotta love 'em. Other jokes they tell are "Get that magazine out!" when you are shooting an FN-49 and "Dump the live rounds out the bottom" when you are shooting an 03A3 bolt gun with a blind magazine.