Sparks and Kramer

Whit

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I have, and really like, a Sparks 55BN. It is one of the most comfortable holsters I’ve ever worn. It is not quite as concealable as a pancake, but for me it works just fine for concealed carry.

That said, I have looked online at the Kramer Vertical Scabbard. It appears to be very similar to the 55BN. Does anyone have real world experience with the Kramer and can describe the differences and similarities? Thanks in advance for your help.
 
Whit,

I have several of the Kramer design, both scabbard and cross-draw. The Kramer uses horsehide which is thinner and stiffer. I have had two for more than 20 years with zero problems.

The only Sparks that I have had in my hands was a competition holster and did not compare to the Kramer models as they are EDC designed.

The Kramer design really pulls the butt into your side (not uncomfortable) with the 1911 & P7M13 that I carry.

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Good luck.
 

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I've got two Kramer OWB Scabbards but with the "FBI" Cant instead of the vertical. They are the Horsehide versions and are the best holsters I've ever owned! I also have Kramer Belts and Ammo/Magazine pouches in Horsehide as well.

Not cheap - but the best I know of an worth every penny!!

The Rig below is 15 years old and has been carried lots - but you would not know it by looking at it because they never wear out. I just use some Kiwi shoe polish once a year and I'm good to go!
 

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Sparks vs Kramer

I have the 55BN for a 1911 Gov and the Kramer Vertical Scabbard for the S&W M&P45. Both top quality gear, the main reason my agency went with the Kramer is the wait and deliverable quantity (500). Sparks is the almost original, Bruce Nelson design, that's where the BN comes from.
 
Bought a Kramer for my 520 when Dillon was selling them. Vertical, for a Mountain Gun (tapered barrel, like 520). Perfect, very stiff, no problem in actual use.
 
I have the 55BN for a 1911 Gov and the Kramer Vertical Scabbard for the S&W M&P45. Both top quality gear, the main reason my agency went with the Kramer is the wait and deliverable quantity (500). Sparks is the almost original, Bruce Nelson design, that's where the BN comes from.

Bruce and I knew each other back in the day; and just be aware that his original crossdraw he called his No. 1 that he claimed to have created in the late '60s:

1980 nelson (2).jpg

was derived from the much earlier (mid-1930s) Clark crossdraw called the No. 999:

1935 clark (2).jpg

1935 clark (1).jpg

Bruce really wasn't the originator of any of the designs that are credited to him, including the No. 1 as mentioned, the first Bianchi No. 19 (based on the Seventrees of the same year) and the Summer Special (ditto). His contributions are entirely legendary, promulgated by his friends from the '70s (that is, these designs all happened without him). Without Milt Sparks then copying Bruce's designs, originally and for years without permission; and then Milt's copies being given a big boost by Jeff Cooper (before Milt finally did get permission) who even liked the original Snick in Kydex; I doubt the average Joe would have heard of any of this.

Even his lesser-known Patriot:

nelson patriot (2).jpg

was straight from a design patent by Ed Clark's son Earl while with Bucheimer-Clark (which company never was any good at getting good patents or enforcing them, having invented the thumb-snap yet unable to prevent its widespread copying by Bianchi, et al.).

Nice guy, and a proven world-class shooter and hopefully a great drug interdiction agent, too; but he didn't do any of the things for holstory that are attributed to him by his friends.
 
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Red, the Clark crossdraw is visually reminiscent of the Hoyt crossdraws, albeit with a different spring configuration.
Another interesting aspect is the claim in the Clark advert that they shipped 800 shoulder holsters to the US Dept. Of Justice in the mid-1930s.
 
I have both Kramer and Sparks gear, and consider them to be first rate. My Kramer gear is a pocket holster for the sun-compact Glock, and I find it to be a great tool. I also have a couple of his MSP paddles - likewise. Find the design that seems to be closest to what you think you want, and buy with confidence.
 
Red, the Clark crossdraw is visually reminiscent of the Hoyt crossdraws, albeit with a different spring configuration.
Another interesting aspect is the claim in the Clark advert that they shipped 800 shoulder holsters to the US Dept. Of Justice in the mid-1930s.

Yes indeed, the Hoyt is similar and has a wing under the belt but lacked the slot; the Clark actually has the slot in the wing -- what today we call an 'outboard' or 'trailing' slot -- and Bruce is incorrectly credited with thinking of that. The Clark even appeared in the 1950s TV show Dragnet.

We do have images of DOJ agents actually wearing some of those very shoulder holsters. Turnerriver originally supplied me with Hoover's personal order for four of these Clark shoulder holsters and the image is dated of them wearing them for that year (it was not the FBI then; it was the BOI) early 1935.

Also, be aware that Hoyt and Clark were buds. Both were from KS and Hoyt's original company in '29/'30 was as a sales agent including for E.E. Clark; and it was at the very same time mid-'30s that they both made the switch from leaf springs to wire-form springs; the latter used in the Clark 999 and of course in Hoyt's famous forward draws which nevertheless are not proposed in his patent for the wireform version of the shoulder holster.

Soon afterwards, in the '40s, Berns-Martin's shoulder holster used a wireform spring inserted in the manner of the Hoyt (from the mouth end) instead of the leaf spring of its Speed holster for the belt.

Another view of the Clark 999, which originated the reinforced mouth of the holster later seen on Nelson and Sparks (and Bianchi) holsters; Brauer did the same with their crossdraw of the era.

nelson study (3).jpg

nelson study (4).jpg

I understand that Bruce's widow Sandy, a former president of NRA, has authorized copies of his holsters by a maker who has Bruce's patterns. I can't imagine what positive could be accomplished from a revival of what has been copied many times including/especially by Milt Sparks; but hopefully she is being paid royalties (which she deserves) because the Sparks company has tacitly acknowledged that Bruce was not paid for the copies of his designs by Milt or the successor company. That seems wrong to me.
 
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I have both, and they are equally excellent. You can order the 55BN in Horsehide, so ... I don't see/feel anything that sways me one way or the other over the two. Subjectively, I think the Sparks look a little nicer, but I think the Kramer appears more durable. Not sure either of this is really "true." I will say, the horsehide belt from Kramer is simply amazing.
 
I have them both but I would lean toward the Sparks. The Kramer horsehide will undoubtably last a lifetime but to me it is to hard, it reminds me of kydex. I just like a softer leather feel. I have one Kramer holster but 8-10 Sparks or El Paso Saddlery holsters. You can't go wrong with either one, it will just depend on how it feels to you.
Tim
 
I own 2 Kramer IWB #3 horsehyde holsters. Kramer holsters are top notch and by far my favorite over Sparks, Rosen, Galco or any others I have tried. Customer service is fantastic as well. 2 thumbs way up!
 
Not quite apples to apples but, I carried 1911's in Sparks Summer Specials for about 12 years and worn out 3-4 holsters during that time. When my agency switched to Glocks, I bought a Kramer IWB and wore the same holster for about 18 years before switching to Kydex. The Kramer holster is still serviceable and sitting in a box in my gun room.
 
I have both as well and find the fit is not as good on the Kramer holsters. Yes the horsehide is tougher but the Sparks products have a better overall fit and finish. If I were buying a new OWB pancake, I would go with TT Gunleather or Mitch Rosen
 
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