K and L frame Reinforced Holster options

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KYGlock

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I am a long time shooter, short time concealed carrier, and need some assistance. I recently acquired two El Paso Tortilla holsters for a K and N frame. These are OWB pancake style and have two belt slots And a thumb break.

When practicing drawing with these, with the holster positioned strong side at 9pm (lefty), I nearly pulled my pants over my head— Gun didn’t come out. I readjusted and found that maybe the two belt slots were pinching toward each other a little, and maybe the leather is a little soft and collapsed a little.

It occurred to me that this could happen naturally just from daily wear and movement, and could foul a draw.

Which leather holsters would you recommend with reinforced mouths? I’m open to OWB, IWB or shoulder options and advice on technique with the equipment I already have. What do y’all use?

Any advice on techniques or equipment is appreciated.
 
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If you have that much flex, the holster's too worn out or someone messed it up.

Holsters are very much a "personal preference" item. You can get all the recommendations in the world, but until you try it for yourself, you won't know if it really works for you. Trust me on this: I have something like 75-90 holsters I never use, all stored in plastic storage tubs, sorted by what type of gun they fit. I also have another tub of 30 or 40 favorites. I need to take a photo of this hoard, you guys won't believe how many I've got. It's crazy.

That said, you can't really go wrong with any quality maker's product. I suggest not spending more than $100 for the first one, though, because you still might end up not liking it. Nothing worse than spending a lot more and ending up having to sell it on the forum's "everything else" section.

Conversely, don't get a $15 cheapo. Those are glorified airsoft holsters. You don't want that.

Decide what design you think you'll like best. You're probably going to like the pancake the most, only because that seems to work for the greatest number of people. Try a DeSantis or a Galco. They mold a firm, solid platform with belt loops that flex a little for comfort, but don't collapse until they're either worn out or they get bent over too much by the user. Aker also makes a decent mid-priced item, as does Don Hume. All 4 of those makers have a wide variety with a few different versions of the pancake, so you can get with or without thumb snap and so on.

Once you've done your homework and have enough experience with daily carry, then you can move up to a Cadillac, like something from Red Nichols or Doc Barranti. Expensive, and darn well worth every penny, but like I said, if you just can't get comfortable with a design you aren't 100% positive works for you, you'll regret it.

So there ya go, my 50 cents' woth. Good luck!
 
Thanks very much! A lot of good advice there. Both holsters are brand new. I may give El Paso a call to see what they think. Beautiful work, but there’s definitely one position where that thing would give you the ol atomic wedgie from grade school before releasing the gun! Some one in the concealed carry area said corn starch as a release agent, and someone mentioned we 40. Seems like I shouldn’t have to do that, other than stretching a bit with the gun in there. Does anyone else break in a new holster using something like that?
 
To be honest, I've personally never had that problem unless the holster was not made for the gun I was trying to use in it. A good example is that some holsters for a couple SIG models will fit 3rd Gen S&W semi-autos quite nicely. Others will be just tight enough to grab the gun and make the draw difficult. Not trying to second-guess, but are you positive about your gun-holster combination?
One other question, as long as we're here: which exact gun-holster pair are we talking about? Might help to visualize it.
Rather than go further than my own "expertise" (which is strictly the "trial and error" method of buying, trying, and storing disappointments - you DON'T want to emulate that!) we've had several spirited discussions of holster break-in on the gun leather sub-forum right here. I really suggest reading every one of those. God Bless the guys trying to help in other parts of the forum, but we have the benefit of guys in the industry, builders and designers, that weigh in here with some IMO priceless advice.
 
I would suggest you wear them in. By that I mean wear them and practice drawing from them. They should break in and get easier with use.
I don't believe I want corn starch or WD40 in my holsters (to each his own) but one of the holster companies does make a product for this purpose, I have never used it and don't remember the name but maybe one of the others will.
 
bamabiker said:
I would suggest you wear them in. By that I mean wear them and practice drawing from them. They should break in and get easier with use.
I don't believe I want corn starch or WD40 in my holsters (to each his own) but one of the holster companies does make a product for this purpose, I have never used it and don't remember the name but maybe one of the others will.
Click to expand...

The product name is "Leather Lightning", by one of the better holster makers. I don't remember which one though.

Just did a search and the maker is Mitch Rosen. See here: Order Online | Mitch Rosen Extraordinary Gunleather
 
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Just wear it in,leather like any non plastic material will loosen up with time,I have a cheap Bianchi leather IWB that I brought for my M66 a couple months ago to use as a "desk" holster and when I got it it was as flat as a pancake now? It's molded to the K frame's shape.
 
I'm going to mention a few very basic items: Is the belt you're wearing the same width as the belt slots in the holster? Is the belt heavy enough to support the weight of the gun? You don't find actual gun belts at Wally World for $7.

Are the holsters molded to the firearm or does the holster have the basic shape and texture of a tortilla? Should be molded and the body of the holster should have some rigidity. El Paso used to be good, did you buy these new or used? If new, they may benefit from being wet molded to the gun. Put the gun in a tight plastic bag (WD 40 on the gun doesn't hurt), dunk the holster in warm water until soft, insert the gun and then mold the holster to the gun. Let dry with gun inside.

Finally, don't have the holster at 9, move it slightly back to ride at the flat of the body you'll find about 8:30 or so. At 9 body mechanics are working against you.
 
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Thanks for these replies. These are new holsters, ordered specifically for K and N frame Smiths. This style is not boned to the shape of the gun. Not to cause confusion but to show You the holster, the pic shows a 686 in the N frame holster. I did order a 4” Length for both, and the issue is happening with a 2.75” 66; I was told this would not matter, let me know what you think on this. I haven’t worn them much since receiving them a few months ago, but have stored a 4” K frame in the holster that I noted the issue with the other day.

ETA: I neglected to mention the belt is a nice stiff gun belt by Aker leather. Also, to the post below this one, I do tend to cinch the belt fairly tight, more so than when I’m wearing no gun, and I’m a skinny build. Maybe that’s a factor, will check that too!
 

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I am 73 yoa. I no longer carry a weapon in a "pancake style" holster. I did since Baker in the late 70s. I have to cinch my belt so tight now that it binds the holster and greatly restricts the draw. I have found this to be true with De Santis, Mitch Rosen, and Lobo.

I need to cinch my belt extremely tight to keep the weapon held up, and not pull my pants down. I now use an "Avenger" style holster made famous by Bianchi or an IWB also by Bianchi for concealment. I have no backside for a belt and rig to ride on. Old Man Syndrome.
 
One thing really sticks out in that picture: the extremely high ride. I expect that your body mechanics have some bearing with your issues. A possible contributor is that with ride height that high, the holster is depending upon the 4 inch barrel pressing the holster against the body. A shorter barrel doesn't give that support and the weight of the gun above the belt is pulling it away from the body, causing at least part of that sag.

You're learning why most of those who carry concealed have a box of holsters that didn't quite do what they wanted.
 
OK. With all due respect, do not put WD-40 anywhere near your holster. It's a lubricant for machinery and door locks, not a leather treatment. Heck, it's not even a very good one for your gun, much less a holster. It leaves a residue that hardens over time. Yuck. Bottom line in my own opinion: stay away from trying to lube with anything. There's no substitute for simply letting the holster conform to your gun on its own.

The closer to the front of your waist that you position a holster, the more difficulty you will have because of the cant or tilt of the holster. You're fighting against the angle that the gun rides at by doing so, because the front sight will "dig in" if your holster is tilted forward but your draw is more straight-up.

Another issue might be trying to move in an increasingly unnatural wrist angle as you draw up and forward. Try this: hold your hand the way you would grasp a gun a little above waist-level. Now move your arm upward and forward slowly and bend your hand downward at the same time as if pouring from a pitcher. That's what you're doing when you draw your gun from a canted holster. Does it feel natural? I suspect it doesn't.
As was mentioned, push it back some toward 8 o'clock so the draw is more in line with the angle built into your holster. See if that helps. Good luck!
 
Thanks very much for all the helpful information. Body mechanics could well be in play here, and I will definitely practice with these holsters as recommended in the previous post.

I guess there’s another question at this point (if my new holsters may become a part of the drawer full o’ forgotten holsters). Which holster do you guys use/recommend for carrying K and N frame revolvers?
 
Depends upon your build, how you dress, how concealed it has to be and other factors. Unless you're really active, a thumb break type holster is best suited for unconcealed carry and you wouldn't usually use a high ride for that purpose. Most concealment holsters use friction for retention. Widely spaced belt loops/slots do greatly help stability. What works for one of us may not work for thee.

Given a short barrel like you've got on a K frame, you need to look for a holster where the belt goes through the holster at about the mid point or rear of the trigger guard. This is so the mass of the frame is supported by the belt. This is going to probably require some wardrobe adaption.

Now, this brings up another issue. Since the barrel lies alongside the body and helps stabilize the holstered firearm, a 4 inch barrel really isn't much of an issue-unless you have a lot of short jackets.

N frame concealed? Maybe under a parka or a really, really loose jacket or shirt.

Concealment holsters for revolvers larger than J frames can be a major issue as the market is currently driven by semi-autos. The fact that you're a lefty doesn't help. You might check out Ken Null, his stuff is very high quality. Mitch Rosen also does good stuff, his 5JR might be what you're looking for.
 
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Here's my favorite pancake holster for a 3" K/L frame. It's a Bianchi I've had for years. Note the polish on the cylinder area, accomplished by my shirt or jacket rubbing against it for a long time...I think that's a wonderful enhancement.

 
NEVER use any sort of petroleum product on any leather gear. Regarding your question on recommended makers, really the best are Red Nichols, Kramer, Milt Sparks, Bob Mernickle and Tucker and Byrd. EPS is great as well. Surprised you're having issues, really. At any rate, all the makers I list make holsters of one style or another with reinforced mouths and of the best quality. My most recent acquisition is one of Red's holsters for 4" N frames and it's just amazing. Very well laid out. No extra bulk anywhere on it and great fit.
 
Hey KY, I just recognized one major issue that you're having. Probably the only issue. It was plain as day, and I missed it.

You said, " I did order a 4” Length for both, and the issue is happening with a 2.75” 66; I was told this would not matter, let me know what you think on this."

BINGO!
Get a holster that's the proper size AND BARREL LENGTH for your gun. The reason should be obvious: the 4" model holster clearly doesn't work with your 2 3/4" gun.
Problem solved, problem staying solved. :D

P.S. By the way, if the 4" holster works and feels fine with the 4" gun, get another one like it in that proper length. As I said in another post, the pancake design seems to work for the greatest number of users. And as another poster said, try to get something that has belt loops higher up on the holster body, which will bring the weight more in line with or below belt-level. The "ultra high-rides" that some makers have are all well and good for some purposes, such as a higher degree of concealability, but they also require more effort to draw. If you don't need the aggravation, stick with something lower.
I appreciate the opportunity to share my 40 years more-or-less of carrying daily for work and otherwise. I hope this all works well for you in the end.:)
 
Hello everyone, I wanted to say thanks a bunch for all the help and replies, even PMs on this topic. I've been a shooter for over 38 years now, but am new to carry. I thought I had done my homework, and have a good start, but all of this information is super helpful.

I did a little test today and wanted to report back to you.
A) 4 inch K frame in the K frame holster = same results, gun hangs on draw.

B) 66 2 3/4 inch or 686 L frame in the N frame holster = great result, releases like you would expect.

While the K frame is slightly loose in the N frame holster, it is not very loose like you may expect. I would trust the ride of the L frame in the N frame holster to carry, though the draw was a little sticky I feel it will smooth out.

C) 4 inch N frame in the N frame holster = hangs on draw

Conclusion of today's tests: I feel that these holsters need to be stretched a bit more, that maybe my choice of lining has changed the inside dimensions significantly, or that they were designed for different S&W models on the same frame. The N frame holster will be useful for the L and possibly K carry, but I can't use the K frame holster yet unless I can somehow stretch it.

Another note, I do not disparage EPS in any way by making this post, I think they do beautiful work.
 
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