Hoyt Breakfront Comments and Questions

I've had this holster for about 15-20 years, I think. Came across it again today and have been looking it over:







Note the markings on the back of the holster. W.C.P.D., at the top, clearly a police department. Under the logo and two patent numbers, "SW 66 4." I find it surprising that a specific model was imprinted, rather than simply "SW K 4." (That's a M10 HB in there.)

I am guessing that W.C.P.D. used 4" M66s and ordered for that model specifically from Hoyt, which then embossed them specifically for that model. I assume the '81" below the model number must be the year the WCPD's order for the holsters was fulfilled.

That sound right?

And I wonder what is with the two snaps — in the third pic only one is visible — on the back of the holster behind the belt loop?

The strap behind the hammer, holding the gun in the holster, can be released either by the snap on the strap on the front of the holster, or by the snap on the same strap behind the hammer (by pushing the strap it is attached to towards the body).

But I don't understand the function of the two snaps on the back of the holster behind the belt loop.

Anybody know?

I also think it interesting that the paper "Warning" label was never removed. It's too faded to read in its entirety but the first line says "the Holt holster is designed..." Second line ends with "...factory." Third line ends with "...Do NOT..." Fourth line is illegible. My guess is that the label says don't try to take the holster apart, or adjust the spring, which is set at the factory, as that will have adverse consequences.

I find it an interesting holster.

What do you guys think?

Copied from the Berns-Martin model ?

The thumb break was the release. To the best of my knowledge the strap on the front was supposed to be non functional and a decoy release to aid in defeating a gun grab. I never had a Hoyt but heard of them. I started with a Bianchi model 27 break front then switched to a Bianchi 2800 Judge which I carried until we went to Sig 226.

Thanks for the comments.

Interestingly, the snap on the front is functional. It will release with either snap/button. (And what about the two snaps behind the belt loop....)

Hoyt Holsters

In my opinion, the Hoyt was one of the best break front holsters available during the heyday of the revolver in law enforcement. I used one throughout my career. There were other break fronts of the same vein like the AE Nelson holsters out of Oregon that were good too.

At one time, my gun belt as well as other accessories were made by Hoyt. They were not off the shelf products but were made on order by departments and individual officers. I had them make me several holsters for 4" and 6" K Frames as well as a 2 1/2" K Frame for plain cloths work and N Frame revolvers too. I still have a few of them. In the 70s, they cost about $50 to $60 dollars each. As they were custom made per order, you could specify the cant and drop of the holster to fit your physic and preference.

Unlike your photo, my Hoyt holsters close all the way around the barrel and protect the revolver very well. They are fast to draw and in reality, the thumb strap is unnecessary as the revolver is held securely in place with cylinder indents and a very strong spring. You can do summersaults and other gymnastics without the thumb strap attached and the revolver will go nowhere until you draw it.

I carried my 4” 686 in that holster from 84-91, before transitioning to Sigs. The only snap that’s functional is the thumb break, the others are for looks.

Absolutely Loved that holster. Looked and functioned great. Also had one for a 2.5” 19/66. There have been many imposters, but nothing compares to the orginal Hoyt break front.

Scharfschuetzer said:

In my opinion, the Hoyt was one of the best holsters available during the heyday of the revolver in law enforcement. I used one throughout my career. There were other break fronts of the same vein like the AE Nelson holsters out of Oregon that were good too.

At one time, my gun belt as well as other accessories were made by Hoyt. They were not off the shelf products but were made on order by departments and individual officers. I had them make me several holsters for 4" and 6" K Frames as well as a 2 1/2" K Frame for plain cloths work and N Frame revolvers too. I still have a few of them. In the 70s, they cost about $50 to $60 dollars each. As they were custom made per order, you could specify the cant and drop of the holster to fit your physic and preference.

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There was another leather shop in Portland that made leather products for law enforcement. Stan Frisbee Leather. I, like just
about all other cops in the Portland metro area and beyond, used his products. All of my leather came from Stan. They were absolutely top quality. He made me a break front holster for my
Model 59 duty pistol. Very willing to do custom work.

I still have a pair of his sap gloves and a sap. Never had to use the sap but the gloves came in handy a few times.

Closest I can come to a Hoyt catalog is a page from the 1975 San Diego County Sheriff holster evaluation report in which Hoyt was the first choice but for the ability of the company - a virtual mom & pop operation - to make no more than 50 holsters a month. That dropped the Hoyt to number 4 after the Bianchi Judge, the Safety Speed break front (not the clam shell) and the Safariland 229.

The report is on the San Diego County web page in the section on Olympic great Bill McMillan who was a special deputy and instructor for many years until he was accidentally shot by an officer making a test run on a turning target assault course. Details for that on the web page too. The accident is sometimes inaccurately described; I first heard the incorrect version too.

One of THE BEST duty holsters ever made. I used one for my entire career when using the revolver. LASO issued Safety Speed front break for a period which were quite functional and terrific holsters. But most everyone bought the Hoyt if they could. I still have mine that I used with a Model 15 (a 788R) for many years until we transitioned to autoloaders.

I believe yours might have been made for a West Covina Police Officer. Carolee and Woody Hershman moved the Hoyt operation from Southern California to Coupeville, Washington in/around 1980 and continued producing duty holsters until they retired. I don't remember when that was. They are long ago out of business..... Carollee was the daughter (or Granddaughter.. I don't remember which) of Mr., Hoyt, the founder of Hoyt Holster Company. Brings a tear to my eye to remember going to the shop in Costa Mesa and ordering a holster from Carollee..... A long time ago and far, far away....

Aircrewman said:

One of THE BEST duty holsters ever made. I used one for my entire career when using the revolver. LASO issued Safety Speed front break for a period which were quite functional and terrific holsters. But most everyone bought the Hoyt if they could. I still have mine that I used with a Model 15 (a 788R) for many years until we transitioned to autoloaders.

I believe yours might have been made for a West Covina Police Officer. Carolee and Woody Hershman moved the Hoyt operation from Southern California to Coupeville, Washington in/around 1980 and continued producing duty holsters until they retired. I don't remember when that was. They are long ago out of business..... Carollee was the daughter (or Granddaughter.. I don't remember which) of Mr., Hoyt, the founder of Hoyt Holster Company. Brings a tear to my eye to remember going to the shop in Costa Mesa and ordering a holster from Carollee..... A long time ago and far, far away....

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Your history is very good. Carol Lee was Dick Hoyt's grand daughter, kind of -- she was the daughter of Dick's stepson. Husband Woody died in June of 2015. Carol Lee was b. in 1935 so there's a chance she is still living.

As good as the Hoyt forward draw is/was, and as strong as my affection is for it, it was vulnerable to a quick side-snatch; and the purpose of the one-way snaps in the thumbsnap was to defeat that grab. Without the strap the entire holster pulls open sideways and releases the revolver.

As for the three snaps on the thumbreak upright, I'm unable to see it well enough to have even realized that third snap was there; so now I'll expect that even if it was not snapped to the holster it was to prevent the upright from pivoting foward because it is trapped by the 'hanger' (what was known as a 'jacket style belt loop').

Only Hoyt and its copies, and Shoemaker, used a wireform inside the hanger; the rest of us used hardened steel plates on such as the 27 and the 2800. The best of ALL of them was a hooked steel plate as invented by Paul Boren who owned Safety Speed; solid, stable, strong yet inflexible in a gun grab.

WA was the final resting place for the Hoyt company. It began in Los Angeles and yes, it was 1980 that the Hershmans moved it all to WA where Dick Hoyt was still living.

I too failed to see the other snaps between the holster and hanger. I didn’t know that about the side snatch as noted by Red above. I switched Bianchi from the 27 to the 2800 due to being able to reholster one handed much more easily after fumbling to do so while struggling with suspects while wearing the 27. I was one of only a couple carrying the 2800. Several others wore the 27. Most wore a Jordan style holster favored and recommended by the firearms instructor. Having started my law enforcement career in CA I was a break front guy and the first to carry speedloaders - but was initially told I had to carry the 12 round loops for uniformity. I still have my duty rig and sometimes wear it while doing instruction. I wore it at an NRA Tactical Schooting course about 15-16 years ago with my model 19 and boy I got some looks. Good thing I had extra ammo for all the young cops who wanted to shoot the 19 after class each day (after I showed them how to load and handle it).

I appreciate all the knowledgeable comments, guys. Interesting stuff.

Here are a few more pictures to show the snap configuration better:







In the last pic, using a cork to hold the holster open, all three snaps behind the belt loop look can be seen. (I tried unsnapping the two closed/snapped snaps there to put a drop of oil on 'em, but they were too tight to open by hand, so for the the time being decide to let 'em be.) My conclusion as to their function is that, while secure when snapped, both pieces of safety strap are meant to be able to be removed entirely, leaving one with, essentially, this model (from SG-688's material above):



Above, Sharfshuetzer notes that Hoyt was, essentially, a custom holster maker. My guess is W.C.P.D. (likely West Covina PD, as Aircrewman explains), asked for this unique configuration, perhaps to have equipment uniformity for patrolmen and detectives, or, perhaps, for on and off duty use.

It seems to be a fairly unique holster with that snap configuration.

....

Scharfschuetzer said:

...Unlike your photo, my Hoyt holsters close all the way around the barrel and protect the revolver very well. ...

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Given my unfamiliarity with the holster, I tried to see if I could push the gun further into it. I can't. It is clearly as far in as it is designed to go.

• Does seem a bit unusual to be exposed like that. I wonder if this feature, like the snap configuration, is unique to the W.C.P.D. order as well? If so, what is the purpose? Faster draw/easier reholster? It is in there very securely though. That's a strong spring.

• In the ad above for the 888, what does "triple-action spring" mean? What are the three actions?

• I have not tried wearing this holster and experimenting with drawing and reholstering. How about one of you guys who used these breakfronts explaining that to us?

I suppose it c/b fair to call Hoyt a 'custom' holster maker in that ov all the makers who claimed to be 'custom', only Hoyt made them just for the one sale, unique from all others. Often their holsters even had the buyer's name stamped into them. Here's an image of just how thoroughly custom their products were in their shop; notice the notations pointing out what features to add/delete from that particular buyer's order:



The triple action spring was inserted into the uppermost edges of the holster layers, left unstitched for the purpose; then sewn and trimmed away:



Holstering is done this way, by resting the trigger guard in the mouth of the holster then snapping the muzzle rearwards into the holster itself:



The 'triple action' I expect was about the spring's principal bend being at the base of the trigger guard, then extending upwards then across the recoil shields and then returning downwards to close the forward opening. This gives a LOT of flexibility and low resistance to the drawing motion/effort vs say, the Model 27 that resists for security reasons.

The image that has been left 'attached' shows how a 'pull the dot' snap used on the Hoyts is distinguished from a standard action snap. That little tab, whether one is aware of it or not at the time, must hook under the pronounced ridge of the stud, then the snap is closed. That tab will then refuse to open from the opposite direction, adding security not only from an assault on the revolver but from snagging.

My department issued the Hoyt break-front holster with the Model 686 around 1985. I carried the gun and holster until 1988 when I opted for the Beretta 92FS at my own expense.

I believe the warning label on the back of the Hoyt holster was a caution against using revolvers with the wide target trigger. According to some, the wide trigger could be inadvertently trapped in the spring operated clamshell opening, causing accidental discharge when reholstering.

I also believe that this is the reason S&W deleted the .500" target trigger in favor of the .400" version. The .500" trigger extended outside the edge of the frame, whereas the .400" trigger was the same width as the frame.

rbmac52 said:

My department issued the Hoyt break-front holster with the Model 686 around 1985. I carried the gun and holster until 1988 when I opted for the Beretta 92FS at my own expense.

I believe the warning label on the back of the Hoyt holster was a caution against using revolvers with the wide target trigger. According to some, the wide trigger could be inadvertently trapped in the spring operated clamshell opening, causing accidental discharge when reholstering.

I also believe that this is the reason S&W deleted the .500" target trigger in favor of the .400" version. The .500" trigger extended outside the edge of the frame, whereas the .400" trigger was the same width as the frame.

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Yes, and no. The warning labels used by all gunleather makers of that era were originated by JB at Bianchi Holsters because of the proliferation of trigger shoes once used only on target pistols, and of grip adapters that interfered with the pocket in the spring and elastic belt and shoulder holsters. Here's the original, sighted word for word on Hoyts, DeSantis, Shoemaker, every player then:



In a lawsuit the plaintiff's lawyers would want the defendant holster maker to even make note of the font size and color; an effort to determine if the warning was adequate.

From newspaper reports it appears that Hoyt was hounded out of California by these kinds of tort lawsuits including gun grabs.

Thanks, Red, for the pic of how to holster a pistol with a Hoyt breakfront.



How about a description of how to draw properly? Seems to me, likely, that one grasps the grip and pushes out and downwards, outwards, rather than pulling up and then out as with traditional holsters...

That right? For those of you who used breakfronts, how did you like the draw?

The main point of the style, breakfront, is retention, right? For a street cop, avoiding a BG grabbing his weapon. Correct?

Fighting Leather: The Breakfront, Part I – RevolverGuy.Com

Fighting Leather: The Breakfront, Part II – RevolverGuy.Com

I used a "Berns-Martin" on duty for a long time (1960-1970).
In the late 1970s my agency adopted a plastic break front holster (Rogers ?) for then issue S&W Model 64. In a pursuit of a felony as the pursuit started up an on ramp of a Interstate highway the BG suddenly stopped, exited his vehicle and ran back to the officer's vehicle driver's window. In the sudden braking the officer's shotgun slid out of his reach. Attempting to draw his service revolver was un-successful due to the seat belt strapped over the front of the holster prevented this. The BG stuck a shotgun barrel inside the patrol car's window. The only defense the officer had was to push his self as far back in the seat as possible. The shotgun blast cut a strip of vest across his chest. Thankfully the BG fired only once and retreated back to his vehicle and sped away, later to be apprehended later.

That's a good read, rbmac52. Thanks.

Onomea said:

Thanks, Red, for the pic of how to holster a pistol with a Hoyt breakfront.



How about a description of how to draw properly? Seems to me, likely, that one grasps the grip and pushes out and downwards, outwards, rather than pulling up and then out as with traditional holsters...

That right? For those of you who used breakfronts, how did you like the draw?

The main point of the style, breakfront, is retention, right? For a street cop, avoiding a BG grabbing his weapon. Correct?

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Drawing the revolver is the same . That is, pulling forward on the grip causes the revolver to begin to exit and the grip then comes upwards and the barrel follows. Just as in the image of holstering.

Police holsters of the era were created to deal with the long barrels of the time. The Jewett clamshell, for example, the Berns-Martin speed holster, the Hoyt forward draw, even the crossdraws and the shoulder holsters: hoist that long barrel into action without needing to lift the long barrel up out of the mouth of the holster.

In theory that permitted the belt holsters to be high riding, such as the Berns-Martin. In practice the clamshell and the Hoyt were usually on extended drop swivels anyway!

It was the Audley holster that was explicitly for weapon retention, and it shot to fame beginning in 1920 with the murder of an officer with his own revolver in NYC. The race was on and didn't stop until the autos took over by 1990.