|
|
08-19-2023, 07:09 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Aug 2021
Location: Ohio
Posts: 669
Likes: 1,907
Liked 1,015 Times in 379 Posts
|
|
What separates the best holster craftsman from the rest?
What qualities or features do you think separates the best holsters from the rest?
Last edited by BabaBlueJay; 08-21-2023 at 10:56 PM.
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
08-19-2023, 07:35 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 545
Likes: 787
Liked 884 Times in 326 Posts
|
|
Bragging rights and prestige of ownership for a large part.
Galco, as does DeSantis, for example, makes very well made, serviceable, attractive, and long lasting holsters; but they don't come with the bragging rights that come along with "names", higher prices and long wait times.
Some of the "names," who I won't mention, have gone noticeably downhill, and live on past glory, while others such as Kramer are as great as always.
I've been carrying a handgun daily for 40 plus years, don't care what something costs one way or the other, and insist on quality, not "status".
Last edited by Oldsalt66; 08-19-2023 at 07:47 PM.
|
The Following 8 Users Like Post:
|
|
08-19-2023, 08:25 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 2,063
Likes: 108
Liked 2,128 Times in 971 Posts
|
|
I've had and handled numerous examples of Kramer in both leather, and horsehide. Probably dozens of such examples of Galco, albeit only cow leather. On merely those TWO brands, Galco would have a slight edge in appearance, like the finish. Kramer is going to have stiffer, stronger, leather, and probably the stitching, also. Their horsehide is like Kydex...only thicker being animal hide. If you wanna try a good mass-produced holster without paying the Galco-tax, LOL, try the Tagua line.
|
The Following 4 Users Like Post:
|
|
08-19-2023, 09:38 PM
|
|
SWCA Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Ashtabula County, Ohio
Posts: 6,036
Likes: 9,492
Liked 13,985 Times in 4,098 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by BabaBlueJay
…the great holster makers (I.E. Milt Sparks, Kramer, Lobo Leather, Nightengale, Mitch Rosen, El Paso Saddlery, etc...)
|
Sorry, El Paso does not belong in that group. Not sure about Nightengale either. To me, what separates the good from the rest? Do they listen to what you want! For example, I like fixed sighted revolvers. If a company tells me the same holster works for a Model 10 and a Model 19, I move on. I want a holster crafted for my particular model of revolver, not some generic bag that can carry any handgun.
If you want good leather, there are several great craftsmen on this forum. They can identify themselves, if they want to.
Kevin
__________________
Unshared knowledge is wasted.
|
The Following 4 Users Like Post:
|
|
08-19-2023, 11:02 PM
|
|
US Veteran
|
|
|
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: HEART of TEXAS
Posts: 557
Likes: 583
Liked 935 Times in 304 Posts
|
|
To answer the original question, Quality of leather , quality of stitching and functional design is what makes a great holster. My local saddle shop has one guy who only makes holsters and he is great. No famous name just lots of experience and quality leather.
__________________
V/r,
Markham
|
The Following 6 Users Like Post:
|
|
08-19-2023, 11:19 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,505
Likes: 1,859
Liked 7,772 Times in 2,132 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by BabaBlueJay
I have had a few holsters in my short few years carrying and I'm curious what some of the more experienced people on these forums thinking regards to what separates the great holster makers (I.E. Milt Sparks, Kramer, Lobo Leather, Nightengale, Mitch Rosen, El Paso Saddlery, etc...) From the rest of the pack. I've had a few Galco holsters that worked well for me in the past and here they seem to get a lot of hate. I ordered a Kramer IWB and an OWB from Lobo which I am very excited for as I do believe you get what you pay/wait for. That being said, what should I expect over a mass produced holster like Galco? From what I've heard here a lot of it deals with longevity (Kramer Horsehide lasts decades from what I've seen) or craftsmanship/innovation (Lobo has some of the most innovative and beautiful holster designs I've ever seen).
I hear people talk about "boning" and "stitch quality" a lot. I guess in a sentence, my question is essentially this. What makes these elite holster makers with long lead times stand apart from the rest in your experience?
|
One really has no choice but to choose by brand, eh, because one would have to have decades of experience to know good/better/best/superior/flawless. On my blog I repeat a list compiled by others that includes about 80 makers of which I recommend only four!
One could get bogged down in the details of construction and materials, as you've mentioned; but they have little to do with what you should be caring about which is WHAT IS THE BEST PERFORMING LEATHER HOLSTER FOR MY PISTOL WHEN CARRIED ON ME.
And you'll always be led astray by comments about 'quality'. All gunleather has 'a quality' but is it bad, good, great? Spend time at a shot-from-the-holster competition at a range and no one there will be able to tell you because they are being subjective.
I like Galco, with one caveat: PAY ATTENTION TO RIDE HEIGHT on the belt. A great holster will carry a revolver with its cylinder coplanar with the belt's width; and carry an auto with the second finger's knuckle just brushing the upper edge of the belt. Otherwise they seem to understand carry angle, leather, finishes, hardware, etc. pretty well.
__________________
Red Nichols The Holstorian
|
The Following 12 Users Like Post:
|
.357magger, 43cApologist, BabaBlueJay, Darkenfast, GerSan69, jem102, jimgoldth, K-22, mikerjf, NYlakesider, Papa Lee, robvious |
08-20-2023, 07:15 AM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: NY
Posts: 3,053
Likes: 2,278
Liked 5,615 Times in 2,025 Posts
|
|
Alessi Holsters is a local “institution”. I had a custom OWB holster made for my SP101 back in the mid to late 90s. It was expensive back then. I wore it for several yrs and never could figure out why it cost 3 times what an off the shelf holster cost. I have 2 friends that swear by them. They have extremely pricey shoulder rigs as well………. Nowadays I’m a DeSantis Belt Scabbard guy.
|
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
|
|
08-20-2023, 09:21 AM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Mojave Desert
Posts: 10,485
Likes: 18,228
Liked 24,636 Times in 6,945 Posts
|
|
Between the major holster manufacturers, it’s more about separating the buyer from his money. For me the point of diminishing return for a good holster is $120ish.
Most of my holsters are Galco, but I have several from Bianchi, Rosen and El Paso. Bang for my buck goes to to Galco, with Rosen and Bianchi a close second. El Paso is a quality holster, but I am not big on their looks, the main reason I don’t own a Simply Rugged is their aesthetics and one size fits all appearance. To my eye, they’re the Uncle Mikes of the leather holster world.
I also have a few from Warbird Leather for my 1911s, that are well made and easy on the eyes.
__________________
213th FBINA
Last edited by CH4; 08-20-2023 at 10:29 PM.
|
The Following 5 Users Like Post:
|
|
08-21-2023, 06:14 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Northern California
Posts: 6,674
Likes: 3,317
Liked 17,230 Times in 2,921 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by StrawHat
Sorry, El Paso does not belong in that group. Not sure about Nightengale either. To me, what separates the good from the rest? Do they listen to what you want! For example, I like fixed sighted revolvers. If a company tells me the same holster works for a Model 10 and a Model 19, I move on. I want a holster crafted for my particular model of revolver, not some generic bag that can carry any handgun.
If you want good leather, there are several great craftsmen on this forum. They can identify themselves, if they want to.
Kevin
|
Hi, Kevin. I never heard of Nightengale, but why shouldn’t EPS be on the list? Because they are considered more old west and historical or has quality diminished? I think a holster maker might get in trouble posting here because it might be considered self promotion or advertising that can get you reprimanded.
Last edited by Wyatt Burp; 08-21-2023 at 06:16 PM.
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
08-21-2023, 08:16 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2023
Posts: 876
Likes: 1,168
Liked 973 Times in 481 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by BabaBlueJay
I have had a few holsters in my short few years carrying and I'm curious what some of the more experienced people on these forums thinking regards to what separates the great holster makers (I.E. Milt Sparks, Kramer, Lobo Leather, Nightengale, Mitch Rosen, El Paso Saddlery, etc...) From the rest of the pack.
|
Reputation will do it. As a LEO we talked among ourselves, in the Locker Room, before the Internet. So holsters, on and off duty then were leather. A good quality holster is still good after 40+ years of service.
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
08-21-2023, 10:27 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Aug 2021
Location: Ohio
Posts: 669
Likes: 1,907
Liked 1,015 Times in 379 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by SGT ROCK 11B
Reputation will do it. As a LEO we talked among ourselves, in the Locker Room, before the Internet. So holsters, on and off duty then were leather. A good quality holster is still good after 40+ years of service.
|
This is sort of my thinking too. Other than fit (which is a must) durability would be my next most important quality. I think a holster that is still good after 40+ years of service is an excellent example of being the best of the best.
|
08-22-2023, 08:37 AM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 17,918
Likes: 7,917
Liked 26,045 Times in 8,778 Posts
|
|
The best holster craftsmen have an ethic higher than the average. They are willing to do whatever it takes to make a superior product regardless of the cost and difficulty. They use the very best materials, best methods, will not cut corners and will not send out a less than perfect product. There are few and far between as most in the business are making mass produced products that they are able to make a big profit on.
|
The Following 5 Users Like Post:
|
|
08-22-2023, 06:44 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Aug 2021
Location: Ohio
Posts: 669
Likes: 1,907
Liked 1,015 Times in 379 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by chief38
The best holster craftsmen have an ethic higher than the average. They are willing to do whatever it takes to make a superior product regardless of the cost and difficulty. They use the very best materials, best methods, will not cut corners and will not send out a less than perfect product. There are few and far between as most in the business are making mass produced products that they are able to make a big profit on.
|
Always know I am in for a treat when I see your comments. As usual this answer does not disappoint. Luckily I think I found two makers that fit this description. I prefer small, family owned makers because I know that care is put into every detail.
Last edited by BabaBlueJay; 08-23-2023 at 11:36 AM.
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
08-22-2023, 07:43 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Edmond, OK
Posts: 5,256
Likes: 1,140
Liked 6,682 Times in 2,489 Posts
|
|
I've had several Bianchi, Don Hume, and DeSantis, and for my needs, I consider them great quality at a very affordable price that will last a long time. I always wanted a fancy El Paso Saddlery rig with an engraved SAA .45 LC Bar-B-Q gun just for the looks, but then I come back to reality.
|
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
|
|
08-23-2023, 12:06 AM
|
|
SWCA Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Davidson County, NC
Posts: 2,043
Likes: 7,859
Liked 4,141 Times in 1,416 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by BabaBlueJay
What qualities or features do you think separates the best holsters from the rest?
|
In my opinion, the qualities are leather (I prefer full grain cowhide, vegetable tanned and vacuum dried if possible), sewing detail, finishing and boning (the process of molding the leather to perfectly fit and retain the firearm). Precise boning (which takes time and patience) makes the difference between “This model fits Glocks, Desert Eagles and most revolvers” and “This model will only fit one model gun and it isn’t coming out unless you draw it”.
I buy leather holsters from a local maker who’s a one man band. It takes a while but each holster is made, from leather cutting to packaging, by him. He stamps his name on it.
|
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
|
|
08-23-2023, 11:39 AM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Aug 2021
Location: Ohio
Posts: 669
Likes: 1,907
Liked 1,015 Times in 379 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeppo
In my opinion, the qualities are leather (I prefer full grain cowhide, vegetable tanned and vacuum dried if possible), sewing detail, finishing and boning (the process of molding the leather to perfectly fit and retain the firearm). Precise boning (which takes time and patience) makes the difference between “This model fits Glocks, Desert Eagles and most revolvers” and “This model will only fit one model gun and it isn’t coming out unless you draw it”.
I buy leather holsters from a local maker who’s a one man band. It takes a while but each holster is made, from leather cutting to packaging, by him. He stamps his name on it.
|
It would seem a common trend with the very best is being small one-man-band or family owned small businesses. I do agree that this tends to lead to more care going into each holster that leaves the workshop. Even with masterful boning work, my old habits of carrying OWB with a thumb strap led me to have one added anyways. Probably not needed with the elite holster makers, yet somehow I just cannot get over the mental block of wanting one to be absolutely sure.
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
08-23-2023, 01:32 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Wis
Posts: 439
Likes: 1,049
Liked 577 Times in 238 Posts
|
|
After buying a lot of different brands that didn't quite work. I have saved a lot of money by just ordering either a Kramer or a Milt Sparks right off the bat. Chest holster is Diamond D. I'm all done giving other holsters a chance. I don't need any more that only sort of work. {either ride at wrong height or wrong angle or to flimsy and poor retention etc etc etc}
|
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
|
|
08-24-2023, 08:17 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Aug 2021
Location: Ohio
Posts: 669
Likes: 1,907
Liked 1,015 Times in 379 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by RoyM52
After buying a lot of different brands that didn't quite work. I have saved a lot of money by just ordering either a Kramer or a Milt Sparks right off the bat. Chest holster is Diamond D. I'm all done giving other holsters a chance. I don't need any more that only sort of work. {either ride at wrong height or wrong angle or to flimsy and poor retention etc etc etc}
|
Kramer and Milt have quite the reputation that's for sure. I am not patient enough for Milt wait times but Kramer I found more reasonable. Never had a horsehide holster so I am excited for that one to come any week now.
|
09-01-2023, 04:13 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Apr 2023
Posts: 210
Likes: 1,197
Liked 455 Times in 110 Posts
|
|
I’m a Kramer man for sure. These shown and a new TRR8 being made now
|
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
|
|
09-01-2023, 04:25 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Eastern Nebraska
Posts: 3,985
Likes: 10,577
Liked 8,524 Times in 2,948 Posts
|
|
sadly or fortunately my late father did custom leatherwork... I prefer those that he made for me, or that came with his gun that I inherited... I do own "name brand makers" for things that I have accumulated since he passed, but his are my favorites... everything he made was fitted to the gun & the person... something name brands can't do...
|
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
|
|
09-01-2023, 06:27 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Aug 2021
Location: Ohio
Posts: 669
Likes: 1,907
Liked 1,015 Times in 379 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by robvious
sadly or fortunately my late father did custom leatherwork... I prefer those that he made for me, or that came with his gun that I inherited... I do own "name brand makers" for things that I have accumulated since he passed, but his are my favorites... everything he made was fitted to the gun & the person... something name brands can't do...
|
Your father sounds like an amazing guy. I am sure he is proud of you and is still watching out for you every time you carry his holsters. That is an incredible legacy, and I could not agree more with those being the very best for you.
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
09-01-2023, 11:06 PM
|
|
US Veteran
|
|
|
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Colorado
Posts: 7,542
Likes: 19,371
Liked 32,464 Times in 5,497 Posts
|
|
What separates the best leather holster craftsmen? Tall, slender, excellent taste, irresistible to women, and a truly outstanding sense of humor. The rest just seems to come naturally.
__________________
Life of the party until 8:00PM
|
The Following 11 Users Like Post:
|
.357magger, AlHunt, BabaBlueJay, bruce5781, Jeppo, Kansasgunner, Onomea, robvious, smitholdtimer, smitty_bs, SS336 |
09-02-2023, 08:10 AM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Eastern Nebraska
Posts: 3,985
Likes: 10,577
Liked 8,524 Times in 2,948 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by LoboGunLeather
What separates the best leather holster craftsmen? Tall, slender, excellent taste, irresistible to women, and a truly outstanding sense of humor. The rest just seems to come naturally.
|
so you knew my dad?lol
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
09-02-2023, 08:30 AM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Southeast Tennessee
Posts: 168
Likes: 4
Liked 225 Times in 83 Posts
|
|
Andrews, Grizzle, Sparks, Ritchie. Leather gear that will last for generations. Kirkpatrick, Palmetto…quickly approaching the excellence of the aforementioned makers.
Funny…people will spend big, big money for grips, optics, gizmos? And all kind of other jetsam for their sidearms, yet are so often willing to cut corners on the one item that keeps it secure and ready for use in a bad situation. Go figure…..
I refuse to compromise on my choice of holsters. All are bespoke and fitted to only the firearm it is meant to carry.
|
The Following 4 Users Like Post:
|
|
09-02-2023, 11:48 AM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Aug 2021
Location: Ohio
Posts: 669
Likes: 1,907
Liked 1,015 Times in 379 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by LoboGunLeather
What separates the best leather holster craftsmen? Tall, slender, excellent taste, irresistible to women, and a truly outstanding sense of humor. The rest just seems to come naturally.
|
You left out international man of mystery 😉
Last edited by BabaBlueJay; 09-02-2023 at 02:00 PM.
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
09-02-2023, 05:59 PM
|
|
US Veteran
|
|
|
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Colorado
Posts: 7,542
Likes: 19,371
Liked 32,464 Times in 5,497 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by BabaBlueJay
You left out international man of mystery 😉
|
Still working on that. It is on the schedule right after humility and modesty. I may get there eventually.
__________________
Life of the party until 8:00PM
|
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
|
|
09-02-2023, 08:18 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,505
Likes: 1,859
Liked 7,772 Times in 2,132 Posts
|
|
I'll say it again because it seems all have missed the point of my post: replies posted are focusing on brand because you have to -- until you KNOW what separates a great design, elegantly styled, sturdily constructed.
These days it depends on which designer of old they copied! All innovation in gunleather ceased in 1985. What we have today is workmanship only :-).
__________________
Red Nichols The Holstorian
|
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
|
|
09-05-2023, 04:46 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Central Oklahoma
Posts: 84
Likes: 114
Liked 543 Times in 58 Posts
|
|
Hey Mr. Nichols, sorry to disrupt the thread with this but it seems you've opted out of receiving personal messages.
Where can I find your blog and this list that you mention?
|
09-05-2023, 05:09 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,505
Likes: 1,859
Liked 7,772 Times in 2,132 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Burnston
Hey Mr. Nichols, sorry to disrupt the thread with this but it seems you've opted out of receiving personal messages.
Where can I find your blog and this list that you mention?
|
Sr. Google has always had the answer at hand for you: "red nichols holster blog"
__________________
Red Nichols The Holstorian
|
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
|
|
|
Posting Rules
|
|
|
|
|