686 German GSG9 Tactical Holsters

C

Caina-Longbranch Logistic

Joined
Oct 1, 2024
Messages
3
Reaction score
1
Location
Ottawa
As the German GSG9 carry the Smith & Wesson model 696 one would assume they have some of the best, most vetted operational experience holstering this revolver and any insight on the holsters use would be appreciated for a pending deployment (Hurry up and wait :o)). I understand they carry the 4" barrel gun but please comment if any different.

- Chest holster
- Shoulder Holster
- Belt Holster
- Thigh holster (assume may not be too popular due to the weight?)

Any ideas and insight would be appreciated
 
Last edited:
Register to hide this ad
This guy is using a thigh holster.

FWIW, I *hated* carrying a sidearm this way. I opted for a holster mounted to the front of my body armor instead.

tumblr_m7r1s7Emv21r9khx4o1_500.jpg
 
Frailer said:
This guy is using a thigh holster.

FWIW, I *hated* carrying a sidearm this way. I opted for a holster mounted to the front of my body armor instead.

tumblr_m7r1s7Emv21r9khx4o1_500.jpg
Click to expand...

You have my sympathy, as a designer/maker of gunleather! These abominations were created by Bill Rogers and his parent company Safariland -- because of conventional Sam Browne sets pressing on a nerve in the hips especially of women (causing a condition called 'meralgia paraesthetica). And so persuaded LEO agencies around the world to adopt them FOR THEIR OWN SELF INTEREST AT SAFARILAND because they couldn't find another better way. But you have pointed out the better way: LEO pistols s/b carried on the chest, at a 45 degree angle so that no one is ever muzzled.

Sure there will be good reasons why Safariland and even agencies would argue against chest carry. My position is that the argument was never had, any more than when Safariland eliminated its synthetic leather laminate on Kydes, any more than when it eliminated Kydex construction in favor of injection molding -- which then locked out all competition for government contracts of police safety equipment. Safariland OWNS that market according to research of contracts let in USA; and even here in Australia ALL agencies issue these Safariland thigh holsters.

It was Safariland who imposed their very poor solution to Glocks with lights mounted, and many unintentional shootings because the company released their designs without blocking access to the triggers. Took them years to 'fix' this because they didn't take responsibility, instead blaming everyone else.
 

Attachments

  • 2018 latimes story (1).jpg
    2018 latimes story (1).jpg
    19.4 KB · Views: 80
The 696 being a .44 Spl and no longer produced (unless you make a big order), I've got grave doubts that's the general issue sidearm. Certainly, the pix on the German language GSG9 website show no revolvers. Allegedly, non standard sidearms have been occasionally used for special purposes, so that's a possibility.

gsg9.de/Webs/GSG9/DE/Home/01-Die-GSG9/gsg9_node.html
 
Last edited:
The French are famous for using .357 Magnum revolvers for their GIGN teams.

Ulrich Wegener, the man who created GSG9 and its first Commander following the 1972 Summer Olympics terrorist killings used S&W revolvers including the Model 19.

Wegener certainly did not use a thigh holster. A picture of him wearing his S&W Model 19 is here: GSG 9 founding father passes at 88 | SOFREP

I believe the holster is the Lewis Police Special. His Model 19 had custom grips and it and his holster are in a museum in Bonn. Picture here: You Never Know Where They’ll Show Up | Soldier Systems Daily Soldier Systems Daily

Various videos I have seen on GSG9, documentaries and such, showed the guys using S&W K Frame .357 Magnums in either 2 1/2 inch or 4 inch, all blue, as well as HK P7, HK USP Compact, the Glock P9M (learn about that pistol here: [ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OmzkxP9FIMs[/ame] and similar 9mm pistols. The holsters they were using in the early days with revolvers were ordinary leather belt holsters, not thigh holsters, but later videos seem to show thigh holsters, but always with whatever 9mm pistols they were then using.

I have no knowledge that GSG9 ever used the 686, although anything is possible with these special units.
 
Last edited:
Update

rednichols said:
You have my sympathy, as a designer/maker of gunleather! These abominations were created by Bill Rogers and his parent company Safariland -- because of conventional Sam Browne sets pressing on a nerve in the hips especially of women (causing a condition called 'meralgia paraesthetica). And so persuaded LEO agencies around the world to adopt them FOR THEIR OWN SELF INTEREST AT SAFARILAND because they couldn't find another better way. But you have pointed out the better way: LEO pistols s/b carried on the chest, at a 45 degree angle so that no one is ever muzzled.

Sure there will be good reasons why Safariland and even agencies would argue against chest carry. My position is that the argument was never had, any more than when Safariland eliminated its synthetic leather laminate on Kydes, any more than when it eliminated Kydex construction in favor of injection molding -- which then locked out all competition for government contracts of police safety equipment. Safariland OWNS that market according to research of contracts let in USA; and even here in Australia ALL agencies issue these Safariland thigh holsters.

It was Safariland who imposed their very poor solution to Glocks with lights mounted, and many unintentional shootings because the company released their designs without blocking access to the triggers. Took them years to 'fix' this because they didn't take responsibility, instead blaming everyone else.
Click to expand...

Thank you al for your comments in trying to unravel this. The 686 is used and before that model 19 and 66 K Frames also used by US SOCOM. I believe the thinking is dead reliability and the punch of a 357. Although the 19 and 66 are nice guns, GSG-9 like other premier units practice, practice, practical and the K frame as nice as it is will not take a high-end operators daily use of 357 battering. Better to do this with the gun you will use at the moment of truth (686) and not have to switch and degrade instincts going from a L frame 686 to a K frame 19/66 in actual combat. I believe that is the GSG-9 thinking? It makes a lot of sense when life and death is judged by nano-seconds

Holster, I could see the weight of a 686 on the thigh throwing off balance so a chest rig makes sense. A cross draw shoulder holster could work as well a hip, but is the chest rig faster than shoulder or hip?. Any insight on others guns in assault entry and CQB- close quarter battle

Better to learn from GSG-9s perfected experiences than be zipped up in a bag
 
shawn mccarver said:
The French are famous for using .357 Magnum revolvers for their GIGN teams.

Ulrich Wegener, the man who created GSG9 and its first Commander following the 1972 Summer Olympics terrorist killings used S&W revolvers including the Model 19.

Wegener certainly did not use a thigh holster. A picture of him wearing his S&W Model 19 is here: GSG 9 founding father passes at 88 | SOFREP

I believe the holster is the Lewis Police Special. His Model 19 had custom grips and it and his holster are in a museum in Bonn. Picture here: You Never Know Where They’ll Show Up | Soldier Systems Daily Soldier Systems Daily
Click to expand...

The holster pictured is a Bucheimer-Clark with the Valencia mark which makes it 1970s. Which fits, because at Bianchi we were supplying Wegner in that era.

View attachment 700938
 

Attachments

  • b-c valencia (2).jpg
    b-c valencia (2).jpg
    200 KB · Views: 38
  • b-c valencia (1).jpg
    b-c valencia (1).jpg
    20.8 KB · Views: 48
Last edited:
rednichols said:
The holster pictured is a Bucheimer-Clark with the Valencia mark which makes it 1970s. Which fits, because at Bianchi we were supplying Wegner in that era.

View attachment 700938
Click to expand...

Thank you! That is excellent information!

LAPD officers seemed to wear the Lewis Police Special in cross draw, so assumed it was meant to be a cross draw. Was the Bucheimer-Clark in your photo designed for strong side, or is Wegener simply wearing it on the “wrong” side, or could either holster be worn as strong side or cross draw?

The B-C catalog description seems to indicate cross draw was the intended mode of carry.
 
Last edited:
A GSG-9 PR photo with a 2 1/2 inch M-19 wearing Mustang grips in a B-C front carried ...while rappelling!!

attachment.php


Wegner's Mustang grips oddly appear to have an inset quarter. I have pictures from that museum display with the holster displayed with the front facing the glass and with the back facing the glass. They must rotate it periodically.

attachment.php


In my area, spring holsters were mostly worn straight draw while what we lately call sportmen's holsters - Brauer Bros. - were usually cross draw in uniform. I've saved pictures of GSG-9 officers wearing them both ways.

(None of that current, of course.)
 

Attachments

  • GSG9 ad MP5 rapell 70s cr.jpeg
    GSG9 ad MP5 rapell 70s cr.jpeg
    54.9 KB · Views: 135
  • GSG9 Wegner et al ca 1978.jpeg
    GSG9 Wegner et al ca 1978.jpeg
    96.7 KB · Views: 49
  • GSG9 S&W M-19 w Bucheimer-Clark xdraw 77.jpg
    GSG9 S&W M-19 w Bucheimer-Clark xdraw 77.jpg
    79 KB · Views: 42
  • GSG9 Wegner S&W M-19 w Bucheimer-Clark museum 2 cr.jpg
    GSG9 Wegner S&W M-19 w Bucheimer-Clark museum 2 cr.jpg
    63.6 KB · Views: 144
Last edited:
SG-688 said:
A GSG-9 PR photo with a 2 1/2 inch M-19 wearing Mustang grips in a B-C front carried ...while rappelling!!

attachment.php


Wegner's Mustang grips oddly appear to have an inset quarter. I have pictures from that museum display with the holster displayed with the front facing the glass and with the back facing the glass. They must rotate it periodically.

attachment.php


In my area, spring holsters were mostly worn straight draw while what we lately call sportmen's holsters - Brauer Bros. - were usually cross draw in uniform. I've saved pictures of GSG-9 officers wearing them both ways.

(None of that current, of course.)
Click to expand...

Who is the 'we' who call the Brauers 'sportmen's holsters'? Not this particular 'we'.

The holsters you're showing are 2" and indeed are Bucheimer-Clark. To ward off any arguments from third parties, the B-C has the spring cover all the way up to the recoil shield of the revolver, but the earlier Clark and Lewis holsters have the spring cover sometimes just barely past the cylinder face. The B-C method makes the most sense from a retention point of view, the Lewis method for an easy draw.
 

Attachments

  • clark cd short revolver (1).jpg
    clark cd short revolver (1).jpg
    72.7 KB · Views: 23
  • cd da rev (21).jpg
    cd da rev (21).jpg
    41 KB · Views: 24
  • valencia j (24).jpg
    valencia j (24).jpg
    192.5 KB · Views: 23
Last edited:
SG-688 said:
A GSG-9 PR photo with a 2 1/2 inch M-19 wearing Mustang grips in a B-C front carried ...while rappelling!!

attachment.php


Wegner's Mustang grips oddly appear to have an inset quarter. I have pictures from that museum display with the holster displayed with the front facing the glass and with the back facing the glass. They must rotate it periodically.

attachment.php


In my area, spring holsters were mostly worn straight draw while what we lately call sportmen's holsters - Brauer Bros. - were usually cross draw in uniform. I've saved pictures of GSG-9 officers wearing them both ways.

(None of that current, of course.)
Click to expand...

My theory about Wegener’s B-C holster displayed in the museum is much more random. I think that someone who does not know about holsters cleans the display and puts the holster in the case with the back of the holster facing out sometimes. I cannot imagine why they would rotate the holster. :)
 
shawn mccarver said:
I cannot imagine why they would rotate the holster. :)
Click to expand...

The word "periodically" does imply greater organized action than I intended.

The position of the revolver changes slightly too. Your cleaning hypothesis is a good one.
 
Last edited:
Any insight on what GSG-9 is currently holstering their 686s in? I tried posting and update and thanking people for their input however, this is my first post on this forum and it was lost in the trail above. Here is my last words on the subject that might inspire more information:

Thank you al for your comments in trying to unravel this. The 686 is used and before that model 19 and 66 K Frames also used by US SOCOM. I believe the thinking is dead reliability and the punch of a 357. Although the 19 and 66 are nice guns, GSG-9 like other premier units practice, practice, practical and the K frame as nice as it is will not take a high-end operators daily use of 357 battering. Better to do this with the gun you will use at the moment of truth (686) and not have to switch and degrade instincts going from a L frame 686 to a K frame 19/66 in actual combat. I believe that is the GSG-9 thinking? It makes a lot of sense when life and death is judged by nano-seconds

Holster, I could see the weight of a 686 on the thigh throwing off balance so a chest rig makes sense. A cross draw shoulder holster could work as well a hip, but is the chest rig faster than shoulder or hip?. Any insight on others guns in assault entry and CQB- close quarter battle

Better to learn from GSG-9s perfected experiences than be zipped up in a bag
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

S
IWB holster for 640 no dash?
Replies
3
Views
873
URIT
U
J
Opinions on Diamond D Denali chest holster for 686 4 inch
Replies
15
Views
1K
michpatriot
M
gonzogeezer
Navy Victory issued to West German police: what holster?
Replies
8
Views
910
gonzogeezer
gonzogeezer
G
Thigh holster for Bodyguard 380?
Replies
6
Views
892
hardluk1
H
A
Late 19th/Early 20th Century Rubber Pocket Holsters
Replies
3
Views
765
Automatic
A

Latest posts

Back
Top