Uberti 1860 Army

A

anglaispierre

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Last year I bought this gun here in France. I have used it 4 or 5 times at the range. The last time I cleaned it I found that one of the barrel locking or locating pins had come out, and the other was loose. I couldn’t find the missing one, so I returned the gun to the shop where I bought it to buy a replacement and a couple of spares.

They thought there was a possible safety issue, so they kept the gun for the gunsmith to look at. That must be at least nearly 2 months ago. The last time I called in they told me hunting gun repairs were being given priority as the season was fast approaching (it actually started yesterday).

I am sure that there is no safety issue. Just replace the pin, re-assemble and start loading. It’s nice to know the shop are being cautious, but I am sure that there is no serious problem. I only wish they had told me it would take time as they had a backlog of repairs.

On 1 September I sent an e-mail to Uberti in Italy asking if this was a common problem, and asking if the pins were standard replacement items. I received an automated reply the same day. Since then nothing.

I also bought a stainless Pietta 1858 in 2006 and have had no problems at all with that gun. Remington clearly had a far better design than Colt, and Pietta have made a superb replica. I would imagine the Uberti version of that gun is equally good.

I just wondered if anyone else had had problems with the 1860, or indeed any of the Colts.
 
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If my understanding is correct, there is no real safety issue. Those pins fit into a recess in the hammer face to more or less "lock" the hammer between nipples and to keep the cylinder from accidently turning when being carried. Supposedly could carry with all 6 chambers loaded and capped that way. Personally I feel it is much safer just to load and cap 5 of the chambers and then carry with the hammer down on the EMPTY chamber. The 1860 Army will function just fine without those pins.
 
Evildog, I think he is referring to the pins on the front of the frame that engage the barrel, rather than the pins found on the rear of some cylinders used as a "safety" notch.

I have had the pins come out on a 1851 steel framed Pietta.
I simply used the red colored Loctite to secure it back in the frame, and have never had an issue since.

Just order a new pin, which can be had here through VTI gun parts.

Here is a link to the 1860 Army page of the Uberti at VTI:
http://www.vtigunparts.com/store/shopdisplayproducts.asp?id=15&cat=Uberti+1860+Army
Part #23, and they are $1.75 US plus shipping.

I sincerely doubt that you would have a problem ordering this part internationally, since they are only pins- which could be for anything. If you do have trouble, a good gunsmith should have had this taken care of with nothing more than some steel rod, hardened if possible, and cut to the correct length and installed.

Once you get them, gently hammer it into place after coating it with Loctite. Just be certain to wipe any excess off the outside of the pin.

If they cannot ship them to you, there should be a Uberti parts distributor around France or Italy that should.


I take it that it would be a "faux pax" to obtain a Kirst or R&D cartridge conversion cylinder in .45 Schofield or .44 Colt in France for that revolver without paperwork? I just ordered one myself after shooting one my friend had this past weekend.
 
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To simpify matters, the "pin" that holds the barrel on is known as a "barrel wedge".
 
locking pins

Andy got it. I agree with what you say. If I don't have any luck I will order from VTI.

I am not talking about the wedge that holds the barrel to the frame, but the pins that stop it turning. They are so small, it seems silly that the shop that sold the gun can't just replace the missing one. Evil is talking about something else. Thanks anyway you guys.

As to the conversion, I would love to have one, but that changes the nature of the gun, and its classification. As a black powder replica I needed an electricity bill to show that I live in France and ID. For a Category 4 revolver I have to go through loads of time consuming formalites. I assume the same applies for a conversion.

If someone was to send me one, I would be pleased to accept it and pay. Just as a matter of interest, how much are they?
 
anglaispierre.... I still can't envision the pins that you are talking about. The "pin" that stops the cylinder from turning is actually a rectangular looking piece of metal that rises from the bottom of the frame to engage the rectangular cuts in the side of the cylinder.... it is called a "bolt" and is #12 in this diagram. (The diagram is actually an 1851 Navy but the mechanics are pretty much the same.)

4180z1860ARMY.jpg


The cylinder pins I was originally referencing are #41.

Which pins do you mean?

Oops, just went back to your original post and noticed you had said "barrel locking pins". Those would be #23 in the diagram. If nothing else you could make them yourself out of a proper diameter nail. Glue in place with Loc-Tite or epoxy.
 
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"Kirst Konverter" is a 5-shot .45 Schofield conversion for the 1860 Army.

Kirst Cartridge Konverter for Pietta 1860 45 Schofield Cowboy Gun

You can use a Dremel tool and cut/file the frame out on the right side and use the loading gate with the Kirst Konverter if you buy the ejector that replaces the loading gate:
Kirst Cartridge Konverter Ejector Assembly ONLY for Uberti 1851 Percussion Cowboy Gun

The R&D conversion cylinder is a simple drop in and doesn't have a loading gate.
R&D Cartridge Conversion Cylinder Engraved for 1860 Pietta Cowboy Gun in 45 Long Colt

Both of them usually need just a bit of filing with a needle file on the ratchets to fit in the gun- just like fitting another percussion cylinder.

I wouldn't recommend trying to get this shipped from the US to France...US customs would likely get it if the shipper wasn't up on the laws of the "international transport of arms act" or something like that. :( Also, the shipper would likely have a knock on his door from the US State Department or Commerce Department if laws weren't followed.

I do believe that Brownells sells these cylinders, and they do more international shipping of gun parts than any other company in the US- they can answer the question if they can ship that to you.
 
I have a Remington and a Colt 1860 Army (we never did buy Uberti), and I personally like the Colt better than the Remington, myself. The Remington is more apt to jam.
 
Hey! I bet he means #23 in your diagram. I forgot about those myself!
 
I can tell you what I think of Uberti after the 5 month ordeal of what I had with my Dragoon. I purchased it brand new, and then the gun would not, and I mean would not come apart. The barrel wedge would come out, but you could not separate the barrel from the frame to clean the gun. So, I sent the gun back to Uberty, 5 months went by, when I got the gun back, the paperwork stated that "the owner needs to read the manual per method of disassembly". They touched nothing. I called them, I was told over the phone how to take the gun apart, and then told by the tech to use the rammer until the gun comes apart, or the rammer breaks in which case they would replace that. So I told the guy I was not about to break my own gun, and I sent it back. A month or so later, the gun came back, nothing was done, again a note saying "suggest owner reads manual per disassembly". No matter how many times I told the people at uberti the issues, and the fact that I had been owning and shooting black powder revolvers since I was 18, it didn't matter. So I turned the gun over to my local Smith, who told me after he worked on it that the pins where the frame met the barrel were too big, and the barrel wedge was also slightly oversized. But after Uberti not once, but twice, couldn't fix their own gun, and then essentially told me that I didn't know what I was doing, I wasn't about to keep their gun. As far as Pietta guns, I have had several, never a problem with any of those. In all fairness though, my Uberti Walker never gave me any trouble. But I have found that I like Pietta revolvers and Pedersoli or Zoli rifles.
 
That's right - #23 in diagram.
Vegetaman - my Remington hardly ever jams but the Uberti always does unless I hold it upright as I cock it after every shot.

Evil Dog - glad you found it.

Andy - thanks for all the info.
 
anglaispierre-

I thought you meant No. 23...

It's a poor gunsmith who can't fix that, and quickly! The comments here should fix that.

In original use, in the US Civil War, the Remington had a reputation for gumming up sooner than the Colt, but it may have taken several cylinders fired to cause that. I'm trying to learn more about that.

The solid Remington frame was certainly stronger, and the Army insisted on that in their new revolver in 1873.

Colts were held in high esteem, though, and were the most mentioned brand, from what I've seen. Col. John S. Mosby (CSA) mentioned the .44 Colts several times in his memoirs, but not other brands, although his command probably encountered them.

I have a Uberti 1860 Army .44, and it is better made than my Pietta Remington .44. But I have no easy access to black powder, so they are mainly collectors items, in my case.

On another matter, while we have someone in France to answer, do you see many Ruger revolvers in police service there? Someone on a Ruger forum asked that, but got mostly negative answers about the French people. I understand that both the SP-101 and the GP -100 are used to a considerable degree, in addition to Manurhin making a spin-off of the older Security-Six. (This is NOT their famed MR-73.)
 
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anglaispierre said:
That's right - #23 in diagram.
Vegetaman - my Remington hardly ever jams but the Uberti always does unless I hold it upright as I cock it after every shot.
Click to expand...

The Remington seems to jam with blown pistol caps that fall down behind the cylinder. The Colt seems to not have this problem, in my experience. But, I do not own an Uberti, either.
 
Texas Star said:
anglaispierre-




On another matter, while we have someone in France to answer, do you see many Ruger revolvers in police service there? Someone on a Ruger forum asked that, but got mostly negative answers about the French people. I understand that both the SP-101 and the GP -100 are used to a considerable degree, in addition to Manurhin making a spin-off of the older Security-Six. (This is NOT their famed MR-73.)
Click to expand...

Have never seen any revolvers. Gendarmes and Customs all have semi-autos. One I spoke to a couple of days ago had a Sig Sauer, but I am sure that one who came to my house one time had a Glock. I live in a rural area, so I can't comment on what they have in large towns, but whenever I leave France or return Customs have semi-autos in the ports/ferry terminals.
 
Uberti sent me a number of replacement pins direct from Italy. I was able to shoot the gun this morning. It shoots very high, so I have to aim very low on the target, about 10" below the bull at 25 yards.

I did contact VTI who confirmed they could ship replacement pins to me in France. I have saved their address for future use.
 
anglaispierre , I have several reproduction revolvers from different manufacturers. Every one shoots high out of the box. My understanding is that the guns dimensions are copied from originals and that Colt and Remington sighted their guns in at 50 yards. I have had good luck using silver solder to build up the front sight. It's a little tricky and the heat needed to melt the solder usually messes up the bluing on the end of the barrel. Since mine are shooters I just touch them up with cold blue and keep on going. If you want to keep the gun as nice as possible it's probably better to leave it alone.
 
Rather than silver solder, it would probably be a bit easier to build up the front sight a bit with JB Weld.
 
I have a second gen Colt 1860 army that shot way high. Had a smith install a nice and tall new front sight that I call the shark fin! Shoots to point of aim now. As far as reliabilty goes, the Army has been trouble free but I have a Colt second gen 1861 Navy that basicly fell apart before I got two cylinders full out of it. Sent it back to Colt with a note stateing that this revolver was to be shot and not just looked at. It's fine after Colt sent it back but the pity of it is that it shot to point of aim before the new hammer (one of many new parts) was installed, now it's the normal way high.
 
Can also deepen the hammer notch a bit with a dremel tool cut off wheel, it don't hurt none.:cool: or heaven help us, a old fashion hack saw to lower the POI.
 
I used to shoot the cap&ball revolvers a lot.Today,I have and use a Uberti made Colt second model dragoon which I will keep.The Colt percussion revolver design (which I prefer) has it's quirks,which I suppose may be part of it's charm.

Among several other of it's idiosyncrasies,One of the pins you refer to can quite commonly slip out when stripping the gun or on occasion wedge in the opposing hole in the barrel unit when slightly oversized.These pins are press fitted in their recess and sometimes the fit will be either too tight in one or too loose in one hole or the other.I've had more than one come out while dissasemblying.

Repairs of this nature are very easy and only require a modest amount of gunsmith skill.

Two problems noted are common with most of the cap&ball revolvers such as hitting high on target and getting a jam from fired cap debris.

Another very common quirk is for it's loading lever to drop during recoil.This is usually because the notch catch is slipping and is very easy to solve with a few strokes of a needle file.Sometimes it will be because the spring is not strong enough in which case a small wedge installed behind the spring will normally work very well.


If you ever have another problem with seperating the barrel unit from the receiver,place a piece of leather between rammer and cylinder and use a bit more force when pushing the rammer against the cylinder face.It should come loose.
 
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