I was reading one of the articles about the US battle in Afghanistan where a couple of the M4 rifles and a 249 SAW failed and it blamed on the heat by the soldiers.

I know and understand that metal will expand when it get hot.

I know this firsthand because I had a firearm fail me because of heat. A first year production 1897 Winchester that I was firing at the range failed when the metal expanded to the point the action wouldn't work after 98 rounds of light loads shooting some skeet on a very hot day. The barrel and action had gotten so hot you couldn't touch it without getting burned- no, I wasn't using blackpowder at the time either. After it cooled down, it was fine.

One of the articles stated the fact that an M4 shouldn't need any maintenance or cleaning and should have no stoppages until it has fired at least 300 rounds.

300 rounds? That's no ammuntion at all!

I'm just wondering if extreme heat does cause guns to quit working due to metal expansion. What does the surface tempature of a "black rifle" get to on a 100 degree day with the sun shinning on it? Clearly, it won't get cool down fast with the ambient temp being that hot.


Anyway, this is a discussion on heat, not whether the M4 is good or not. Opinions?

Gotta head in to the meeting house now.
Mrs. is getting upset.

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Lost it all in a boat accident

I guess never say never. But I have never had one fail because of heat and I have gotten several M249's, M60'S, M16 A1 and A2's. M2's and an M9 very hot. very very hot. I have personally seen M16's fired to a point where the hand guards melted to the heat Shields same with the 249. Had to replace 4 heat Shields on 249's and take a butt chewing for allowing it to happen. I fired my personal Beretta 92 until I could no longer hold or load it it was so hot. It now shoots better than it ever has.

Not going to say it can't happen but I have never seen it. with any of the above mentioned weapons.

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SC Army National Guard

I shot an M60 in Vietnam. Some times when they were trying to break the perimeter we would shoot and have some one pour motor oil on the barrel to keep it cool. it would flame up. One guy in the A Shau Valley almost melted the barrel on his M60. Never saw one fail due to heat, now double feeding was another storry.

Andy, I was just reading a similar story and I will link it here for others. Good post.
Weapons failed US troops during Afghan firefight - Yahoo! News

I have a hard time thinking heat. I think clean. There is clean and then there is clean. Too much breakfree not enough breakfree? During qualification I have seen people use spray bottles on their rifle to lube it. Way too much especially in the sand box. I use just enough break free in the bolt to lube it NOT on the bolt. There are two small holes in the bolt carrier that I inject a little break free into directly onto the gas rings. It will then migrate onto the cam pin after working the charging handle a few times. This has served me well in the 25 yrs of service. the only problems I have are bad mags. When my weapon jams I change the mag and the jamming stops. I have seen newer M16 that require more lube during a break in. But once it is broken in it takes very little lube to keep it running. And that is true with all military and civilian weapons.

Now let me clarify this, I have not been deployed and my unit still uses the M16 A2. I have my own M-4 type and no problems to date. We qualify at FT Jackson (plenty of sand) and I fired many blanks at Ft. Irwin CA at the NTC in 2000 and had no problems. Egypt, bright star w/no issues.

Remember that is my non deployed 2 cents worth.

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SC Army National Guard

Well, maybe the heat itself didn't do anything to the metal, but it might do something to the lubes and cleaners used on them. How many gun oil companies test their oils to see if they still lubricate or protect at much higher than normal temperatures?

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Lost it all in a boat accident