Just for clarification, TN doesn't have a CCW. We have a HCP (Handgun Carry Permit). It's strictly a "carry" permit, whether you choose to open carry or conceal.

I think open carry is just an invite for the bad guys to come up behind you and take your gun!
For example -Look at all the LEO's losing thier weapons to bad guys daily!
It's a shame a cop can't show his face without someone taking his gun away from him.

"It is a defense to unlawful carrying if the possession or carrying was: Of an unloaded rifle, shotgun or handgun not concealed on or about the person and the ammunition for the weapon was not in the immediate vicinity of the person or weapon."

And yes... you need a "Handgun Carry Permit" for the "concealed" part. Handgun or whatever.

What? What does a "defense for unlawful carrying" code have to do with open or concealed carry in TN? You lost me.

My only point was if you "carry" a handgun in TN, whether open or concealed, you have to have the carry permit. There is no requirement to conceal.

The code you just quoted simply means you can transport a firearm without having a permit if you don't have it on your person, and the ammo is stored separately. Thats a whole different conversation though.

Are you serious?

Do you have any documentation of all of these LEOs losing their weapons every day, much less a citizen exercising his right to carry a weapon openly losing his.

bob

I feel 'open carry' where appropriate (i.e. out in the country) is fine. In a heavily populated area it will only cause you trouble.

If the trouble dosen't come from the police it will come from some idiot with a excess of testostorone or alcohol or both.

I have open carried everywhere I have been that it is legal.
Never had anything like that go on.


Jim

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Big bullets leave big holes

Your time will come eventually Jim. I know because I've seen it with my own eyes.

I have had more looks and things said for wearing a hat, my tattoo, wearing boots, going out after work in my work clothes, driving a big 4x4, talking with a southern accent while being out of the south...
My side arm is one of the least noticed thing about me.
Part of the joys of being a human Sasquatch...


Jim

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Big bullets leave big holes

I was being sarcastic

I hoped so, but once again the lack of voice and visuals on the interwebz made it hard to tell. So I had to ask.

I guess I better let all those guys that open carry over in the Seattle-Tacoma area know that the are in for trouble. Most have been OCing for a year or more now and haven't found it yet, or it hasn't found them.

But you don't open carry, do you? So you must have seen it happen to everyone else that decides to open carry.

I OC around town, outside of town, into restaurants, the mall...hell, just about everywhere I go in WA, ID and MT and have yet to have anything like that happen to me either, nor do I know anyone that has happened too.

I will admit that there are some police that don't quite know the law as well as they should and if they want to question me I may or may not talk to them.

The magic questions in WA are simple. Am I being detained? And, What is your reasonable articulation of suspicion for stopping me? The mere fact I OC does not rise to anything more than a social contact which I am not obliged to cooperate with. We don't even have a stop and identify law here. They can ask my name and I will give it, but I will not hand over my ID until I am detained.

The bottom line here is that I can't think of more than one or two times a person in Spokane has been hassled over their mode of carry.

It seems people who open carry get more grief from people who say they support the Second Amendment than they do the police or fellow citizens out in public.

Why is that I wonder?

bob

You must be a sight my friend. Just be careful. As I said, I've seen with my own eyes the trouble some have gotten themselves into with open carry. Not only with law enforcement but gun haters as well.

Nope... and thats the thing... other than being a big guy... I dont look abnormal.
Just saying I have caught more flak from things that most people wouldnt notice or care about... than open carrying.
Most of the ones I have seen that notice... are the shady looking types, and they vamoose in a different direction.
And as to "you dont notice most things"... which is brought up quite often... a lot of time I have my wife tail me and look for reactions.
Because well... im honestly curious about that.


Jim

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Big bullets leave big holes

Man legally brings loaded AK-47 pistol to park - WKRN, Nashville, Tennessee News, Weather, and Sports |
Radnor Lake Rambo Strikes Again! He's the Belle Meade Macho Man Now - Nashville News - Nashville Scene - Pith in the Wind
Do you think fools like this help or hurt our cause?

He hurts it. And he's a member of this forum, sad to say. Of course, he's been banned from so many forums, he's probably running out of places to post his nonsense. If you're a member of TGO, you know who I'm talking about. He was banned there too.

He's looking for trouble, and has no problem making that loud and clear. His favorite line is "I'll sue you". He isn't making any 2nd Amendment statements....he's looking for someone to sue and nothing more.

Is that AK a toy gun? Look at the orange tip on the barrel.

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Sure you did

In another article, he states he painted the tip orange.

Ahhh, looking to deceive.

He's lucky some 10 yr old didn't jack him up for his lunch money.

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Sure you did

This is not a practice peculiar to the U.S. In Switzerland, I believe they sometimes have parades associated with elections and citizens (of all ages) bring their service rifles. I am not sure whether the rifles are actually taken into the polling places, but I think their point is an excellent one. Maybe we could learn from it? But imagine if such were to happen here! In the age of the citizen-sissy, the emergency calls to 911 would be unrelenting.

In such an assembly, what will make the real difference to any reasonable person is the appearance and tone of those demonstrating, and how appropriate the location and timing of the demonstration may be.

Individual open carry, as a general matter, is a non-issue, here in Indiana. We see it now and then, and unfortunately it usually involves some rather rough looking types, nylon holsters, and inexpensive handguns. It's not the greatest thing, for those of us who are fond of our rights and would like to keep them.

Serious lack of common sense. Makes you wonder about the insecurities or mental defects a person like this has. It's bad enough we have to fight anti gunners and dummy's like this don't help.

This is precisely the type people I would expect to encounter at an open carry demonstration.

Sorry about that. I obviously did a poor job of illustrating that the Handgun Carry Permit is much more than simply a permit to carry a handgun.

Actually, thats exactly what it is. A permit to carry a handgun. How do you figure it's anything more than that? No other firearms are covered under the "handgun" carry permit. Not trying to sound smart, just wondering what you mean.

HB 0390/SB 0578 signed into law last year. Allows for TN Handgun Permit Holders to have loaded long guns in their vehicle.

I don't open carry, but if its legal and you want to, have at it.

Here is an issue that hasn't been brought up, so I will.

If a nice clean cut white guy can walk to Starbucks with a Kimber in an expensive holster in plain sight and not be hassled, then how can a cop stop and hassle a 21 year old latino gang banger with "F*** the Police" tattooed on his face who has a Hi-Point in plain sight sticking out of the pocket of his baggies?

Because he's 21? Nope, old enough. Because he's latino. Oh, hell no. Because he's wearing gang clothes? I doubt it. I see kids who aren't gangsters wearing that silly stuff. Tattoos? Hah - plenty of tattoos right here on this board.

I guess the book answer is for the cop to let the gang banger proceed on with his business. Or, he can be creative and maybe lose his job or get sued.

I don't know the answer, but the above conundrum may be why there is opposition to the whole idea of open carry.

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“What you got, ain’t new.”

SB 0578 by *Jackson, Crowe, Gresham. (*HB 0390 by *Fincher, Evans, Lollar, Roach, Ford , Dean, Todd, Rich, Eldridge, Moore, Montgomery, Fraley, Hensley, Niceley, McCormick.)

Handgun Permits - As enacted, makes it an exception to the criminal offense "unlawful carrying or possession of a weapon" that a person who has a valid handgun carry permit is transporting a rifle or shotgun in or on a privately owned motor vehicle and the weapon does not have ammunition in the chamber; exception will also apply if the rifle or shotgun has ammunition in the chamber, which ammunition was inserted in the chamber for purposes of justifiable self defense. - Amends TCA Title 39, Chapter 17.

Bill Summary

39-17-1308 provides a "defense" to 39-17-1307 if the weapon was not concealed, was unloaded and ammo was not in the immediate vicinity of the individual or the weapon.

For HCP holders, this bill creates an "exception" (as opposed to a defense) to 39-17-1307. Under the bill, any HCP holder will be able to carry a rifle or shotgun, openly or concealed, during transport in a private vehicle. Ammo can be in a clip, magazine or in close proximity, but not in the chamber. Ammo can be chambered for self defense.

But I don't want to hijack this thread to discuss TN long gun laws now. The only point I originally addressed earlier was TN has no CCW, which if I'm thinking correctly, has the word "Concealed" in it. We have an HCP, no concealment required. Those are two different critters. Didn't mean to imply anything else.

For someone who didn't want this thread hijacked you certainly kept asking me to. Like I said, the Handgun Permit is a lot more than just a permit to carry a handgun.

Such opposition is the basis for all gun-grabbing logic-- Restrict/penalize the law abiding in the name crime fighting.

While I originally posted this thread because of an open carry demonstration seen on our local news, wanting to learn others opinions on the subject. I have enjoyed reading everyones comments, even if it was a law in there home state and may not necessarily pertain to laws in Michigan. I believe that the whole reason for posting and reading others comments is to carry on a conversation where we can voice what we know and learned ;and share this knowledge with others, making us all better educated, not just of our local laws;but of laws and events all across the country/world.
I have learned a lot and it has encouraged me to research my laws and to better know my rights as a citizen of the United States.

Thank-you all!!

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Defend your family first!

Well, I hate to say this, but without a reasonable articulation of suspicion, I don't guess the banger gets "hassled". That is the way our system works.

bob

+1 to the above post.
Sounds like someone has some other agenda in mind.
There are many versions of criminals, just as there are many versions of law abiding folks exercising their rights. Nothing says you gotta be a certain ethnic persuasion not to get hassled by over zealous cops. etc.

Check the history books for people like the texas tower sniper, richard spect, dan white(sp), john gasey, lee ozwald, charles manson etc.

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Pete.

Michigan has always been an open carry state......as far as the legislature is concerned.

But......

Back when Frank Kelly was AG in Mi., he proclaimed that open carry was "brandishing a firearm" thereby denying the people of Michigan their legal right by bureaucratic fiat.

Recently, our new AG reversed that decision, thereby returning to the people their legal right to open carry.

Yes, Mi. does have fairly strict handgun laws, but now we are a 'shall issue' state for CPLs and things are looking better.

Even Jenny Granholm, our Democrat governor has admitted that the shall issue has worked better than she thought it would when she was AG., back in '01 when it was passed.

My belief on OC versus CC is do what is legal and comfortable to you. I don't feel comfortable walking around town with my gun out for everyone to see, but that is just me. I do find that the open carry laws protect me when a situation comes up that I can't keep my pistol concealed.
Most importantly, this topic should not be allowed to divide law abiding gun owners. Discussion is fine, and this thread has been much more civil then other OC vs CC threads on other forums. I have seen forums where this topic brings out the worst in people and causes people to become enemies just because they disagree on the one topic of how to carry a gun.

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J.D. Roy

I have a CPL in Mi., and I too appreciate the fact that I no longer have to be so careful about letting the gun show a little. Another thing is that in Mi., once you enter a vehicle, the gun is considered concealed, so a CPL is a lot handier for that.

Like you, I don't wanna open carry because it gets too much attention.

Besides, in the event that I happened to be present during a robbery, I would probably be the first one shot if the BGs could see that I was armed....