Today (01/30/2010) a group of men got together in Battle Creek, MI. and walked the streets with sidearms and rifles to "educate" the public. This was on our local news, WWMT.com. If I could find the video I would post it, but I haven't found it on line yet. will post when/if I find it.

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Defend your family first!

There is going to be some thing of the sorts in Birmingham Alabama, next Saturday, 02/06, at DreamLand BBQ,
2:00PM, and they supposedly have the blessings of the establishment and the local PD.

Dreamland. BEST BBQ on the planet. And they allow open carry on premises. Even more reason for a road trip.

Class III

Somebody post some pics of these events please.

Michigan has pretty strict gun laws, they even regulate black powder and air pistols I think. With things the way they are in Michigan at the moment I would think the local authorities would be worried that someone had started the revolution without them! No slam on Michigan, it's my home state and I miss it warts and all. I now you cannot open carry in Texas (hand gun) and the laws are not all that clear other places.

Dwight
(Niles, and Interlochen)

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Veritas et Humanitas

Legal, yes. Good representation of gun owners, I don't think so.

Why wouldnt it be a good representation of gun owners?


Jim

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Big bullets leave big holes

You have a point...If folks who were so inclinded (where legal) open carried in public daily, that might set a better example than in a one time demostration sort of thing...JMHO

BTW gregintenn, does TN allow open carry of sidearms? IIRC TN at one time (years ago) had an intent to go armed statute that may have prohibited open carry.


Su Amigo,
Dave

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"IN GOD WE TRUST"

I have my CHL, but I open carry about 50/50.
An orderly... not "IN YOUR FACE" gathering of open carriers isnt a bad thing.
They happen all over Va, and its normally underinformed police that cause the problems... if any occur, and not the carriers or public.


Jim

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Big bullets leave big holes

I'm not Greg, but TN is an open carry state. Or it can be concealed, whichever you choose.

Hi Penny,

I travel through TN sometimes and have open carried in plainclothes...but had my badge on my belt along side my sidearm.

Thanks for the info.

Su Amigo,
Dvae

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"IN GOD WE TRUST"

I agree 100%.

It's difficult enough as concealed carriers to be accepted by the general public. Open carry just shoves it down their throat and gives them another reason to hate us and come after us.

Politically and tactically, it's makes no sense.

Just my opinion.

For those with an interest: Open Carry.com OpenCarry.org - A Right Unexercised is a Right Lost!

Washington State allows both open and concealed carry. For me this means I do not have to be as worried that someone will "catch a peek" of my concealed carry piece. The only time I truly open carry is when I am trail riding as it is a bit of a project to "conceal" my S&W M22/1917.

Another point of interest. In Washington State at least, a long arm is considered to be an offensive weapon and can only be used for hunting or at the range. Can't tote My M1 Garand down mainstreet.

Politics is always debatable.
Tactics however...
I find OC to be great tactics.
More readily at hand.
Less of a target for BGs... and if you want to argue that, find all the reports of openly armed people vs people who appeared to be unarmed, being attacked.
Less dressing around your carry piece.

The main drawback is that some people are not used to seeing an OC firearm.
And exposure to that is the only way to get them past it.


Jim

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Big bullets leave big holes

You all can think what you like, but I believe open carry saved my life, or at the least, a beating, robbery, and car theft. I was hiking in NV and met four youts that had bad intentions until they saw a model 10 on my hip. Once they saw that, they were quite polite.

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Insert short witty words here

I have had experiences like that a few times... as have MANY other OCers that I know.


Jim

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Big bullets leave big holes

This has come up several times before, and it always comes out with about 50% of the people on both sides of the open carry vs concealed carry debate. While I can understand some of the reasons why people think OC is a good thing (educating the public, exercising your rights, etc.), I am not comfortable with open carry. For myself, I don't want anyone knowing that I am carrying for three reasons.

1. It definately makes the "non-gun" people very uncomfortable. I am not talking about anti-gun people, just those average everyday citizens that don't give guns much thought. I am extremely involved with guns as an instructor, competitor, and concealed carry licensee, and I get just a bit uneasy seeing a gun open carried. I think it is human nature, and making a spectacle of it is not going to suddenly make someone comfortable with seeing it. Just my opinion.

2. I don't want criminals to know I am carrying a firearm. It defeats the element of surprise, and may lead to a set-up where I get my head bashed in and a criminal walks away with a free gun to use in crimes.

3. I don't care to be hassled by every LEO who may not know the law regarding carrying of firearms. Liberal judges are no exception either. We just had an incident in Springfield, MA where a policeman disarmed a legally armed man, confiscated the firearm and the persons license to carry, claiming that he could not validate the license. The guy got his gun back later that evening, but what the judge had to say was in a word, "unbelievable".

The article is in the current GOAL news periodical (Gun Owners Action League) called "The Outdoor Message". If I cannot find a link, I will quote the federal judge (who BTW was appointed by Clinton).

Bottom line is that these type things may make us feel good, but will only draw the attention of those who will never "get it", and embolden those who wish to strip away what rights we currently enjoy. I am all for flying under the radar, and keeping the pressure on our litigators by keeping informed about new anti-gun laws in the making.


WG840

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Freedom above all else.

We could argue this for the next ten years. But it wouldn't do any good now would it? I respect your beliefs although I do not agree.

Excellent thoughts. I agree just about 100%.

If open carry is legal in your state and that is what you want to do, then by all means do it. I don't like the idea of making a spectacle of it, though, by trying to draw attention with a mass "carry-in" or something of that sort.

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Georgia On My Mind

The last paragraph is what it's all about. Some WILL NEVER get it. Doesn't matter how hard we try to educate or convince them. To them guns will always be evil and need to be done away with.

150 years ago or so open carry was the norm. But even then some people were offended and thought it wasn't neccessary.

The same thinking persists today. The pro gun movement needs to move one step at a time as one. I believe open carry is too much too soon.

To me it depends on your location. In the city it may cause more fear and trouble than you'd think. We don't want to upset the sheeple, it hurts our cause. In more rural areas it's often a conversation started. "Whatcha got there?" is pretty common.

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Fast is fine;accurate is final

My personal feelings on Open Carry are that; I will carry concealed when possible, but if the situation arises where I need to be Open then I do not want to go to jail for it. Situations that do not involve Self Defense, examples like: changing a tire on the side of the road, and I wanted to come out of my jacket, or my wife and I just came out of a nice restaraunt and she is cold, so like any gantilman would do I give her my jacket, or a kid falls into the lake at the park and you jump in to save them from drowning, the possibilities are limitless as to reasons why some one might want to not be carrying concealed. To include personal choice, and comfort.

I don't see where the "educate" part of this comes it. It is more likely to scare the beejebers out of a bunch of folks who only wanted to carry the family out for some BBQ and make them think gun owners are idiots!

I've had a CCW for almost 25 years. I carry daily. I wouldn't have a problem with OC (not legal in Iowa now) but for me, I'd prefer being the only one who knows I'm carrying. I don't even tell a lot of people I carry concealed. The only reason I'm doing it here is you have no idea who I am. I know you're good people, but somebody else may be lurking, so.....
In our society, I'd rather fly under the radar, been doing it all my life, especially as a teenager. (What Mom and Dad didn't know didn't hurt me). I take my protection very seriously and prefer the element of surprise. That said I have no problem with other responsible gun owners carrying openly. But it's not for me.

OC, if you like, I prefer CC. Don't want a BG stickin' a gun in my back, or my face for that matter, and relieving me of my weapon. Carrying 10 guns in full view won't help me in that case.

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Sure you did

I agree with this 100%.

FN in MT

ONLY if you have a Handgun Carry Permit.

In Michigan, you can openly carry without any permission from the state. As long as you can legally possess a firearm, you can carry it unconcealed.

For years, Michigan government has used the criminal charge of "brandishing" a firearm to discourage open carry. But they never took the time to define brandishing in the law.

The political climate regarding guns is changing in Michigan, and the people are changing it, not the politicians.

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VIVERE MILITARE EST

VA is an opencarry state and OC has a large following here. Like any group of people with a cause, you will find some over the top who like to push the envelope just to get a rise out of people and are just begging to be challenged by those who don't know this is allowed so they can put them in their place, but the majority are good people just exercising their right. It is simply a matter of preference.

ky is an open carry state also...but i have heard of guys being harassed by uninformed cops....i have ccw permit and conceal most of the time.

http://www.wwmt.com/video/?videoId=62377114001&play=now

this it the address for one of the videos, I cant find the actual one from yesterday. I thought this was it but its is part of the footage they used.

NOTE: Survivor fans, you may recognize the anchor, Jeff Varner from the Australian outback

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Defend your family first!

My thoughts exactly!

I don't open carry, but I support the right to. I do not agree with the people who open carry just to make a point. It's legal for me to wear a dress, but I don't. There are also those who I feel OC simply because they want to make others uncomfortable and hope for a scene.

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- The Federalist #46 -

A little history for those who don't know or have forgotten.

In Ohio, in the mid-1990's, there was no concealed carry and open carry was deemed illegal. The Ohio Supreme Court ruled that open carry, was in fact, legal with no license required. There being no law to allow concealed carry, it was still illegal.

Ohio Concealed Carry was established and held open carry marchs to 'educate' the Ohio Legislature. Suprisingly it worked. Not suprisingly the hoplophobes went ape-feces. But, Ohio now has law that allows for concealed carry.

Before you make blanked statements that open carry causes more harm than good, make sure of your history.

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John

What I should have said was this. I have no problem with open carry, as most of you probably don't either. If you put yourself in the shoes of the general, uneducated public, open carry seems barbaric and crude, unless you are in a uniform. I don't think gunowners need anymore bad publicity, especially if they can prevent it.

Yes history is important. But to gun grabbers history means nothing. They only care about here and now. No matter how many setbacks they go through, they just keep pushing. How us gun carriers proceed as a whole is more important than a small percentage of people that want to demonstrate with open carry marches. Open carry demonstrators do NOT respresent me nor do they have my support. We already have organizations that fight for us. Support them instead.

Well said.

I also believe that "staying under the radar" is the way to go. While one has the right to open carry, sticking it in anothers face, because he/her has the right to is a bad idea.

Laws are changed all the time....why push your luck when you've already won, and have the right. Anyone consider common sence?

Her in Wi we can't get a permit to CC. That doesn't mean it's a good idea to lose the open carry right we already have. One doesn't need to announce I GOT A GUN.

spricks

In my humble opinion, Open Carry or Concealed Carry is for one reason only, that is self protection. It doesn't take a genius to figure out which accomplishes the objective with the least amount of public knowledge or misguided concerns.

I revived this thread to show the destructiveness of open carry.

This isn't merely my opinion. It's fact. Read it for yourselves.

This is an example of "shoving down thier throats" as I stated in my earlier post in this thread.


Group lobbies to ban guns from Starbucks | KING 5 TV | Seattle News, Local News, Breaking News, Weather | Business News

ETA: Do you have any idea why the people in CA are proponents of open carry?

I don't know where the destructiveness part comes into play in that article.

It is a CA problem, in WA where open carry is legal and much more accepted Starbucks has said:

In fact that should cover their stores in all states, not just CA and where this article came from, which is a small enclave of thinkers much like those in CA up in the Pacific Northwest.

Sounds like Starbucks is not bowing to the pressure of the Brady people to me.

That makes it a check in the win column for me.

bob

Here is an article from Dave Workman, a 2A advocate from the Seattle area.

Anti-Starbucks campaign affirms fear, loathing and bigotry of anti-gun lobby

bob

Yeah, these days exercising your rights is a sure way to gain a bad reputation and offend others. I'm being serious here. It's really sad just how low we've sunk in this country.

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The earth laughs in flowers

Staying under the radar for so long is why we now are at a time when so many (majority) of our fellow citizens are so ignorant about anything and everything gun related.

As I mentioned earlier, these days exercising your rights is a sure way to gain a bad reputation and offend others. I'm being serious here. It's really sad just how low we've sunk in this country. And we have only ourselves to blame.

Regarding open carry, the law abiding gun owning and gun toting citizenry of this nation need all the law abiding "publicity" we can get.

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The earth laughs in flowers

TN CCW permit holder here.

OC isn't for me. I don't see the risk/reward benefit of bringing attention to myself.

If a bunch of folks want to get together to display OC, that's their business. I won't be there.

I think open carry is fine. But if you get a bunch of guys suddenly walking around in public that way, all the ladies are gonna think we've been invaded, and you'll scare the heck out of them. And no good is gonna come from that. Need lots of education and tv coverage FIRST.
IMHO
Sonny

Self proclaimed martyrs. That’s their choice.

Open carry is not permitted in Florida except under very restrictive conditions.
I have no particular interest in open carry in urban areas. However, there are lots of times in the woods and on the trails that I think open carry would and should be acceptable. I would think it much more likely that Starbucks has gun-phobes than those who hike in the deep woods.
In fact if I wanted to find a gun-phobe I would start at one of the Starbucks near the U of F. Open carry there would cause hissy fits.

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Ipsis Rebus Dictantitbus

Somebody upthread mentioned our "intent" law, and it is indeed on the books. In many cases, when criminals are arrested they are ALSO charged with carrying a weapon with the intent to go armed. Where things get difficult is that many peace officers in the Volunteer State equate OC with "intent to go armed" despite the fact that AFAIK our "CCW" law is in reality a carry law with no legal requirement to conceal. Sooooo, in the good old Volunteer State, I wouldn't OC in a civilized area as many people that AREN'T policemen equate OC with "...intent..." and act accordingly. I once had the law called on me for cleaning a rifle on my front porch in Knoxville.

I hope you got to read the Fox News report about the dedicated faithful police officer from East Palo Alto in today's news. Don't know if the link will stay, cause its to a news article, It's a gun rights article but anyhow.
Gun Rights Advocates Target California Detective Following Facebook Posts - Local News | News Articles | National News | US News - FOXNews.com

The fine upstanding officer writing on a friend officer's Facebook page, recommended putting anyone actually exercising their 2A rights on the ground. And shoot 'em if they move.

The officer actually made one good point in his comments. CA open carry only allows unloaded weapons in most cases, (without CCW). He suggested the gang bangers would 'jack the dude' in a heartbeat for his gun. Obviously, they know the honest guy's gun's unloaded, while there's aren't.

I'm not a real fan of open carry anyway, but it's got to be the height of stupid to open carry unloaded.

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Pete.