Hi:
Another "Medical Proceedure" for Jimmy tomorrow, so I am feeling GRUMPY!
Question: When did Cops stop looking like Cops?
The T shirts, Cargo Pants with Pants stuffed into tops of Kel-Tec Boots, Nylon Equipment Belts with low hanging holsters (tied down to the leg)
sporting plastic bottom Feeders Pistols, shaved heads and dark sun glasses!
Are these "Real Cops" or "Reel Cops" playing a role.
Jimmy

Jimmy, you are not alone in your thoughts, I absolutely hate the "militarization" of civilian police forces. In the days of my youth when I served on a midwestern PD , My SGT. would have kicked my butt from here to China if I would have shown up to work in anything but a crisp freshly pressed blue uniform. We were law enforcement officers, not commandos. {And the Sgt, was a WW11 combat decorated paratrooper}

On a par with the increasing sloppy appearance of military personnel IMHO. In "My Day" (1967-1971) you went off post in fatigues only if you were on duty or going to or from your quarters, otherwise you wore civvies or either the summer Class A Uniform-khakis-or the winter one. And your shoes better be shined. Nowadays it's desert BDUs and rough side out boots. And I have seen pictures of Naval personnel wearing BDUs on ship-in a "Navy Blue" camo pattern. Now that's really practical.

First went our hats,...... then baseballcaps were authorized,... then the cargo pants and golf shirts to make us less " offensive ", I was told. I preferred offensive. We are policemen, not social workers.

A person dresses for the job they have to do. Nothing beats a clean uniform but the tactical dress works better and gives an air of authority during raids. Also the tactical pants offer pockets for more items than does the standard uniform.

My gripe about the current departments is why are so many uniform officers working inside the department instead of being on the streets. There are uniformed officers giving out accident reports, others are serving as receptionists, others are serving as flunkies for the high ups. In the local department, there is a large shortage of officers on the streets but out of a 600 man force, over 25% are sitting in the offices doing desk work when a civl service employee would be just fine and at a lower hourly rate.

I've been on the job for 29 years, and I have to confess that I kind of like the weight savings of the nylon gear. Been wearing it almost 5 years now. No, it doesn't look as good, and some of the pieces get worn out pretty quickly, but it's much lighter!!!

That said, I've often thought that the more "tactical" gear a cop wears, the lower his common sense tends to be when doing the job. I guess it's like the old chicken and the egg question... I don't know which happened first- we picked up a bunch of Navy-SEAL wanna-bees in this bizness, or we quit doing the job the way we used to.

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LEO since 1981.

Jimmy,

I'm right there with ya.

I see some of these guys dressed in the latest tactical fashions
lookin' like they just steped off'n the page of a police supply catalog some's where.

What ever happen to taking pride in being a professional servant and protector of our citizens and community.

I still, at least try to wear a cheap tie, starched shirt and pressed pants.



Su Amigo,
Dave

__________________
"IN GOD WE TRUST"

+1 ! Baseball caps were the WORST! Wearing NO hat is better than wearing a baseball cap in uniform. I remember when they first caught on. I was watching news coverage of a neighboring department working a triple homicide... it looked like they had to call them all in off of the softball field to take the call!

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LEO since 1981.

I think it all changed in the mid 90's. Too bad.

I don't know about you, but the ones I don't appreciate the most are the ones that pretty much look like terrorist.
When did ski masks become daily wear.
I can understand UC guys not wanting to be identified, but the ski-mask patrol is going overboard these days.
It was Russia that had the secret police.

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Pete.

Let's face it guys. The days of the starched uniformed officer containing law and order with the .38 caliber revolver and the leaded, leather sap have gave way to kids dressed in black military fatigues, with slick heads and $100 sunglasses. They no longer wear leather gear, but rather nylon web Batman utility belts, with tazers and plastic pistols hung low on the leg.

The universal law enforcement motto, "serve and protect" has been replaced with the younger, hipper, more appropriate, "seek and destroy."

I don't like it, Jimmy...I don't like it one bit.

My non-LEO observation:

I see this more with small departments. The larger departments in cities I visit on a frequent basis (LA, San Diego, Baltimore, NYC) seem to still require patrol men and women to wear a proper uniform. The smaller departments around where I work (south-central PA and northern MD) mostly dress like a bunch of teenage wanna-be paint-ball commandos.

Just my experience...yours may vary.

I am prepared to cut them a little slack in this city. In and out of a patrol car in a shirt and tie when it is 110°F in the shade is asking a bit much, IMHO. We have a special troop of cops on pedal bikes that patrol the Strip who wear shorts and short-sleeved shirts. That's fair enough, and I am sure the wolf whistles and attention from the inebriated female tourists makes up for any discomfort they may suffer.

This is a good topic, I have some thoughts on this.
There isn't ONE thing to point to IMO. I think some of what we are facing with the "tactical" approach to law enforcement is a product of what I consider to be "survival based" training. We (the collective we) have been swamped with websites, police based magazines and books, and "reality" TV shoes (Cops, etc) that show the survival aspects of the job, and now we have a few generations of officers who truly believe that everyone they meet is intent on killing them.
Look at the cover of the police magazines that get sent to your agency. What is on the cover?? Some copper walking a beat, or talking to a guy cutting his grass?? NO, some hooded, armored, AR toting door kicker with his face covered wearing a GI helmet.
Every young copper wants to find 10 kilos of cocaine, and go to door breaching school. We have focused on training cops to "rip and run" when enforcing the law, and as such we are being swamped with court cases that deputies and officers lose due to justifying searches for "officer safety" or "cause they can".
Don't believe me???? Ask 10 of the young coppers you work with to tell you the 4 ways you can legally search a house, or to tell you the difference between reasonable, articulable suspicion and probable cause. Get them talking about "Terry v Ohio" (which actually should be the McFadden rule, and not the Terry rule) and see how much they know.
Search warrant affidavits become cut and paste templates in a laptop somewhere.
How many of your young coppers talk of "taking a burglary report" instead of "investigating a burglary"??? ....I can teach 6th graders how to fill out an incident report. I need bandit catchers, I need hounds that seek out the predators, and protect the flock.
These young guys talk about being sheepdogs, but I am less than impressed.
Sheepdogs don't b%$^h about having to protect the sheep, or think less of the sheep if they don't worship the sheepdog.
Sheepdogs don't ask "what is in it for me?" after getting an assignment that sucks, or doesn't have the glamor and tacticool factor they may feel entitled to.
It ain't the uniforms necessarily. It is the approach to the job that has changed......
Now, my rant has ended for now......I do feel better...and i don't intent to paint all young coppers with the same brush, I have lived long enough to know how wrong that is. However, I feel my basic points are valid....and it is up to us to make officers tactically aware, but also instill community values in them as well.....

round out the theme with the watch commander dressed as an umpire and ..... I'll take the fith since going further into the visual will attract a flame thrower

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it just needs more voltage

Well put sheriff.

Well, you can count me in the group that does not like the "new" BDU style.

Now playing the Devil's Advocate, they are a bit cheaper, they do allow more pockets and places to put the new toys.

And speaking of the new toys, it is getting hard to find a spot on the belt to put them all.

Gone are the days when you had only your gun, handcuffs, ammo, and baton.

Now there is the handheld radio, the pepper spray, the ASP, the gloves, the TASER, in addition to the cell phone, pager,
etc, etc.

Now I understand the global view that we need the options to deal with our "clients" with the "less lethal" gadgets, but it is almost to the point of having too many options.

But whenever you use only one option and something goes bad - and it will sooner or later, you have umpteen "experts" spouting off - "Well, if they had TASER's or whatever, this would not have happened."

So it's a no win situation any way you go.

For the record, I support the pressed slacks, shined shoes, campaign hat (I really did dislike the bus driver style), and looking sharp.

Dang, I guess I have just admitted I'm one of the old farts.

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I am a sheep dog!
1601 (ret)

The complaints I used to hear were, some sob left cigar ashes in the car that got on your uniform, or there were beer cans rolling out from under the seat when you hit the brakes; now its power drinks, juice cans & health bar wrappers.

Sounding better?

I remember the phrase "Officer presence" A big spit and polished professional looking Police Officer could stop an incident just by appearing on the scene. He looked and acted like something special and projected the power and authority of law of the people.

I am not denigrating the talent and the dedication of today's LEO by any means, they are better trained and better equipped, but the appearance LEO's in BDU and base ball caps reminds me of the mechanics at the local Government Motors garage and it evokes about the same response..

New York vs. Chicago Mayoral Security Details







I post these photos with no editorial comment.


Bullseye

If you work for a dept. around here you wear a uniform if you work a marked car. The cargo pants are for special stuff or things where you might get dirty. The younger bald cops with the sunglasses are cool. The older bald cops with the bifocals just don't have any hair and could care less about cool. Being an older cop I sometimes try to share some of the things I've learned in the last 41 years with the younger guys. Some of them look at you like you're some kind of fossil. The smarter ones will actually listen as I did in my rookie years. I leave them alone and maybe try again later. Most of the younger guys don't seem to be as disciplined as we were at their age.(maybe I wasn't either and just don't remember) There are a few exceptions with most of those being ex-military. Too bad you can't have wisdom and experience at an earlier age. It ain't all about tickets and putting folks in jail.

You know, this is a pet peeve of mine. And two of my brothers have been deputies. One's retired. And I respect them and their like tremendously. But I can't stand this attitude or look. If you want to play ARMY then join the military and make many thousand less dollars per year. Spend months or years being deployed away from your family. Face financial hardships every time you have to move (every 3-4 years) and your wife loses her job and you have to worry about selling your house. When I think back to incidents like Columbine and those "operators" standing by while a couple of punks ran wild it makes me sick. What they needed was a couple of Vietnam vets to handle the situation. Sorry for my rant.

Chris

Chris,
Our current SOP and overall training for response to active shooter(s);
(1) Come as you are, if plain clothes try to get some kind of I.D. on your person...Go with what you got, sidearm and or long gun if you got one.

(2) First two or three LEOs on the scene make entry, right now and go directly to the business at hand. As more officers arrive they make entry...No waiting for special teams!

Su Amigo,
Dave

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"IN GOD WE TRUST"

Glad to hear, Dave. It should probably be that way everywhere.
Chris

Times sure have changed. I am not a old LEO but a former one. I work Pvt. Security and the company I work for lets Officers wear dumb looking baseball caps and black jeans!!! Very, very unprofessional looking. Jeans and baseball caps have no place in regular duty appearance. I strictly work the Federal Contract and all of us are former or retired cops. No jeans! Some County Sheriff's Departments here in ND let Deputies wear brown Wranglers. Some of them go so far as to have tan strips stitched on to them. Very tacky and stupid looking.

I do like leather duty gear but due to may bad back I switched to nylon gear a year ago. I don't like the way it looks but it is lighter and saves me pain after a 12 hour shift. The cargo pants are nice to have too. Extra pockets are a Officers best friends some times. I don't wear the ultra tactical 5.11 ones. Mine look just like regular uniform pant but with pockets on each leg.

"It ain't all about tickets and putting folks in jail."

I agree Charlie. My late Father said the same thing. He was like you and I did listen to him when I was a 22 year old new Cop. One of the many reasons I got of LE was due to this. To many people coming to jail that don't have to. BS calls turned into a big headache because Mr. Super Cop wanted to look good for the Brass.

In my best Walter Brennan voice: "Dag nabit! In my LE days, real cops wore mustaches, mirrored aviator shades and wheelguns."

Put me in the catagory against Rambo cops. AnD tasers??? Tasers are nothing but an excuse to get out of diecent police work. I cant understand some of the **** cops carry on their belts now days, if they fell in a creek they'ed drown.

What ever happened to looking professional.

One last point:

REAL COPS CARRY REVOLVERS

Anyone else notice that all the technology is getting in the way also. I've got deputies driving around all night looking at a laptop screen next to them in the car. Wouldn't see a crime in progress happening right in front of them. Can't creep up on bad guys when the computer screen has the interior of their cars lit up. Half of them can't get to a call if the map program/GPS goes down. Actually had a female deputy request a fight in progress call be re-assigned as her computer went down and she didn't know how to get there. The department had to issue a written policy that deputies not be talking on personal cell phones while patrolling. I can't stand seeing on duty patrol personnel driving around with a cell phone glued to their ear. Most of these guys rely way too much on the Taser. Talking to someone or going hands on is completely alien to them. All a real cop needs even today is a Plymouth with a bench seat, a map book, and a Smith Combat Magnum. Oh yeah, and a mustache.

Okay, I consider myself an old guy, not as old as some here, but maybe older than others. I don't care for all the stuff that our new coppers have to hang on their belts but society has required it. The people who pay us to protect and serve. They are the same people that sit on civil juries and decide hitting some miscreant with a club was wrong and you should have used something else. So we have too much **** on our belts. Speaking of belts, you can't beat a good old leather belt except when you have to clean out any blood for fear of blood borne pathogens. My department switched to synthetic "leather looking" belts many years ago for this reason. Nylon is lighter and easier on the back.

As far as BDU's we have them for special assignments but still wear a wool blend uniform for patrol. The deputies don't really have much of a say in the uniform the department approves.

I am pretty sure the old timers winding up their careers in the 70's and early 80's said our hair was too long and our "cookie dusters" too big. Now I see the complaint is the lack of hair and the sunglasses cost too much. What do you think the lawmen of the 20's and 30's would have said about our uniforms and look from the early 80's?

Todays LEO's are better trained, more physically fit and better educated then they have ever been before. They bleed the same color the "Old Breed" does and many meet death before their time. But they still answer the call.

I have to say I think the original question on this thread has probably been asked by every generation of Lawmen about the "New Breed."

An outsider observation. Im in my 40's so my experience is limited. But our sheriff's deputies here still wear there uniforms and look professional. They seem willing to to not only listen, but hear what people are asking or telling them and educate as they go. Thumbs up.

Our police wear the tactical stuff, guns low and tied down, try not to talk to anyone. Our police chief announced a couple of weeks ago that they are no longer responding to vehicle theft or burglaries due to budget cuts. House break in response was did you want someone to come out?.Thumbs down.

Our Sheriff Margret Mimms is approving CCW, and with the current lack of response and or trust of the police that is a good thing.

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with wings as eagles

At my dept we get all the nice new gear but I dare you to pull a tazer or asp baton and use it. you will get an A class write up and days off without pay or fired. It has happened several times.we say why issue it if we get punished for useing it.so most of us stoped carrying the Asp baton it was dead weight on the belt.jailers and deputys wear black bdus in the jail.the road and court guys wear class A's.we have some people in high postions that love the crooks.and we better not do anything to them or we will pay. they are poor folks that didnt get hugged enough.so until the command changes we suffer through it.

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God save the SOUTH

Ouch! Sounds like the Department you work for is hell.

Burp, snort. Back in my day.. Fap.. the old timers belly ached about our mustaches and long side burns.

I got into a shooting incident and the next day in a briefing with head of the Patrol, he felt I had been justified in my actions etc. His only comment as I was leaving his office was "trim your side burns."



I always figured that the fully mushroomed bullet I wore for a tie tack probably contributed to
my invincible appearance just a little. *G*

I understand the question and agree. But, from what I observe (been retired some years now) the major city officers here in Ohio still have the uniform cop look. They wear round or pointed hats, not baseball caps, tons of equipment on the duty belt, and the standard uniform pants and shirt. Of course SWAT has the military dress code for obvious reasons. And special units like helicopters wear flight suits, motorcycle attire includes leather jackets, etc. Now having said that, it appears the smaller suburban departments can lean towards the more "military-tactical" look at times. My guess it's the chief's call for small department uniform dress code. Like I said, the metro PD's still look like the cops of yesteryear. Oh I forgot. The one thing that has changed from my time is the young guns of today all have the military close cut haircut. And they don't look as approachable either. They look pissed all the time under their sunglasses.

Where I was working, the move to baseball hats started when the TV show "Hill Street Blues" aired. We were required to wear a uniform hat anytime we were out of the car, unless it was an emergency response, then we had to put it on as soon as the response was stabilized. The young patrolmen, me included, wanted to get away from the straw hats in the summer/felt hats in the winter and asked to wear embroidered baseball hats. The response from the patrol lieutenant, who was one tough old guy, was words to the effect of,"You're not going to look like the cast of Hill Street Blues while you're working here!"
The last department I was with didn't even have an issue dress hat. We did have Class A uniforms that were very similar to the uniforms I wore earlier in my career, and a Class B uniform, that had embroidered badge, name tag, and department patches, worn with matching BDU pants. The Class B uniforms were, IMO, the right mix of utility, comfort, and appearance for patrol. If you wanted, you could wear a baseball cap with the embroidered star or "Deputy Sheriff" on the front, but that's all, no commercial caps.
I had always worn leather duty gear, in particular Safariland Black Basketweave, but I have to admit the nylon gear is lighter, albeit not as durable. I've always liked a mid-rise holster, and will never wear a "tactical" thigh holster (I wore them while I was on active duty in Iraq, and quickly found a suitable shoulder holster instead).
I'm part of the group the believes in "Police Presence" on the use of force continum; if you look more like the person you're trying to impress with your presence than what I think a cop should look like, then I don't think your going to have much success. Laugh all you want, but a cop should look like Barney Fife, and act like Andy Taylor.
P.S. When did everyone start wearing badges clipped to the belt and open carry in civilian clothes? When I started, if you wore civilian clothes, you concealed your gun under a jacket or something similar, and carried your badge and ID in a wallet to be displayed as required.

[QUOTE=Iggy;135562734]


QUOTE]



Chip,

Y'all sure make a dashing pair !



Su Amigo,
Dave

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"IN GOD WE TRUST"

Dave,
Thank you sir. The "dash" has faded some in the intervening 40 years.

I have no problem with Police wearing duty appropriate gear, as long as they live up to their oath to protect and defend the Constitution, do their job with compassion and discretion, and keep their minds open.
In fact, if the new gear makes them more comfortable in their jobs, I am all for it.
When I see a cop working in 90+ heat wearing polyester dark blue uniform, long sleeves, long pants, I feel sorry for him, and wonder how he keeps his composure in trying situations, let alone engage in a foot chase.
Just as long as the tactical look dosnt lead to a pseudo-military outlook.

unfortunately I suspect the outlook comes with the gear in some cases.
Im glad to see the the tacticool LEO contingent has thinned down in this forum. Man they were frustrating. I can recall a simple throw down proposal I had made way back to a few of them designed to make them face their own kind.
Was simple really ... all they needed to do was park in the walmart lot of a certain small town infested with tacticool troopers and walk, plain clothed, to Hardees and get a bite to eat. the only rule was they were not to flash tin or claim LEO status unless life or freedom was soon to be effected.
A new face in a town filled with their own kind ... they'd never have made it past the auto parts store.
it would make a good lesson for them. More so now than ever since they have city operating costs to cover. within months after I left, old friends and family tell me they've gotten much worse.

There are a good many here that if the phone rang, I'd lock load and roll for ... others ... I'd just clean my guns

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it just needs more voltage

When I started we carried a revolver in a Jordan holster, 12 rounds of ammo in loops, 1 set of cuffs and a ring for a baton we left in the car most of the time. Didn't even have portable radios. When I retired in 06 we'd added more cuffs, radio, recorder, taser and a glove pouch. Plus it's gettin hardto find any of it in real leather. Atleast our uniform was plain blue but they (younger, swat types were pushing for BDU. Dare/Great were already wearing BDU's and Polo's. And we were still wearing our vests under our shirt not these new fangles over the shirt ugly things. Hell I was even issued a vest until after 6 years as a cop and then I looked for excuses not to wear it.

I started in 1974 and retired in 2007. Only the last few years on the Hwy Patrol did we have the option to wear a less than DRESS uniform and that was for messy wrecks, inclement weather call outs, etc.

I was always one of those polished looking Troopers, it was simply drilled into me over the years. And I strongly believed that looking fit, polished and professional conveyed something to the bad guys as well...this guy is COMPETANT.

Time rolls on Gentlemen. When we all started on the job we fought 1950's and 1960's ideas. Now WE ARE those ideas.

My $ .02

When I started on the job many moons ago, we were issued .38spl., no vests, no portable radios, patrol cars did not have air conditioning,( Chief thought that if the windows were up you couldn't hear what was happening on the street).

I know times change, I had an old timer..older then me tell me that they patrolled in old post Model T type convertables and were not allow to put the tops up in the winter.

Only two things rub me the wrong way in modern police dept. The balaclavas that are worn to hide the face, and the "high and tight "haircuts.

A hair cut doesn't make you "Salty ". Go enlist in the military and do some time on the "frontlines"...then you can be "Salty ".

Now go let your hair grow back so you Sgt. can yell at you to get a haircut at inspection......if they still have inspections

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TomD

A quick note on the balaclava thing. We are required (My department) to wear them if we are going to deploy a Light Sound Diversionary Device (LSDD- Liability speak for Flash-Bang). They are made of Nomex and they are required as a piece of safety gear. Do some hide behind them? I'm sure they do. We normally pull ours off as soon as the location is secure while we wait for the case agent. FWIW we don't wear ski masks.

theres something to be said about such methods.
Ive heard a story from the good old days when the mode of police patrol transport was his shoes.

So this particular officer was on routine patrol ... on foot mind you, through a good neighborhood with a rough edge or two in the 60's.
he long suspected the rough edges but just could not make the pieces fit together to smooth em out.
As the story goes he found this old lady on the block whos porch light wasn't working ... yeah .. lame to the tenth power and most police would walk right on by. This guy took it as an opportunity. So he knocks on the door and brings this to the old ladies attention. He stayed there for a good two hours fixing that light .... half hour job even for the blatantly incompetent in the worst case scenario. Electrician I'd call him passable since he did fix the problem, but as a cop ... A+. You see, by using it as an excuse to remain in the vicinity of the suspected rough edge of the hood. he gathered enough intel and leads to ultimately return a week later to shut down a dealer to transform a good neighborhood with a rough edge into just a good neighborhood.
The methods then put the fingers of the police squarely on the pulse of all happenings in town. While problems still would manifest, they didnt grow out of control as easily as today.
I'm sorry, but a cop in a sealed cruiser, cut off from the environment save a fleeting glimpse at 30 MPH or better would miss such things. As a result, gangs grew cause you could not see them, activities started going unchecked because you could find no way of gaining some loiter time where you needed to be.

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it just needs more voltage

One of the depts.(small village PDs) I work for now wears the 8-point with class A shirt and classB pants w/ cargo pockets. I buy my own class A pants and wear them instead but nobody bother me about them. I also got the Chief to approve leather patrol jackets. We are required to wear the hat outside the car if perfoming a police function but not if getting coffe or something like that.

My other dept. has no actual uniform regs. but everybody pretty much wears a class A blue uniform. We don't have an issue cover so I wear a Dk Blue Campaign hat, the only cop in the county who wears a hat besides the Troopers.

I still spit shine my boots, wear leather belt gear, carry a sap and a straight baton and wear RayBan Aviators and I keep the windows on my car open unless it's below freezing so I can hear wht's going on.
I love young cops who say a tie is too constricting but will wear a turtle-neck or won't wear the"bus driver" hat but will wear a ball cap (when was the last time anybody saw a bus driver with a hat).

These puppies wouldn't last a minute in my fathers day, wool long sleeves and a tie year round, no A/C, power brakes, steering or windows, hats to be worn in the car, lugging around a New Service or N Frame etc.

I didn't know about the safety issue, thanks for the info.

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TomD

I like it. Subtle, like the "p" in "swimming pool."

I got into a shooting incident and the next day in a briefing with head of the Patrol, he felt I had been justified in my actions etc. His only comment as I was leaving his office was "trim your side burns."

One of my brothers related a similar story where two of their deputies were involved in a shooting and as they were waiting for the Sheriff to arrive on the scene, one of them asked, What should we do?" The oher replied, "We'd better get our hats on."

Chris

Chris,

That, right there is 'The classic line' of this here whole thread...LOL

Thanks, I need that today!

Su Amigo,
Dave

__________________
"IN GOD WE TRUST"

Cops have always looked like cops. I could spot them in the late 70's and 80's as easily as now. Hair long, but not too long, moustache, the grip of a model 36 with rubber bands peeking out of the waistband....or black plastic Barami hip grips.....Cheap sports coat for the dicks. Lots of people besides cops have that shaved head look now.

What's wrong with the high and tight look?

Ever see Pete and Jim on Adam-12 when they get called out for some tactical situation? Goofy looking black jump suits, black baseball hats and big heavy vests with two loose straps to criss cross over your back to hold them sort of on. And that was late 60's?

Because they have a strong union? Nothing new there. I worked for a place that had cops working the uniform store, vehicle maintenance, pop and potato chip machine/grass cutting, evidence room, clerk, switchboard operator...and that goes back to the 60's too.

That makes about as much sense as saying real cops don't need to carry radios or "Who needs a computer when we have hot sheets"? Tasers are an excellent piece of equipment. I don't carry one personally but I've seen them in action and they're well worth having around.