charter arms undercover .38 quetsions.

The Dude

The Dude

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just wondering, i just picked up a revolver from my grandfather and was hoping you guys may be able to answer a few questions. first of all, its a snub nose 38 that has bridgeport conn. on the right side of the barrel, undercover 38 on the other side. ill post pics when i can. its blued finish, and has smooth walnut grips with the scroll type logo in them. the sn is 1774xx. its in good shape and i was wondering if there is any way to date this thing. and maybe any way to tell if it can handle +p ammo or not. i dont know much about these guys except that there were some more made later on that i hear were not of good quality. anyone have any info on these old dogs? thanks guys.

josh
 
I have one I purchased while stationed at Ft Benning Ga in 1977, used and have nothing to say but good things about it. I bought it for my wife to keep in the nightstand while I was overseas. It was smaller than my chief's special so it fit her better. I have never shot +p in it but it is built like a vault so I would not be afraid to load some if I was carrying it. Don't think I would shoot more than a cylinder full to get a feel for them. I'm afraid they might be a little stout in it. just my opinion. Mike
 
thanks man. im cleaning it now and it seems like its built very good. i hear some of the newer ones were not on par as the older models. so far im liking what i see in it. thanks again.
 
My personal experience is that Charter Arms' quality control was very spotty. Some were okay, others, not so much. To be fair, a few I've seen were "misused" in that shooting full house .357 Magnum loads out of a light weight framed piece on a consistent basis is asking for problems. I had a friend who was a LEO and carried one as a back-up. He had to get special permission as the only official back-ups were either Colts or S&W - my buddy had a chronically sick child, so money was tight, and his Chief was an understanding guy. So he got to carry the lower priced Charter Arms until he could afford a Colt or S&W. Funny thing was once he could upgrade, he didn't want to - for whatever reason.

Best of luck,

Dave
 
I bought one when they first came out, shot it a lot, and it worked fine. I preferred the Smiths though. I got rid of it for an airweight Smith.

Still have one that was poorly stored. It lives in my console and works perfectly.

Bob
 
I have #4978**.Great revolver.No way to date it that i know of.I carry +p's,and shoot regular .38's from it.It's my 2nd. carry gun after my S&W.The later ones were hit & miss[no pun intended!].
 
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I have an "undercover 38 special" #25366, used & carried regularly since about 1968.

Steel barrel, cylinder, frame, with alloy trigger guard & gripframe.
Loaded with 158 gr. service ammo. it weighs 18 1/2 oz.

Finish is 20% or less, mechanical function is 100% as always. In 23 years of nearly daily carry, it has had no failures or breakages. None, zip, nada! Has been carried thousands of miles & shot thousands of rounds & definately my favorite.

Jim
 
thanks again guys for the info. i didnt really think that +p ammo should hurt it since some of the loads i will be shooting are not much more potent than the regular factory loads i normally shoot. but the higher chamber pressures are what caused me to ask. i plan on keeping this little thing and ill post some pics when i get some new batteries. and i def. want to get some better grips cuz these things are tiny and my huge hands may have a time gripping it.

anyone have an idea to where i may be able to get a date of manufacture? ive searched the net for info but was unable to come up with anything close.
 
I had a mid-'80s one that was great, and a late '80s one that was not. No idea as to your date of make - pix might help, but I don't know of anyone who'd care enough to keep a SN list except maybe the latest incarnation of the company. Can't imagine that plus-P .38s would hurt it.
 
Ive been lucky so far I have 3 Charter .44s and actually they perform very well, one is in my truck console all the time. Then I have a little 3 inch .22 pathfinder with adjustable sights and its a great little gun. Not S&W's but good for what they are.
 
I'm no expert, but as I understand it, Bridgeport was the original home of Charter Arms, so yours is probably one of the older ones. I've got a Stafford, Conn gun, which is where the factory next moved to. To the best of my knowledge there is no real way to tell exactly when a gun was made, other than rough estimate.

Over the years Charter Arms has been bought and sold several times. The ones marked as "Charco" and "Charter 2000" are considered "hit and miss" on the quality (if not downright poor). The company once again is in the hands of the original family at this time, and although I've never shot one of the current production models, the ones I've looked at seem to be well made.

The one I've got shoots just fine but with those tiny wooden grips it will batter my knuckles bloody, even with wadcutter loads. I contacted Charter, and was told the current crop of neoprene grips will fit the older guns. They are a HUGE improvement. Yes, you give up some concealibility, but they're worth the trade-off. About $25.00 from Charter. They'll fit most any holster made for a J frame Smith.

100_0174.jpg
 
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I bought my wife a new 2" Charter Arms Lavender Lady .38 in December 2010 and we have been very satisfied with it thus far. +P ammunition can be a tad "brisk" though.

Kenny
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bobell01ATaolDOTcom

E-mail Jim at the above address (substituting the proper symbols, of course) with your serial number and model and any other info you may have. He is compiling a Charter Arms Data base and will be able to give you an appx date. He has already written a book about H&R.

Adios,

Pizza Bob
 
i checked all the screws and i couldnt get them to turn any with the slightest force. the only one i am curious about is the one inside the cylinder housing. its tiny and it looks as it may come loose with some shooting, so i tightend it down a tad and then the clyinder wouldnt open. went to far. i think i may loctite it into place where it is able to get the cylinder open with ease. anyone else have to do this? ill post pics as soon as i get them uploaded. this little thing is pretty neat.
 
CajunBass said:
with those tiny wooden grips it will batter my knuckles bloody, even with wadcutter loads.
Click to expand...

On mine, the thumb piece on the cylinder release would bite my thumb. I took it off - the gun works fine without it. You just pull the ejector rod forward to unlock the cylinder. This is only for the early models with the unshrouded ejector rod.
 
cowboy117 said:
I have #4978**.Great revolver.No way to date it that i know of.I carry +p's,and shoot regular .38's from it.It's my 2nd. carry gun after my S&W.The later ones were hit & miss[no pun intended!].
Click to expand...

1st Generation Charter Arms Corp. reached 500,000 pieces produced in August 1979. Your piece with s/n 4978xx (I hate those x's for research reasons, LOL) was probably made sometime during the preceding two months.
The UNDERCOVER and OFFDUTY models of that time were specifically not rated for +P ammo (stated in their catalogues) - the POLICE variations, 6 shot .38s made on the larger Bulldog frame were rated for +P, as this frame and cylinder combo was also chambered for 5 shots of .357 Mag or .44 Special.
 
cussedemgun said:
I have an "undercover 38 special" #25366, used & carried regularly since about 1968.

Steel barrel, cylinder, frame, with alloy trigger guard & gripframe.
Loaded with 158 gr. service ammo. it weighs 18 1/2 oz.

Finish is 20% or less, mechanical function is 100% as always. In 23 years of nearly daily carry, it has had no failures or breakages. None, zip, nada! Has been carried thousands of miles & shot thousands of rounds & definately my favorite.

Jim
Click to expand...

s/n 25366 (I love full serial numbers for research purposes) is a very early piece - probably made during 1967 at the latest - production began in 1965, but I don't know exactly when and I don't know (yet) the volume produced during those early years. I would like to know where the serial number is stamped and whether the right side of the barrel has the "BRIDGEPORT CONN" stamp on it, please. This gun was made right around the point where that stamping was beginning to be used.
 
The Dude said:
i checked all the screws and i couldnt get them to turn any with the slightest force. the only one i am curious about is the one inside the cylinder housing. its tiny and it looks as it may come loose with some shooting, so i tightend it down a tad and then the clyinder wouldnt open. went to far. i think i may loctite it into place where it is able to get the cylinder open with ease. anyone else have to do this? ill post pics as soon as i get them uploaded. this little thing is pretty neat.
Click to expand...

That "little" screw is the ejector rod adjustment screw - kind of unique to the Charter Arms guns - it is used to take up slack and allow easy opening of the cylinder with cylinder release button. It should be adjusted so that it is just flush with the recoil shield. If you locktite it, you lose the ability to adjust the system as it ages.
 
Here is the data I have for Charter Arms, at this date. It will help defray some confusion and hopefully help CA owners somewhat:

The very first Charter Arms Corporation production began in 1965 in BRIDGEPORT CONN - earliest pieces - mostly Undercover model will have either NO address on the right side of the barrel or will have BRIDGEPORT CONN
Around 1974, address was changed to STRATFORD CONN - all pieces made after mid 1974 will be marked with that address on the right side of the barrel and all will have CHARTER ARMS CORP. as the first line. Sometime in 1991, Charter Arms Corp. ceased operations. This was the end of the FIRST GENERATION.
Around early 1992, the company was re-organized under new leadership and became known as Charter Arms Company - CHARCO, and was located in ANSONIA CONN. All second generation pieces will be marked on the right side of the barrel with that name and address in two lines. This is the SECOND generation and apparently the period which caused the most damage to the Charter name and reputation.
In 2000, the company was again reorganized as CHARTER 2000 and relocated to SHELTON CONN. All pieces made during this THIRD generation will be marked with the SHELTON address. Early production of this generation seems to have been spotty and reputation still lagged. About a year and a half ago, the company re-reorganized under the direction of MKS Marketing and seems now to be if not flourishing at least it is progressing in quality and market share.
From the limited data set that I have been able to assemble so far the following serialization seems to be valid: (NOTE: model name and caliber will be stamped on left side of barrel on all pieces)

FIRST GENERATION
0001 - <15000 Bridgeport 1964 - ? CHARTER ARMS CORP. right side of barrel marking only
~15000 - <315,000 ? - ~1965 CHARTER ARMS CORP. over BRIDGEPORT CONN .marking
~316,000 - <1,088,000 - ~1974 to 1991 - CHARTER ARMS CORP. over STRATFORD CONN. marking

SECOND GENERATION
>1,090,000 - ??? 1992 - 2000? CHARCO over ANSONIA CONN- marking

THIRD GENERATION
000001 - to date 2000 - 2011 CHARTER ARMS 2000 over SHELTON CONN marking.

This is the updated serial number info that I have - based upon around 800 data points
The earliest 1st Gen - ~0 to ~15,000 have NO barrel ADDRESS and s/n is on lower right corner on right side of frame. CA company founded in 1964, first production pieces of the Undercover model produced in 1965
Bridgeport CONN address - ~15000 to ~315,000 1967 - 1969
Stratford CONN address - ~316000 to ~1,090,000 1970 - ~1991
All marked as Charter Arms Corporation

2nd Generation - CHARCO, Ansonia Conn adress - 1,090,000 to ??? ~1991 - 1999

3rd Generation - CHARTER 2000 - Shelton Conn - 0 to where ever they are today.

From the 26 pieces in my collection (all 1st Gen) and from dozens more that I've had the opportunity to observed and fondle, I'd say that around s/n 600,000 the finish was made a lot finer - although the integrals (lock work, action) was at least as good as the earlier ones. I have or have read magazine articles that cover pretty much of the production life of the 1st Generation, and during that period (around late 1980, early 1981) it seems that CA attempted to capture more of the market by doing so, also in April of 1981, they introduced Stainless Steel revolvers into the mix, for the first time. Some of the articles lamented that the earlier pieces, although rough finish, were rather inexpensive (~60-65% of S&W) and when CA began their "modernization" process, the finishes got better but the prices increased to about 85 to 90% of the S&W line for comparable models.
During the 2nd Generation, the CHARCO (Charter Arms COMPANY), under new management and reorganized, the quality was definitely more spotty and haphazard. I've seen CHARCO produced guns with Stratford marked barrels, obviously using up old stock.
The earliest CHARTER 2000 pieces I had the opportunity to handle (some fairly early 4 digits s/ns - were uniformly, poorly fitted and finished and had some horrendous and gritty actions. That seems to have been rectified under MKS's (circa 2008) new leadership and the most recent pieces I've handled - s/n's in the high 100,000 range have been "decent" but not as fine in finish and action as the mid years of the 1st Generation. This is simply my studied opinion based upon experience.


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