The wife and I just got back from a week in Pagosa Springs CO. We flew from Dallas to Albuquerque and drove a rental to CO.

I checked my pistol in Dallas: plastic case designed for pistol transport with a lock. No problem in Dallas save for the exasperated look the Southwest representative gave me. The check in lines were very long and I was slowing the line.

Coming home from Albuquerque the Southwest representative started pulling on the pistol case from every angle you can imagine. He was able to pry the case open sufficiently to see the pistol inside. At that point he informed me that the TSA would not let the pistol fly due to the case. We are both being very calm and I explained that the TSA approved the same case from Dallas and if I had to leave the airport to find a FFL dealer to ship the pistol I would almost certainly miss my flight.

At this point, Michael the SW rep, said that if we could drill another hole in the case, place another lock, then maybe the TSA would accept the case. My wife pulled out another lock from her purse (that woman and her purse - what a life saver!). Michael says he has a drill in the back, takes the case and drills another hole. We put the second lock on the case and check the bag. Michael asks us to stay put while he walks the bag over to the TSA. In a couple of minutes Michael comes out and gives us a thumbs up. Whew.

Michael never got anxious or upset, but just focused on helping us get home. Good customer service.

Passing through security at Albuquerque they were using the new body imaging equipment. All of this got me to wondering if someone within Homeland Security has determined that Albuquerque is a high risk access point for terrorists?

Out
West

Common sense is out of style. In my 35 years of working security I went by my nose and maybe by a touch of my own rules every shift. Some others that I worked with had no common sense or maybe were afraid to use it and went by the book that some one that couldnt know every senerio and condition that does happen wrote. It was odd. I will say that I never got in trouble makeing my own decisions, but the guys that had no mind of their own and were afraid to go with their nose were in constant trouble. Then their were some that used their "authority" to continuely harass people! I got a thousand storys of it.

Was the pistol case also enclosed in a hard sided lockable suitcase?

Though it appears, based on your account, that you were not in violation of TSA requirements, I always travel with a lockable plastic case that is inside a lockable suitcase.

I generally post an account of my airline travels whilst toting. Am in San Diego currently and will provide another update upon my return home tomorrow. (Traveled here via Pittsburgh; never a problem(s) there.)

Be safe.

Fair question to which the answer is yes. The SW rep told me not to lock the suitcase. Additionally, in the past when checking a firearm the TSA has instructed me not to lock my suitcase.

I guess I don't understand the rules.

Out
West

I've flown from Portland, ME and Manchester, NH to Tucson with a handgun several times and never had any issues whatsoever. I guess I've been lucky! I transport the gun in a small Pelican case with a padlock, placed inside my soft-sided unlock suitcase, and declaring the gun barely even slows thing down when checking my baggage. For the record I've always flown Delta or Southwest. In New England they want me to show the gun is clear, in Tucson they don't even want to see that. My statement that the gun is clear is good enough. These are not TSA officials I have dealt with, they are airline employees and they've always been good.

Here's my solution:

DRIVE.

My wife and I just recently went from Phoenix to the Denver area for our grandson's high school graduation.

I was armed the whole time, since both NM and CO honor Arizona permits. We saw great scenery. I took lots of beautiful pictures. We took everything we needed - no extra baggage charges. The cost including an overnight stay in a motel in Albuquerque (each way) was a wash with the airline fare.

No one patted us down, x-rayed us, or told us we couldn't pack. We took along nail clippers, and I also had a nice Benchmade, just for giggles.

I don't play their silly game any more if I don't have to.

John

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- Cogito, ergo armatus sum -

You can drive from Cowtown to Pagosa Springs in one day. Seems much simpler to me, but then again, I drive for a living and understand that some folks don't like to drive that far/much.

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Insert short witty words here

Short answer...more tomorrow night.

I use a Samsonite hard sided bag (with wheels and a handle) that has TSA combo locks. Contrary to several who have challenged me herein (in other posts...not this one) that is perfectly okay with the TSA folks. Locking such a bag still enables TSA to open it without doing damage. They do open bags sometimes. They have opened my bag at PIT last two trips. I was mere feet away; they open it!

Airports sites vary. e.g. In Pittsburgh, you personally walk your bag from airline check-in to the TSA site. Ditto Denver. They are steps apart. In Chattanooga, your bag goes away after it leaves the airline agent's hands...ditto Baltimore.

Hope this helps. More tomorrow...

Be safe.

ABQ has had the magic imaging stuff since pretty early - Sandia Labs (where it was invented) is attached to the airbase that the airport abuts.

My brother had a similar issue with his case on SWA leaving ABQ. A TSA guy actually gave him a second lock so that he could secure the case, which allowed him to catch his plane back to Indy. (I try to bring this up anytime someone says all TSA guys are evil or stupid or whatever.)

I now recommend that anyone traveling with a handgun lock it in one of those portable, cable-down car safes (Center of Mass made the ones that I use, but they're all over now). I cable it to the structural support of the suitcase, just to make stealing it more difficult. No one will be prying the safe open, and you can use the safe to secure your handgun at your destination in your rental or to the plumbing, etc., if need be for some reason.

Several years back, TSA agents stole some stuff from my bag in Nashville. I'd sure hate to hand those thieves a handgun I liked.

So the deal is TSA must be able to open the outer suitcase, but if they want to check out the pistol, which must be in a locked case, they need you to open it, right? And the ammo should be in the factory box it came in and located outside the gun case but inside same suitcase, right?

Only the hardsided gun box has to be locked after the tsa checks it as well if they wish to do so. I only showed my revolver to the luggage check in clerk ,I closed the box but did not lock it. I was instructed to take my bag to tsa check in where the bag and gun box was wiped for ion scan. After he cleared the scan,he locked the box with the regular locks and then locked the bag with my tsa locks before my eyes and the bag was placed on the conveyor and dissapeared to join the other luggage on my flight.

Unless there is a big pond of water (Atlantic or Pacific) I need to get over, I drive. I stopped putting up with the government nonsense years ago after a friend of mine retired from the P.D. as a Detective Sergeant and later in the year applied to TSA to work part time and was told he wasn't qualified after 31 years as a LEO and they were hiring. I knew then it was all show and they really didn't want people who knew what they were doing.

TSA: Traveling with Special Items

Firearms and Ammunition

Outdoor enthusiasts should carefully prepare and pack to avoid removal of prohibited items from checked baggage or surrendering prohibited items at the security checkpoint.Firearms, ammunition and firearm parts may only be transported in checked baggage. Firearms, ammunition and firearm parts are prohibited from carry-on baggage.

There are certain limited exceptions for law enforcement officers (LEOs) who are authorized to fly armed by meeting the requirements of 49 CFR § 1544.219.

Following is a summary of key regulatory requirements to transport firearms, firearm parts or ammunition in checked baggage:

All firearms must be declared to the air carrier during the ticket counter check-in process.
The firearm must be unloaded.
The firearm must be carried in a hard-sided container.
The container must be locked.
The passenger must provide the key or combination to the screener if it is necessary to open the container, and then remain present during screening to take back possession of the key after the container is cleared.
Any ammunition transported must be securely packed in fiber (such as cardboard), wood or metal boxes or other packaging specifically designed to carry small amounts of ammunition.
Firearm magazines/clips do not satisfy the packaging requirement unless they provide a complete and secure enclosure of the ammunition (e.g., by securely covering the exposed portions of the magazine or by securely placing the magazine in a pouch, holder, holster or lanyard).
The ammunition may also be located in the same hard-sided case as the firearm, as long as it is properly packed as described above.
Black powder and percussion caps used with black-powder type firearms are not permitted in carry-on or checked baggage.

Not, exactly.

TSA does NOT need to be able to open any suitcase/pistol case. They can/will, however. In the instances where I have been present for the TSA screening they have never looked at the gun. Never. Airline agents do...sometimes.

With that understood, I use a TSA CABLE LOCK ON THE GUN CASE AND THE TSA LOCKS ON THE SUITCASE.

That may not have been clear on my posts within this thread.

When I get home tomorrow night (or early Tuesday) I will post actual photos of the very case/suitcase used for my commercial airlines travels.

Stand by, please.

Be safe.

With all this discussion about TSA coupled with the horror story about the 95 year old cancer patient having her diaper removed by TSA I wonder if the terrorists have already won??

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Forum consigliere

Sorry for the late response...

Flew from Pittsburgh to San Diego last Thursday. As again @ PIT, no problems whatsoever. One difference; US Airways agent simply asked to see the gun case...orange tag was placed on top...case NOT opened. Personally took the suitcase to TSA just steps away. They opened the suitcase...checked for whatever it is they check for with the swabs...no issues.

Flew home yesterday. Check-in @ SAN found the agent wanting to see my 642; no issues, though. Orange tag here goes in the gun case. And the suitcase goes away immediately with the caveat TSA may page if they have a problem(s.) (I have cell contact info on bag tag, in suitcase, and in gun case.) Off I went...

Arrived @ PIT after a plane change @ PHX. AT SOME POINT THE SUITCASE WAS OPENED. No evidence the gun case was, too.

Here's the gun case that is with the suitcase; note the ammo was secured in the plastic case from whence it came. TSA likes original packaging for ammo.



Here's the case, closed. Note the TSA cable lock.



Here's the Samsonite suitcase that held the gun case...TSA locks here, too.



Remember, TSA OPENED my suitcase at some point. Absent TSA locks they would have busted it open and likely would have canceled the bag's travels.

TSA DID NOT STEAL ANYTHING. They never have, and I travel regularly. Nobody has.

Not sure I can say anything more than I HAVE TRAVELED CLOSE TO ONE MILLION MILES. Bags have occasionally been delayed; nothing EVER stolen. Nope.

Be safe.

I've been wondering the same thing for quite a while now.

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In dog years I'm dead.

I frequently fly with handguns in my luggage.

Handgun in padlocked (non-TSA) gun case. Open at check-in for inspection and receive red tag. Relock case and insert back into TSA-locked suitcase.

I returned tonight from a round trip, Phoenix/Lansing, MI ---
Delta agent at PHX, when I asked for a "firearms tag" discreetly produced one, without fuss or bother, watched while I tossed it into the soft luggage containing the locked hard-sided handgun case, and directed me to the TSA screening area, where the TSA agent ignored the gun case but thoroughly probed the bag with numerous swabs, cleared it, and sent it on its way. Earlier this evening, a United ticket agent at Lansing insisted, over my objection, that the orange firearms "declaration" tag had to be placed inside the gun case itself, not just inside the soft luggage. He never "inspected" the gun's condition, ammo packaging etc., simply made an incorrect assertion about rules he obviously didn't understand and hadn't been properly trained in. Two TSA agents were within earshot of the conversation, and gave the bag a perfunctory once-over in their mysterious "X-Ray" machine, and then gave me a thumbs-up OK.

Point is, I guess, that despite fairly well codified rules and regulations, you risk running into hurdles presented by ill-trained employees who don't understand the rules they think they are supposed to enforce. Be prepared to argue with them, and be prepared with printouts of their own published policies ... Don't assume that they are functionally literate, or, that they will be swayed by some vaguely comprehended writing, and call for supervisory intervention if need be... These inconsistent procedures illustrate inconsistent policies and "rogue" employees. No point picking a fight over a trivial inconvenience, but when know-nothing employees put your flight schedule or property at risk, you should be armed with the facts.

Re: the orange tag, at various times I have been instructed to "put it inside the gun case," "put it in the suitcase anywhere," place it adjacent to the gun case," have it taped (their tape) to the gun case.

That part bothers me nary a whit.

A few airline agents have "inspected" the gun to ensure it was unloaded. They simply asked me to show them; doubt they knew how to open the cylinder...or, formerly, operate the slide of my 9mm.

To the poster who uses soft luggage. That is permitted per TSA regs, but I don't like to do so. Think the hard luggage and the hard gun case afford extra safety. Your choice, though, as it is okay to do so.

REMEMBER, AIRPORT/AIRLINE PROCEDURES DO VARY A BIT. In particular, as I have explained, at some airports you personally convey your suitcase to the TSA checkpoint. At other airports your suitcase leaves you immediately at the ticket counter. With the latter in mind, be sure to listen for your name to be called if you didn't use TSA locks and they want to further inspect your luggage or the gun. I also have my cell phone number on the luggage tag and gun case.

Hope this and the previous posts answer some questions and allay some fears.

Be safe.

It's been years before 9/11 since I've flown. Personally, I don't like the idea of any of my luggage being unlocked. I don't trust airport personnel anymore than parking lot watch salesmen. If my bag is inspected when I check it in, and locked, then nobody needs to look in it for any reason, period. I'd just go unarmed before I'd even want them to know I had a gun, especially a nice one. And I really don't give a flying flip what their reasons, laws, or company policies are.

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Wayne
Torn & Frayed

I'm driving as long as I'm on the continental U.S. I'm closing in on a million miles driven and I'm in my 6th Suburban.

You bring up an interesting point. The rules clearly state that the decleration be placed inside the gun case unless the gun case is placed in a separate case. In the latter, placing the gun case inside a suit case, one would logically place the decleration in the suit case, but I too have had agents tell me to place the decleration inside the gun case and I politely told them I would place it on top...They usually shrug. So far no TSA person has complained. If the decleration was placed in the gun case which in turn was placed in the suit case, TSA might complain but at least they had the decleration......even trying to get two agents from the same company on the same page is extremely difficult...somone suggested printing out the TSA rules and the airline rules and presenting them to the agent.....I think that's a great idea and I used to do that until I realized that they can read it anyway they want regardless of what it actually says.

Obviously you haven't read the preceding threads. Your bag is NOT inspected at check-in. It MAY be inspected afterwards...sometimes in your presence...often not.

I daresay if you travel with an undeclared firearm you WILL find yourself in a whole world of trouble.

You don't care; then accept the consequences.

Be safe.

Sorry Big D, I didn't mean for my post to be taken quite that way. I said "If" my bag was inspected, and I meant a bag with a gun. I would never try to slip a firearm through an airport, in any circumstance, that's why I said I would just go unarmed. I want all my luggage locked, in any airport, no matter what's inside. I try to be a law abiding citizen, and if I don't like the law, then I'll gripe about it and avoid being in a situation where I don't like the restrictions. Kind of like going to Canada. I don't like their attitude about Americans carrying guns, so I won't go there. I certainly wouldn't try to sneak one across their border.

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Wayne
Torn & Frayed

I drive. Only my wife gets to frisk me. And I don't mind that at all.

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I hope I copied that right

I hesitate to comment at all, but I have nothing good to say about TSA. I think the whole agency should be dismantled and then rebuilt from scratch. They seem to have no rules by which they live, getting accountability from them is impossible. They do what ever they want to, to whomever they want to, when they want to. We'd all be a lot safer getting metal detected and then sniffed by a couple of well trained dogs. It'd be a heck of a lot cheaper for the tax payer too.

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Geoff. Since 1960.

Understand...and my bad as misinterpreted. I am sorry.

Be safe.

I've been in law enf for 30 yrs and swear the TSA is a joke. False security, scared to profile. I recently flew out of St Louis. Declared a gun and got patted down besides the full body x ray scan. Leaving Ketchikan. AK they swabbed my hand. For drugs I guess. Both were probably random and I was the victim. What a total friggin waste of everyone's time.

If there ever was any point in or useful purpose of signing and dating the UNLOADED FIREARM declaration, it is, now, certainly an anachronism, since all luggage is subject to TSA scrutiny, unavailable to potential terrorist travelers once checked, and so forth --- the nonsensical procedure of filling out the form, and the even more nonsensical policy of some airlines to have clueless ticket agents "inspecting" firearms in a crowded public place with no safe direction to point a firearm while manipulating it to show it "clear" to persons unqualified to "inspect" guns, is now even more ridiculous than ever. It was a foolish policy before 9/11, now it's farcical. If anyone among us knows the whys and wherefores and origins of this silly procedure, I, for one, and likely others, would like to know them. Please post...