We just had a pair of dog attacks locally recently. Turns out it was the same pair of dogs, both pitbulls. Nothing against pitbulls, but I know when my wife and I used to go walking I used to carry my .38 snub with some hardcast 158 grainers or 170's SWC because I want the bullet to penetrate if I can get a head shot. I know a full size dog at a dead run is a hard target to hit, harder than a running deer.

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Vaya con Dios

Whatever I happen to be carrying.
My newly purchased 9mm is the least powerful handgun I own, so I figure any of them will be fine against whatever I run into while I am out and about.
The problem with Pitts is usually the owners.
I have never seen a more gentle and loving dog, but I have seen them that the owners have turned them into 4 legged weapons.


Jim

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Big bullets leave big holes

It's been discussed here a few times. The general consensus seems to be that most carry some type of firearm. Some carry pepper spray or a stick in addition.

I carry a j frame or small 9MM when I walk. I also carry an ASP baton. Carry it openly in my hand. I would rather persuade to dog to leave before I have to shoot it.

I used it once with a very big pitbull. Tried to eat my little dog. I reined in my dogs leash and waited for the pit to come closer. I couldn't have hit him harder right between the eyes. He left and he lived.

My only regret is that the same dog attacked and killed another dog a week later. The owner of that dog was too busy listening to her ipod to hear or see the pit coming.

Personally I think a good strong walking stick or baton is a definate advantage of pepper spray.

I disagree Evil. But since you brought it up, lets not turn this thread into a pitbull lover or hater thread.

A PB was on a dead run headed for my 1 year old Lab. We were in my yard. He was so fixated on my lab that he didn't appear to see me. I kicked him so hard in the throat that I saw stars from the pain of my right foot. It lasted seconds and the PB went from a dead run to flying four feet backwards. He was choking and I put the boots to him again. The owner came around the corner and scooped him up still choking. He started to open his mouth and I informed him I could have shot him (the Pit bull), or I could call the police and my lawyer. He agreed quickly to keep him on a chain from now on and not let his "child"(@45lbs) put him out on the rope. I'm glad I didn't get chewed on, but the thought didn't enter my mind 'til it was over. Two dogs would have been a different story. Please don't use spray. It does not work. Use a weapon of some sort or put the boots to them if you can. Good luck

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Go big or stay home

Be careful. I witnessed a guy who tried to kick a pit and damn near lost a leg. The guy was unarmed and had nothing to fight with while walking his dog. Since his left hand was occupied by his leashed dog, all he could do was kick or hit with his right hand. The pit bit his upper right arm and then his leg at the ankle. Almost crushed his ankle. Prior to being bit, the guy picked up a steel stop sign pole that was laying in the grass. Hit the pit bull HARD right on top of the head. The pit dropped then bounced up immediately shaking his head and continued the fight.

A baton stun gun stopped the fight.

Also, I have a serious dislike of owners who let their dogs run loose.
I dont care if its a pom, pit, basset, or a doberman.
Keep the animal contained and/or controlled.


Jim

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Big bullets leave big holes

Lots of Pitts and other fighting dogs in my area.My wife was walking my Giant Schnauzer when he was a pup.The Pitt down the street was out and was eyeballing my boy.She ducked in another yard across the street that had 3 large mixed breeds.Thank God they were in and the home owner saw what was going on.She called me and I flew down the street with our Explorer and my 12g.I used the car as a shield and told her to get in.I would have blown that dog to high heaven.
He attacked my old Briard when he was sick and luck was my dog was tougher than I knew.He kept the Pitt away from his neck by spinning and using his weight to keep him off.Thank God the owner got in the mix,He wouldn't have been able to keep him off much longer.

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Dum vivo cano

I find this dog thread timely due to my recent incident with a dog, which happened to be a pit bull.

Have been riding my mountain bike several times a week in preparation for a big bike event 4th of July weekend. I live out in the country, and as I ride by a certain home about a mile from my place a pit bull regularly bails off the front porch and chases me as I ride by and I can typically step up the speed a bit and out run it. Problem is, when I come back by about 30 - 45 minutes later the dog has learned to wait on me closer to the road in ambush. The past few times it actually nips at my feet on the bike.

A couple of weeks ago I was on my way home from work and decided to stop by the dog owners house for a friendly visit and just kindly advise the nice people that their dog is somewhat of a menace and they might want consider a little closer control of the cute little fellow. Well, I couldn't even get out of the car with the dog angrily barking and jumping up on the side my car trying to get into the driver window. The owner came out hollering and beat the dog off with a switch. I got out, introduced myself and said my piece. The dog owner said that 'Fluffy' was a kindly dog and would not hurt a fly and just loved to play with all the bikes and tractors and cars that went by the house. "Okay," says I, "nice to meet you."

Next afternoon I ride by and 'Fluffy' is laying in wait and is right up in my business nipping at my feet. I speed up and outrun her. On the return trip she's again laying in wait and this time actually bites my foot. When I stopped to kick her off she very aggressively in my business and I had to put the bike between her and I to keep her off of me. After several minutes of being on the defensive I finally got enough distance between us to remount the bike and speed away.

When I got home, I changed clothes, strapped on my 1911 loaded with Golden Sabers, and a couple of spare magazines. As I walked the mile back down the road I called the sheriff's office and asked if they'd send a deputy out to discuss a disturbance with me and gave them the address of the dog. As I got withing about 50 yards of the house the dog came out into the roadway and charged my direction barking. When he got within 10 yards I shot it three times in the head. The .45's left a lot of blood splatter, all of it in the roadway.

Dog owner came running out about same time as deputy pulled up. I tell the story to the deputy, who I knew. Owner is pitching a fit and asking deputy what he's going to do about this. Deputy advises he'll write up a report, otherwise he plans to do nothing other than give me a ride home.

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I carry a 9 Iron in addition to my Glock 19 when walking where there might be mean ol' dogs. I also carry a can of OC.
I once had a misdemeanor warrant for a dude and I went up to his front door and he was letting his German Shepard out the back door. The dog came around the side of the house at a full run and I hit it with a blast from my OC. Dog had a hard time seeing me, as he was spending all his time rubbing his eyeballs in the grass. I showed up a few more times to serve the warrant, but the minute he saw my black and white, he headed for the back yard. Dog had a healthy respect for black and whites and blue uniforms.

Rule 303

I have loved dogs, especially large breed dogs, all of my life.

And I have absolutely no use or tolerance for aggressive dogs.

A heavy walking stick/cane. If that fails, a .38 spl. "Airweight" in my pocket.
So far I've only had to use the stick once, which is a good thing. If I ever had to use the gun I know a catagory 5 poo poo storm would desend upon me no matter how justified the use was.

Yes I do also always carry a cell phone, but I don't think I'd have much luck punching in 911 while Fido uses me for a chew toy.

As far as "Pitt Bulls" go, the guy next door has one. She has almost licked me to death several times. I don't think they are all mean.

Rotts had the rep a few years ago, before that Dobys & German shepards. If you are a "old time" movie fan you have seen that in the 20's & 30's people seemed to think English bulldogs were killers.

You'd get a kick out of mine.Very social and only aggressive when something is out of the norm.

The trick is in the training.I swear we could turn any dog to mush.

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Dum vivo cano

Just a "Heads Up" on shooting Pitbulls.
Dispatched to a "Bad Dog" call. Exited my patrol vehicle and approached the dog owner's home. Suddenly three pitbulls attacked me. Double tapped each one in the chest with Speer .40cal 180gr JHPs. Bullets did not stop the dogs. The sound of the gun shots turned them from their attack. Dogs hunted down and dispatched with 12 gauges after back up arrived and Jimmy changed his diaper. Lesson learned: On "Bad Dog" calls exit vehicle with 12 gauge.

For those not familiar . . . I feel that this should be required reading for ALL dog owners.

The Monks of New Skete have been at it for a long time and their whole non-violent training approach is based upon praise and reward.

And it works.

When has a kit we had a Pit Bull on our street. He would chase after us when we were riding bikes. One night a walked by his house and when he came charging out I threw him a hot dog. He never bothered me again. Any time I walked by his house at night, he would come out to let me pet him.

A big old +1.

I always try to make friends with all dogs.I'm in the service trade and have to go in yards when the dogs are loose.To me its party time because I know that most dogs are cool.I carry treats!It's when the customer is an introvert or shady or?That the dogs are too.

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Dum vivo cano

This is a FAST way to end up dead...

It could have been, just as you were shooting the dog, the owner pulls his double barrel shotgun/glock/jennings/ak and empties a mag into YOU.

Officer friendly shows up and the dog owner tell his tale of the angry man with a gun shooting his dog and fearing for his safety, you lose.

Now I guess you just need to wonder if this dog owner is a psychopath that will burn down your house while you sleep.

Could be. Fueding over a lot less in Arkansas is not unheard of. In this case the Hatfields (us) way outnumber the McCoys (them). I have already chosen a new bike route, just in case though.

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That's a real problem and I've pondered this many times.I guess if I'm willing to shoot a dog I gotta think about how willing I am to shoot an irate owner.
Think,Protect and get out of Dodge.If not then its their problem.

NOT GOOD

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Dum vivo cano

Wheelgun28, you are totally correct, yet there comes a time when enough is enough and a stand has to be taken,damn the Consequences.

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Always Stay Strong!

I've been MAULED by a large dog. (German Shepard)
That was about 50 years ago and I still have trouble with one bite site.

I own, and always carry a handgun (legally) when I'm outside.
My anti-dog medicine is either a +p38 from an M49 or a .45 ball.

I will NOT be bit again... You do what you think is right when a dog is attacking or attempting to attack you or someone else. But I believe you're better off having a solid plan beforehand. I have such a plan.

BTW - We have 3 dogs now and I've owned and/or lived with dogs since I was a kid. I love dogs. But I never want to go through that again - Nor will I if I can help it.

BTW (again) Once said dog is actively doing a number on you it's very hard to do anything about it. Be proactive!

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In dog years I'm dead.

Gun or no, if I anticipate dog issue, I carry a can of bear spray. Not the 6$ pepper stuff, but real BEAR spray. Cost is $40-60, so is not a minor thing.

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Incoming fire has right of way

I have a big american bulldog that some people think is a pit. He is never out except when my gsp manages to open the gate. He will run up to people but only to be petted. Be a shame if someone was quick on the trigger and shot him because of pit bull hysteria.

My father has deliver home heating oil ever since I can remember. He loves dogs, and he says there has only been one time where he was concerned about the intentions of a dog. Said #2 heating oil worked pretty good at stopping the attack. Owner wasn't quiet as impressed, but hey their dog was still alive, and wouldn't you know kept inside for future deliveries.

From the thread title, I thought this was going to be a dog training thread. I'll just pass along one tip that worked for me in one instance: homeopathy. My wife brought home Monte, a Shihtzu rescue that had been a breeding stud in a puppy mill. He had lived in a cage and never had contact with other dogs except for the brief occasions when he was called upon to perform. As a result, he was completely unsocialized to dogs or humans. He was extremely fearful, and would snap at or bite anyone who came close.

A homeopath friend of my wife's prescribed stramonium, an extract of datura. After dosing him twice in the afternoon and evening, and once again in the morning, Monte was completely transformed. He would let me pet him, and within a day or so would approach to be petted. He would mingle with the other dogs without any sign of aggression.

I am not a believer in homeopathy, and am skeptical of such things in general. It is entirely possible that Monte finally got tired of being isolated and unhappy, or that we began treating him differently somehow, but if so, I have been unable to detect what it was. All I know is that with a dog, there can be no placebo effect. It seems to have worked with Monte.

Back in the early 60s I had a job where we were in and out of yards all day long. In towns, on farms, wherever. Dogs, many dogs, was a all day occurance. Only once did I have to fight off a dog. Dogs can sense at a long distance who they can bully and those they cant. I always had 3 or 4 guys at a time who worked for me. My job was a foreman for a utility pole treating outfit. All my crew carried shovels to dig around the poles. I remember one guy who was terrified of dogs. I swear a farm dog would spot him two hundred yards off and run past three of us guys to go and harass him!
I started to watch my worker to see just what the differance was, why dogs would try to bite him instead of us. I noticed he would walk up to a pole and spot a dog aways off. This guy would stiffen up, get ridged and try to hide behind the pole. The dog would notice that and scratch out right past me and my other boys to go terrorize my petterfied worker!
The trick is to act like that dog is your best friend that you havent seen in a long time. Hopefully, if that dont work, you have a shovel or club handy!

Medicine? 158 grains of 357. Cures them right quick. Regards 18DAI.

in our town you have to have a permit for a rott or pit bull. certain requirements for being contained and controlled. if they get loose and they refuse to be controlled they become instant targets. anytime the police shoot one there is the usual whining by the owner,but in the end, it was the owner's fault the dog got loose. if you want to have one of these animals, use the amount of responsiblility necessary to comply with the law or move out of town. personally, i have no use for any dog that bites and the bigger they are the more i dislike it. a 45acp with 200gr swc at 900fps work real well.

I can't carry a gun when I run, no matter what I've tried, it gets to smacking around. I carry a neck knife. It's a "contact" weapon. If I have to gut a dog, it's obvious why. Been working for 15+ years. Joe

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Wisdom chases me; I'm faster

People just don't want to be responsible for their actions. When the owner is found and asked why the dog is running loose the claim they don't even own a dog.

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It is what it is.

Attacked by two putbulls and one other dog, while mountain biking in the local mountains (national forest). I normally carry a big bore revolver, but for some reason decided not to that day. Would have shot them if I could, but had to defend myself by backing up against a cliff, and keeping the bicycle between myslef and them. Finally....after a long time, their tweaker owners showed up and got them off of me.

So....in the mountains it is bear/lion country, so I normally pack a 329NG. Down in the valley out of bear country, I like the little M&P340 loaded with Hornady 125 gr XTP's.

I won't be bit again either. Been bit twice. Once by a pit and the other a german shepherd. Because of quick reflexes the bites were not as serious as they could have been. But I don't think people completely understand how much is scares you until it happens to them.

I totally adore dogs. But if an owner doesn't want their dog shot, keep it leashed or fenced.

Because I've been bit, I will admit that these days I won't wait to find out if the dog is going to bite me before I shoot.

And I will also admit that pitbulls scare me the most and I may decide to shoot a little quicker. Some may think that's wrong. But don't judge me until after you've been bit.

Wow, I was just thinking about this the other day. Went on a call for an alarm (we call it a 10-89) that involved a big 'ole dog. Got out of the car and a big dog charged at me....not sure what kind of dog it was. The best I could describe it was a pit/boxer mix. I instantly began my draw sequence.....at the same time the homeowner came running out the front door screaming "Don't shoot my dog! He won't bite you....he's all bark no bite! ". She grabbed the dog about .0000000001837465295732838485311345654 seconds before I completed the draw stroke........and the dog bit her.........several times. By the time she got the dog contained in the backyard, I would estimate she received about 3 sebsequent bites. None broke the skin, but they looked AWFULLY painful. I offered to call EMS, but she refused, I think out of embarrassment. I never trust a dog I am unfamiliar with.

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Un-Reconstructed Southerner

These can be friendly, loyal companions, but are often trained to be the opposite. I was nipped by one years ago, and while it really makes not much difference, I was the kicker on my HS FB team, so I gave it a solid boot, sending it away with a scornful look. I don't often carry a firearm, but if so may have used it--you can't read their minds, and when one comes racing your way you haven't exactly got long to consider things.
One of my opinions is that while packing a gun may be illegal for some, owning a pitbull isn't...and while people don't always shoot straight, a dog almost never misses.

just because im sick of all the hate pn pits im reading (not the OWNERS) i have to share my dog bite expierence. it was a damn yellow lab inside a customers house, i was hanging a light fixture and dropped a screw, took a step down off my ladder and the dog came up to me, i bent down and the damn dog bite my wrist QUICK and hard. i snapped my hand back in shock and stood up as it kinda lunged at my face.

the home owners were 2 90 year old people, the lady laughed and as i looked at the dog she came and pulled him away, she had no idea how close she came to not having a dog anymore, the only restraint i had was because they were so old and nice, and that dog was their world, i swear to this day had i kicked that dog, they would have both had heart attacks and died.

it was a messed up situation, not expecting THAT dog to bite, then it "attacked" me, and everything from them dying from my killing their dog to losing my hand, and not being able to work (even temporarely takes food from my family), to *** just happened, it was pretty messed up.

long story short it was a lab, and i had a pit that would like you do death.

poodles have a worse track record in the attack dept. pits just get it worse because of their crazy tolerance for pain.

Yeah, and they're bigger. And stronger. And bite much harder. And sometimes cannot be stopped except when killed outright.

Other than that, I can see how poodle attacks might be worse.

I can't see why you'd go back down knowing there would be a confrontation. Why not just call the police and let them know what had happened. I'm sure they'd have taken care of it along with animal control.

I can see where there might be some confusion with my original story, so I'll break it down into outline form:

- While in public roadway I was aggressively harassed by unleashed dog.

- I determined who the owner of the dog was, and very neighborly expressed my concern about said aggressive dog harassing people in the public roadway.

- Dog owner chose to do nothing to address aggressive unleashed dog.

- Days later, while in public roadway I was physically attacked by same aggressive unleashed dog.

- Though unarmed, I was able to fight off said dog.

- I went home and retrieved my handgun and with premeditated intent went back and killed said dog. Confrontation with dog owner was possible, even probably, but exceptable given the circumstances.

- Police were called and arrived to take incident report. Owner was understandably upset that their unleashed aggressive dog was dead. Sheriff's deputy confirmed that evidence indicated unleashed aggressive dead dog was not on owners property when it met it's demise.

- There is no leash law in this unincorporated area of the county. There is no animal control, there is no animal shelter, there is no dog pound. It's what we in Arkansas call "out in the country."

- In my opinion, the owner came out cheap. A dead dog is much less costly than dealing with charges and/or other legal liability.

- As far as I'm concerned, the problem has been "taken care of".

- Most likely, the owner will just get another dog, let it run loose, and the whole cycle will eventually start over again.

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When I was 19 I worked one summer with Nashville Electric Service in Tennessee nailing tags on power poles. These tag numbers gave the map coordinate and ID number of each pole. They had a strict policy that if there was a bad dog around we were NOT to hang the tag but put the tag in the BAD DOG box so it could be entered onto the maps. That summer I accumulated a box full of BAD DOG tags a couple of them were bad bull tags. On my next to last last day they introduced me to my replacement' another wide eyed young college student. I showed him how to get the tags and how to find the locations of the power poles and how to plan his route. The next day he came in ready to hang pole tags. I opened the cabinet to get him his tags for the day and there was the BAD DOG tag box. I reached in a grabbed him a hand full of those bad dog tags plus the BAD BULL tags and said "here is your first days work." After he left I told everybody in the office what I had done. That afternoon that kid walked in to the office pale, shaking, and looking like hell. We were rolling on the floor! People were coming from all over the building and laughing. It's the best practical joke I have ever played.

You must not have ever seen a Standard poodle. They were the original guard/attack dog. Think 65-100 lbs of aggression. Those little yipping furballs that ride around in Mamas purse are not the same thing at all.

Lead poisoning

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Lost it all in a boat accident

All the dogs in my neighborhood are aggressive; they try to lick you to death!

I'd sneak up behind it and try to gouge out its eyes like the guy in the cheeta thread

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Forum consigliere

A fast pair of running shoes, plus screaming real loud is my defense.
OH! plus a Beretta Model 950 in .22 Short caliber to shoot Penny in the knee where I can get safely away.
(This is also my defense in Bear Country)
Jimmy (Wimp Man)

I live between Chicago and Gary. The bangers fight Pit Bulls in Gary and Chicago. The bangers break into the Gary animal shelter to steal dogs to use as training fodder for the Pits. They like Boxers because they are docile and have a profile similar to a Pit. Otherwise they use a wounded Pit with it's mouth taped shut so they can't hurt the dog being "trained". Episodes of Pit Bull attacks on humans and dogs here are not unusual. I hate the breed and their owners. There's 10,000 other breeds of dogs they could own, if they indeed wanted a pet, and weren't morons. Don't fool yourself into thinking a .38 or 9mm single (or multiple) shot will kill one of those Pit Bull dogs that's determined to hurt you. If I was attacked by a Pit Bull my first shot would go into the owner. Came close to that when I took my little dogs to the Vet last week.

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SOS USA

My son was jumped by a big coydog at night in his back yard. All that saved him was a Benchmade lockblade knife that he could open one-handed, via the thumb stud.

The dog received a long slash from the chest south as it reared up, trying to get my son by the throat. It was probably mortally wounded, but escaped. Thankfully, my son did not contract rabies, despite having declined to get shots. He now carries a gun when out, especially after dark.

In the main I do not like dogs. They're usually either craven or vicious. They're always unpredictable. And they often control their owners more than the reverse.

It amazes me that many people think that a gun is "too dangerous to have around." But they keep a (bleeping) dog!

Once upon a time I took my little pointer named Molley for a walk to the local post office. We walked past one house, which was located approx. 10 feet from the road, and started to turn the corner by a pecan tree. A large bulldog jumped off the porch through the open cab of the owners pickup truck and attacked Molly on her head and neck. I was wearing a pair of Ft. Lewis jump boots trying to get them broke in. I proceeded to kick that dog just behind the left leg trying my best to crush his ribs and anything else remotely adjacent. To say it got his attention is putting it mildly. I only had to pop him once. He yipped loudly and took off. The owner ran over shouting, "Don't hurt my dog!" I told him I wasn't going to let his dog cut my puppy up and that if it happened again I'd stomp the dog. I then took Molly and walked up to the mayors office and told him exactly what had happened and ask for the police to take the matter up. That afternoon I walked back down to that house to apologize for being so harsh and hurting the dog. I was surprised to see that the house had been vacated. Other than a few odds and ends, they had literally packed up and moved in approx. 5 hours. I was amazed.

The above was the second time I had to deal with a problem dog. The first time I was out running. I always carry a couple of weights while jogging/running. Some sort of large mixed breed type dog jumped me. He never barked. He just came right at me. I punched him in the side of the head with one of my weights. That calmed him down. About that time the owner pulled up, leaned out her car window and said, "Don't hurt Buffy!" It was O.K. Buffy wasn't interested in any more experiences with me. From that point on, every time I ran down that road, Buffy stayed well up in the yard and behaved herself. Cool.

Interestingly... in both instances the owners said virtually the same thing... i.e., "don't hurt my dog/Buffy." If they didn't want their dogs hurt, I would have thought they'd restrain/control their dogs. Then it wouldn't be necessary to given them the boot... or the hand weight as the case may be.

Lately I've been doing my jogging/running after supper as the heat is not so extreme. I've about decided to start putting some sort of small handgun in the pocket of my shorts while I am out. This is in a way a good thing. My wife loves me and will understand that I need to buy a quality handgun for such uses. It offers real possibilities if I work this right. :-)

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<><

The stick is bigger/heavier than it looks. Hickory from the yard. Almost 2" across at the thick end.

Late this last summer I was roading one of my Brits before the season started. Early morning--I had not gone far up my road when a large pit came over a fence (rental house, changing cast of characters) and made a beeline for my dog. No growling, ears back, laser focused on my dog. Yelling and waving around the arms usually stops them, but this one kept coming.

I had my dog in a leather roading harness. I choked down on the lead and began to swing him around off the ground counter clockwise to keep him away from the pit. I gave the pit three hard shots with the heavy end of the stick across the shoulders to NO effect. I realized I was being too nice about the whole thing and rared back and hit it right between the eyes. I swung like I was trying to split a pine knot.

It backed up about six inches and came right back. Clocked it again and it went back about a foot but came again. Another SOLID crack between the eyes and it backed up about 3-4 feet and circled. I switched hands with the stick to access my 642 and a guy came running up--it wasn't his dog; he and a couple of friends and three little girls were beginning his daughter's birthday celebration with an outdoor breakfast, next door to the house the dog came from.

He grabbed the dog's collar despite me telling him not to--I figured it was going to bite him. He led it away and I got my dog out of there.

As the neighbor was leading it off, I saw the dog's owner coming out his door--he started my way until he saw the revolver then turned around and went back inside.

When I got thru roading I had to pass back by. The guys and the little girls were still out there and came and talked to me. The dog bit the guy pretty good when it recovered its senses as he was putting it back in the gate. He said he was calling the Sheriff. Turns out he never did.

I apologized to the little girl for her having to see me beat that dog on her birthday. She said, "That's OK! That dog tried to eat my puppy!"

Later that day I stopped by to talk to the owner. I'm pretty sure he was pretending he didn't know how to speak english. I did not see the dog again.

DO NOT underestimate what that kind of dog can do and the punishment it can take!!!

[QUOTE=Texas Star;136505668

In the main I do not like dogs. They're usually either craven or vicious. They're always unpredictable. And they often control their owners more than the reverse.

It amazes me that many people think that a gun is "too dangerous to have around." But they keep a (bleeping) dog! [/QUOTE]

I trust my (bleeping) dogs instincts and bet a million bucks they wouldn't like you either. I'd also bet neither would bite you without cause. Both are well socialized and trained. Have you ever been around a well trained and adjusted dog? Is there anything in the middle of "craven or vicious"?

Get past the (bleeping) dog and meet the (bleeping) owner.

As a main I don't like anyone who my (bleeping) dogs don't like.

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Dum vivo cano