Single action exemptions for Smith revos in Cali

Status
Not open for further replies.

sipowicz

Member
Joined
Aug 9, 2005
Messages
10,250
Reaction score
18,977
Location
Gun lovin\' Hollywood Ca.
I did some research and learned that most off roster autos can be legal here if they are converted to single shot fixed mag guns...supposedly, it's pretty easy to convert them and to convert back (and no law saying you can't put it back)...since single action revolvers that hold more than 5 rounds with a barrel of more than 3" are exempt, you can apparantly also make the gun single action by removing the double action sear (or whatever that piece is called) and revert it back to double again after buying it...you just need to find a gunshop that will do it..interesting...
 
Register to hide this ad
Hey, anything to piss of the KaliforniaStan legislature!!!!!!!:rolleyes:

Not so much -

This kind of stuff is pretty low profile and is California compliant. If the state wants to play their silly games, there's usually ways around that.

The single shot conversion is just one of the methods. As is the "bullet button" on assault rifles, magazine "rebuild" kits and other such things.

As in the military, there is always someone smarter.

Bruce
 
So, you don't think that the ATF is not watching what's going on? They will still know who has these guns since there is a paper trail.
I have yet to find an FFL to perform this sort of transfer as they know the same thing....it's skirting the law and could be frowned upon by the law lords.
Don't get me wrong, I would love to be able to buy guns like the rest of the world, but I'm not going to take a chance.
 
I'm sure they are watching...and that's okay as I don't need any of roster guns...but apparently, there are shops in Ca. doing it since it is perfectly legal to sell it in the new config and no law stating it can't go back...lots of info on it on one of the California gun owners sites...
 
I highly doubt that ATF is watching or even mildly concerned. ATF enforces Federal laws, not state laws. However, I had the same idea of converting double action revolvers to single action as a way of getting around the California law. I got the idea from a man I worked with who inherited a Colt Officers Model Match that had originally been made as a single action. So if an off-list double action revolver less than 50 years old is bad, and a single action revolver based on an off-list double action revolver less than 50 years old is good, then why not?

Some of California's firearms laws are a waste of law enforcement's time and taxpayers' money. They create victimless crimes where no law enforcement problem existed. With budget problems, police officers being laid-off, increased gang activity, and the gangs now saying that with fewer cops, they are going to own San Jose, I can only think of these lines from High Noon:

Bartender in Ramirez Saloon: There'll be a hot time in the old town tonight. Hey, Ben.

Ben Miller: I wouldn't be surprised.
 
Hi folks...

I was the guy that originally designed these Roster exemption strategies over at the Calguns community - who then pushed it to the hilt. (Several months ago I acquired a non-Rostered Glock 23 Gen4 just for giggles.)

[I'm hoping to find some old 1006 barrels that can be extended, btw.]

I was, I believe, also the first person to import (with helpful aggressive FFL assistance) a S&W 14-3 factory single-action revolver as a 'trailblazer' revolver.

[The Calguns Foundation (in conjunction w/SAF) is litigating the Roster in Federal Court. It's inching along, but I will note that plaintiff selection is fun: CA Roster bans acquisition of THE specific revolver the US Supreme Court says Dick Heller can indeed have (Heller v DC). The Roster also banned a one-armed man from acquiring a left-handed Glock [even though the DOJ attorney notes he could buy the right-handed one, send it to Glock or a gunsmith for modification and receive it back again.]

The BATF has NOTHING to do with these matters, at least at the detail level. If nobody's arrested/charged with a CA violation, they will not drive anything except their own Fed issues. BATF (and even some local DAs) have been burned by CA DOJ incompetence before. ATF even stays away from assault weapon stuff generally, because they get better information from CA FFLs than from DOJ (who also tries to obfuscate on the issue - that's a separate piece of CGF/SAF litigation).

The 12133PC single-shot exemption was originally designed to allow T/C Contenders, XP100s, etc to be sold in the state. It was 2006 enactment of 2005 legislation. Such exempt single-shot guns had to have barrels 6" or longer and were 10.5" or more in overall length (measured parallel to bore) when assembled.

These pistols were regarded as politically harmless ("hunters"), low-volume guns. Neither statute nor regulation define 'single shot' and so we duplicated topology of recognized single shots and can have expert witnesses testify to history/correctness of such topology.

We first used it to get non-Rostered AR & AK pistols (that were also not configured as CA-defined assault weapons due to use of 'BulletButton' maglocks) into CA - since 'pistol frames' cannot generally be acquired in CA due to the handgun Roster.

The first AK pistols that were voluntarily registered caused a storm at CA DOJ - and a lead DOJ agent contacted the first individual and made noises about illegal SBRs and other nonsense (it was base from a homemade flat) - to a dude who just happened to be a lawyer very, very knowledgable about CA gun laws. Once the lawyer asked for more information in written form, the agent said he could no longer talk to the lawyer and all communications had to go thru the DOJ Public Inquiry Unit - which meant full retreat and "le deluge" began.

The single-shot exemption means, bottom line, the gun's topology must have only one space to store rounds - the chamber. A zero-round training or filler mag - or a 10rd mag blocked to zero rounds - is locked down with a screw replacing mag catch. The lack of constructive possession for this arena [i.e, the gun must be regarded as it stands, without concern for any prospective reconfigurations] plus the wording in 12133PC subtracting such exempt guns completely out of the 12125 et seq Unsafe Handgun suite means it's good to go.

Remember that in CA it's also legal to - after taking possession of a handgun - to modify it to any other legal form (non-AW, non-SBR, etc.) So it's perfectly legal to change functionality back to original by removing such modifications after leaving the gun shop. So you do not have to keep the gun in mangled form (a BulletButton mag catch may need to be retained to avoid AW status on pistols where the magwell ahead of the pistol grip).

AR/AK pistols have long enough barrels & overall lengths that dimensional compliance for lengths is not an issue. For other pistols, a longer barrel must be used to get the lengths up to be exempt. CA FFLs doing this work have a library of long barrels they drop in, along with locking down a filler magazine. These barrels are either ones extended with a welded-on pipe checked for concentricity and straightness (and checked for safety!! the 'new' gun MUST work SAFELY and rationally and repeatedly). For 1911s there are cheap extended barrels available - I think it's somewhere around 7+" required; many people take the 16" 1911 bbls from Sarco and cut them down. [Do NOT use a full 16" bbl for this conversion to avoid crossing into non-handgun territory and consequent vagueness of status - keep it shorter than 16".] The barrel is, after purchase complete and walking out of store then returned to FFL for credit.

A CA FFL07 is not required for 'drop in' parts additions or exchanges - i.e., when no welding, drilling, grinding, etc. on the original gun.

The 12133PC single-action revolver exemption (5+ rounds, 3+" min barrel length, 7.5" min overall length parallel to bore) does NOT just apply to 'cowboy style' revolvers (a la Colt SAA and clones). It is irrelevant whether or not the cylinder tilts out for loading vs spins on a base pin and is fed thru a loading gate. It is irrelevant whether the hammer cock (Colt & clones) or the trigger pull (S&W 14-3 single action) rotates the cylinder. All that matters is that the revolver operation requires two separate decoupled user actions - a hammer cocking action and a trigger pull action - to fire.

Removing the DA sear accomplishes this. (I've been told that similar operations can be performed on Colt Pythons, King Cobras and others.) The DA sear is reinstalled after pickup. [Of course, this means competence is required to not mar screwheads, sideplate edges or internals - either on removal or reinstallation. Hollow ground screwdrivers and a rubber-head peen hammer (and rag) are vital to retaining appearance and finish.

Remember that:
- there is no more general 'single-action' exemption. Otherwise 1911s and Browning HiPowers would be Roster exempt already!
- do not try to use the single-shot pistol exemption on a revolver. Besides no net benefits, the revolver might still be regarded as retaining its revolver status unless a slab single-shot cylinder replacement - a la Ruger Hawkeye pistol - were to be fabricated.

I was excoriated by a non-CA mod here a year ago or so since I was 'evading' the law. He's wrong. There's no 'evasion', there's mere compliance with existing CA law that cannot 'over project' in these specific circumstances.

If the legislature wanted more restrictive interpretations they could have written the law more tightly. If DOJ had wanted to try to put a stop to this, they could have tried to create regulatory definitions 'clarifying' the terms 'single shot pistol' and 'single action revolver'. Neither of these things happened (nor can they now, without dealing with massive 'underground regulation' legal problems.)

I will also mention I'm a founding Calguns Foundation board member and can promise expert gun lawyer representation & support, providing all the rules are followed above. (More detailed writeups on procedures are on Calguns.Net). CA DOJ agents grudgingly acknowledge legality by harrumphing while they audit gunshops doing "Roster exempt" conversion transfers. We have them on videotape. If this were not legal, these FFLs would lose their state ticket and be charged with misdemeanors.


Bill Wiese
San Jose CA
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Status
Not open for further replies.

Latest posts

Back
Top