I just received an email about the Doolittle raid on Tokyo. It was interesting reading until I got the paragraph below, then it got real interesting!
One of the pilots was to be issued a gun, a .45, I am assuming a 1911 since he says "pistol" but it may well have been a S&W or Colt 1917. I have one from a WWII Navy Vet who was issued it in WWII, a 1917 Colt revolver. Anyhow he tells about putting together one from a bunch of parts

As we steamed further west, tension was rising as we drew nearer and nearer to Japan. Someone thought of arming us with some old 45 pistols that they had on board. I went through that box of 191 pistols. They were in such bad condition that I took several of them apart, using the good parts from several useless guns until I built a serviceable weapon. Several of the other pilots did the same. Admiring my "new" pistol, I held it up and thought about my old Model-T.

That really tells it like it was!

Very cool! Can you imagine? The Greatest Generation. Sure hope those genes are in my veins and my children's veins.

Out
West

You specifically mentioned the Doolittle Raid. Capt. Ted Lawson, who was one of those pilots, addressed the issue of sidearms in his classic book, "Thirty Seconds Over Tokyo".

He had an issued .45 auto and his wife's Colt .32 auto. He said that many of the crews had whatever handguns and knives they wanted. If the guy you mention had to wait until he was at sea before he had a gun, that was probably the exception. Most USAAF officers would have been issued sidearms well before the mission. Those guys had been in service for a year or more before that raid!

I'm not saying that the man who wrote that statement posted above was lying, just that most of the men already had guns they brought with them, and that comes from one of the pilots on the raid.

The enlisted men also had pistols, and one drew his and asked if he should shoot some Orientals approaching his crew after they crash-landed in China. (He didn't fire, and they turned out to be friendly Chinese.)

However, it is true that armorers often mismatched pistols, and I personally took apart several .45 autos at a USAF base in Newfoundland in the 1960's, and assembled an all Colt gun. Got one with the older wide spur hammer, too.

BTW, I was the only one in my unit who knew how to use the .45, the others just being trained on .38 revolvers. (I was the only gun nut. That knowledge was acquired in my early teens.) Of course, i showed the others, but this does prove that "outside" gun knowledge is useful, even in the military.

My father fought in the Okinawa campaign during WW2, and said that at times as he was behind the front lines he would go to the armourers tent and swap out rusty or worn parts on his .45, as if he didn't care about the collectability of the piece at all!

Oh No!!! My Heart!!

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I always take precautions

Yup, I have a friend who was a Marine in Vietnam. By that time the last military 1911s (built in 1945) had at least 20 years of service. He said that the armorers would disassemble guns, throw old parts in a bucket and pick out new parts from a different bucket until they got it to work.

I did the same thing with AK's in Iraq.
When I was a USAF Security Policeman I'd swap out the right grip on my Model 15 every few months when it got dinged up. Never worried about the serial number in the grip. I suspect many civilian police guns got the same treatment.

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John

It was pretty common in the military for a bunch of guys to get together to clean weapons and put the parts in one pot with solvent to clean everything. We kept the original bolt with the rifle but everything else was mixed up. I don't think at the time anyone was concerned with the problem of collectors down the road trying to straighten out the mixed parts.

In the military during the 50s after qualifications we in the armory would detail strip the M1911s and all the parts would go together in same part pile (hammers together, slides together, etc). After checking and cleaning/maintance the weapons would be assembled from the part piles. this was also true with M1 Garands and Carbines. When I read of someone who has an original issued M1911, Garand, or Carbine I have doubts. Similar to an un-used, un-fired Smith and Wesson. Some just have better care than others.

Rather a good testimony to how well the interchangeable parts worked, despite the way it became a bane to later collectors.

I have two GI 1911s. One is a 1913 Colt frame - saw action in both World Wars and is now 99 years old - with a circa 42 or 43 Remington-Rand slide. Fully functional, just needed some of the rust wiped off from storage in a drawer for many years. Someone's dad took it home from WW2 and the family put 1000s of rounds through it since. I ended up with it.

The other is a mid war Colt slide on a mid war Remington Rand frame. The combination was rearsenaled in 1946 after the war apparently. Looks pretty much like new.

Anyway, you should see some of the issue M9s that the guards have. Once I paused and wondered why a guard had a dull nickel finished pistol. Then I realized that the finish was simply completely worn off all surfaces.

I had a re-built Colt 1911 with a 1911A1 slide that had been nickeled for use by the MPs assigned to Seventh Army headquarters in Stuttgart at the end of WWII. Most of the "collectors" I encountered refused to believe it was GI issued or that the nickel finish had been done by the Army, as "they NEVER nickeled their guns."

One of the contract provisions for the M1911A1 pistols was a requirement that every part in every pistol be fully interchangeable with every other pistol, regardless of manufacturer (Colt, Remington Rand, Ithaca, Union Switch & Signal, Singer).

While on casual status between jump school and pathfinder school at Fort Benning, Georgia, in 1969 I was detailed to the post armory. We disassembled, cleaned, and reassembled many hundreds of various weapons used for range training by multiple units including pistols, rifles, and machineguns. The M1911A1's were detail-stripped, then all the barrels went into one box, all the slides into another box, all the frames into another box, all the firing pins/springs/retainers into another box, grips in another box, etc. After cleaning all the parts(boiling water and soap, followed by solvents and brushes, etc) the pistols were reassembled with random parts, as each were pulled from the various boxes. No thought was given to keeping original parts together, and not a lot of attention was given to overall condition on the pistols. This cycle was repeated constantly, as weapons went out to ranges for OCS, IOBC, and other Infantry School uses, then returned to the armory for cleaning and service (some with "trouble" tags attached for special attention by the post armorers). Seriously worn or damaged pieces were packed up for shipment to an Army Depot for the next level of maintenance or destruction.

Rifles and machineguns were gauged for throat erosion, muzzle erosion, and other symptoms of excessive wear. Out-of-spec parts were replaced with new parts. As I recall, only the M14's required attention to keeping the correct bolt with each rifle (to assure proper headspace). There were still racks filled with 03/A4 sniper rifles, M1 Garands, M2 Carbines, M3 SMG's, and M1 Thompson SMG's, .38 revolvers (Colt and S&W), 1897 and Model 12 Winchester "trench guns", although none of those were in general issue at the time.

In addition to all the various pistol manufacturers we worked on weapons made by Rock-Ola (jukebox manufacturer), General Motors Hydramatic Division (transmission manufacturer), TRW (satellites), High Standard, GM Guide Lamp, Rock Island Arsenal, General Electric, and other interesting sources.

A couple of years later I spent a few months with an Army Marksmanship Training Unit where I learned a lot about what makes the 1911's work best, shoot most consistently, etc. We had Service Pistol and Match Pistol categories, and some of the best pistolsmiths in the world at that time. Parts selection, based on manufacturing tolerances and gauged dimensions, was everything in the Service Pistol category, as no modifications were permitted. Barrels, barrel bushings, triggers, sears, safeties, all matched as closely as possible to the frames and slides (also carefully matched up). Cases and cases of new replacement parts from every source imaginable (Colt, S&W, H&R, Savage, Springfield Armory, and others, most dated 1940's but some as late as the 1960's).

Match-grade parts were stamped "NM" (barrels, frames, slides, bushings). Match pistols were produced on new Colt frames in the MTU shop, and pistols were constantly coming back through for examination and rebuilds.

I remember going to a pistol match while I was coming off the flu. When I turned in my score card to the NCOIC he looked at the card, stared at me and demanded to know what I had to say for myself. I told him I felt so bad I wanted to go out back and shoot myself. He told me to take two rounds.

Lots of old memories.

Interchangebility of parts on our small arms was a hallmark of the American war machine and it worked pretty good. German rifles had matching serial numbered parts hand fitted to each rifle. But we won the war and created havoc for latter day collectors.

I have a US Government Property 1911. I remember my father telling the story of when he was in the army (43-46) they took the 1911's, took them all apart, threw out the bad stuff, and then made "new" 1911's with the remaining parts. Think that is when he got this one.

That's why I laugh every time someone says they have a 1911 with all matching parts.

In '66 while in MP school me and this other guy screwed up. To do pentence, we had to spend all weekend cleaning all of the pistols in the school.

We had an assembly line where we took all the guns apart and put the parts in piles, frame in one pilce, slide in another, barrel in its pile, etc.

We went down the line cleaning all the parts, then went down the line again assembling the pistols, If any of the parts happen to be put in the same frame, it was a pure accident.

Fast forward several years. I was in the AK NG, running the AK Marksmanship Unit. The combat teams were made up of units, BN or Seperate Company. I ordered and received enough to issue 4 per BN and Seperate Company so they could practice. I kept 10 out for the winning team to send to the Wilson Matches (they had to use USGI as issued weapons). Before I issued the guns I had the guys on my State Pistol team go throught the guns switching parts until I had 10 pistols that shot fairly well.

This is just one person and two incidents. I'm sure there were a bunch of others in the life time of the 1911/1911a1.

There is that well known picture of an Ordnance man in the South Pacific in WWII seated at his work table surrounded by stacks of M-1 Garands with the caption:
"This is why you rarely find an M-1 in 'all original' condition".
Since US practice has been to number only the receiver and to have repair and rebuild programs after each conflict the only US firearms to survive in original configuration were either safe queens or ones that "disappeared".

As a quick side note, I had the fortunate opportunity about 4 years ago to listen and talk to a Doolittle raider pilot.

My only regret is that I didn't record the audio; but I believe the organization he spoke to did. In fact, i'm going to look into it again and request a copy, if available.

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Rather be outdoors

My father made it up the beach on D-day and as they pushed into France the men he was with would give away a new tight 1911 for one that "rattled" because they worked better in cold weather. He held on to one the was pieced together with Remington, Colt and Union Switch parts. He also said in the Ardennes more than a few German soldiers lost their life to frozen weapons because of tight tolerances. He said" those damn Germans just couldn't let go of that precision engineering thing". He kept one of those frozen weapons. I think my brother got it when my dad passed on.