European Revolvers

357-RevolverGuy · #1 03-08-2013, 12:55 AM

I've been looking into adding something different and unique to my revolver collection. I own and know a lot about American firearms but know very little about the one's made overseas. I started reading a little about some of the European revolvers that were manufactured before and after WWII. It seems like many were clones of Smith & Wesson or Colt designs, but some look like they were well made.

Does anyone recommend any specific manufacturers? I'm curious to own maybe something made from Italy or Spain but not sure where to start or if I should stay away from specific models.

Kinman · #2 03-08-2013, 02:36 AM

The British Webley is a terrific revolver, they are usually chambered in .455 Webley. I have some Canadian friends that carried the .455 Webley and depending on the type of ammunition you could get your hands on there were certain types that were more powerful than the .45ACP. I have never owned one but have fired a friends and I think its an excellent shooter, mild recoil and quite accurate. They are not attractive revolvers and are quite bulky, which probably has had alot to do with their popularity.

Arik · #3 03-08-2013, 09:28 AM

Russian (there is also s Belgian in a different cal.) Nagant revolver.

Definitely not a Colt/S&W copy. 7.62x38 cal. Bullet enclosed in the case. Original load is about equal to a 32-20. Upon trigger pull cylinder moves forward an creates a seal with the barrel. Only revolver you can actually silence.

right now they run about $150 and surplus ammo is about $350/1200 or so.

If you want Italian there is a Bodeo. Made from the late 1800 to about the beginning of WW2. It has no trigger guard but is equipped with a folding trigger. Good luck finding ammo 10.35mm

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diamonback68 · #4 03-08-2013, 09:41 AM

The Manurhin MR73 .357 was probably the best European revolver ever made. Expensive, but on a par with the best of Smith&Wesson. It's like their holy grail gun.
As for Italy or Spain, I don't think they ever made anything up to the standards we have with American guns.

Thuer · #5 03-08-2013, 09:53 AM

There are more good quality European revolvers out there.
For example Korth, Manurhin, Saur und sohn and many more.
But if you like old and antique revolvers there is a lot of choice.
Here are a couple from my collection. This is a picture i made for a presentation a couple of moths ago. The most are Belgian made.
The quality is from well made to poor.
The two on the top are a copy of the Webley RIC and a Dutch officer revolver. Then a crude made Gasser revolver and a Bayard revolver (smith copy). The one with the folding trigger is a Ancion Marx. The one with the triggerguard hook is a well made Belgian made and in Amsterdam assembled one and the last one is the poorest quality but has a nice safetyfeature.

Arik · #6 03-08-2013, 09:53 AM

Yea but thats a modern design. 70's i think.

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Thuer · #7 03-08-2013, 09:54 AM

Here are some more.

Not only European. This picture is from the same presentation I made.

Thuer · #8 03-08-2013, 09:59 AM

Ore some modern Italian made Mateba revolvers? The Unica 6 and the MTR 8

jimmyj · #9 03-08-2013, 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thuer

There are more good quality European revolvers out there.
For example Korth, Manurhin, Saur und sohn and many more.
But if you like old and antique revolvers there is a lot of choice.
Here are a couple from my collection. This is a picture i made for a presentation a couple of moths ago. The most are Belgian made.
The quality is from well made to poor.
The two on the top are a copy of the Webley RIC and a Dutch officer revolver. Then a crude made Gasser revolver and a Bayard revolver (smith copy). The one with the folding trigger is a Ancion Marx. The one with the triggerguard hook is a well made Belgian made and in Amsterdam assembled one and the last one is the poorest quality but has a nice safetyfeature.

Hi:
Is the small revolver on the bottom (folding trigger) a "Baby Hammerless"?

Stevie · #10 03-08-2013, 10:15 AM

Astra and Llama both made some fair/good quality modern revolvers.

Then you got Korth and Manhurin..premium revolvers.

Then you have the military service revolvers from the mid 1800's on through the 1940's...Nagants of several calibers and styles...Swiss revolvers..Italians..British Webley..Tranter..Montegrin...Austrian revolvers...German...literaly dozens and dozens of military issue type revolvers to be had.....plus huge varietys of civilian European made revolvers

You could stack-up revolvers until the floor fell out of your house!

diamonback68 · #11 03-08-2013, 10:20 AM

Dang, how did I forget to mention Korth?

Thuer · #12 03-08-2013, 11:56 AM

Hi Jimmyj
That is the Ancion Marx. Calibre .320
It is a well made Begian revolver with a pushbutton safety.

I am planning to write an artickle on Belgian made revolvers. It will cost some time and research. Around 1900 there where a lot of Belgian gunmakers who produced revolvers. A lot of them where home made.
It is a very intresting subject.

357-RevolverGuy · #13 03-08-2013, 12:08 PM

Thuer that is quite an impressive collection. Some very interesting pieces you have there.

I came across this odd revolver with 18 shot cylinder and 3 firing pins. Apparently made in Spain. I'm not even sure if this is real. See link below:
Crudmudgeonz Tumblr ? Three barrels, three firing pins, 18 chambers

OLDSTER · #14 03-08-2013, 12:34 PM

Korth ( German) and Manurhin( French). Do ya have a lot of equity in your home

?? Just kidding. I've handled ( not owned) both. Both like a Rolex watch. Google them; fun stuff to see.

Thuer · #15 03-08-2013, 12:46 PM

.357 revolverguy. Yes that revolver exist.

Never seen it in real.

What do you think of this.

It is a handmade copy of the HDH revoler in 6.35 this one is in 5 something velodog.

Two barrels and two firingpins.

357-RevolverGuy · #16 03-08-2013, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thuer

What do you think of this.

It is a handmade copy of the HDH revoler in 6.35 this one is in 5 something velodog.

Two barrels and two firingpins.

Seeing that makes me realize what innovative times they must have been living in. That revolver reminds me of the design and engineering you would see on a steam locomotive from the period. I wish manufacturers today would take more risks in creating new firearms.

Where do you normally go about purchasing guns like that? I’ve been checking some of the auction sites and there’s nothing there. Are they incredibly rare?

Thuer · #17 03-08-2013, 05:24 PM

The original HDH is very rare and expensive. I took this picture at a gunshow at Kassel Germany. I did not buy that revolver.

I do find and buy my revolvers on several locations like gunshows, auctions, other collectors and gundealers.
I do work sevral day's a year for a gundealer and sometimes something good comes in.

41RF · #18 03-08-2013, 05:50 PM

The Model 1892 French Ordnance revolver is nice, 8mm ammo from Fiocchi is available from time to time. Swiss Model 1882 is very finely made, also the Swedish 1887 Nagant, which uses the same 7.5mm round. Fiocchi has 7.5 also, both use it. A bit newer, I recommend the Astra Cadix revolver from Spain; very well made and accurate in .22 which I have. The action is a copy of a Smith except they left off the hammer block. The rebound slide is substantial and fitted well though. Belgian, anything by Francotte is quality stuff. Austria, the Rast & Gasser model 1898 8mm holds eight shots and was made for smokeless. I used to shoot 32 H&R in mine, it worked fine and was not as hot as the Fiocchi offering. The Webley Marks V and VI are the strongest; the steel was improved over the earlier marks. Ones with the cylinder cut down for 45ACP can work fine, but 45ACP is hotter than .455 Webley, enough so that it beats them up after a while. Mild loads recommended. Have fun, they are very historical guns!

therevjay · #19 03-08-2013, 08:20 PM

It's not European, but the type 26 Japanese military revolver I think is a brilliant design. Very few moving parts stone simple to disassemble and clean/service with no tools.(well maybe a screwdriver) Understandable by anyone, no matter how mechanicly untalented. Why they ever switched to the semi-auto Nambu I don't understand.

357-RevolverGuy · #20 03-09-2013, 12:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by therevjay

It's not European, but the type 26 Japanese military revolver I think is a brilliant design.

Very nice therevjay. I also find it interesting that such an early revolver was using 9mm. Everyone has been providing such great information. This has me wanting to read up on my history again. Thank you guys!

Cyrano · #21 03-09-2013, 12:17 AM

I sure like my Frnch Mles 1873 in 11mm and 1892 in 8mm. Craftsmanship is great and the quality of the steel is excellent. The Mle 1873, while made for black powder is regularly shot with mild smokless by French shooters. There's an Officer's Model, the Mle 1874; shorter barrel and blued insteal of being left in the white. The workmanship would be hard to find today.

Hank Jr · #22 03-02-2014, 04:34 PM

Just found this link and thought if you were still had an interest this would be helpful on some of the Belgian Revolvers ...I recently sold a Belgian Copy of the 1880 Frontier breaktop in 45LC...I am glad that when I get an older (or modern) Gun I religiously check the marks..This one hade English Proof Marks all over it. Seems that British Manufacturing of small arms were not at full speed during WW I. Belgium being a neutral country produce several of the S&W Frontier Model of 1880 copies and sold them to England, thus having a British Proof...The other Belgium Gun I just obtain and by all appearence and mechanics seems to be in good working as well as looking appearence..It was a Copy they say of the model 1887 Lightning with Square butt in 38 spl. Marked on the barrel "Texas Ranger" as a model. Good Solid Gun and on the barrel 38 spl ctg but shoots 38 LC very well..although it has no safety features and you have to carry it between rounds; unlike the earlier mention Smith Copy which did releave the hammer from the cylinder...picture of both attached...They state that the value of these are not consistant with how they are made...I think they are wrong and as time goes they will show and increase in value...Also Have some of the Spanish Government Style Star Super and Super B, which are good shooters and again checking proofs and serial number dates helps find some good stuff
The link listed also tells a little history and story on the Colt Copy..

Hanquets Gun Dynasty

Cyrano · #23 03-03-2014, 11:56 PM

Here's a few:
French Mle 1873. 11mm. Issued 'in the white'. The 'white' didn't last long as hey were shot with black powder, cleaned with water and carried in acid-tanned leather holsters.

French Mle 1874, the officer's model, blued, fluted cylinder and shorter barrel.

2/3 copy of the Mle 1874, in 320 revolver. 30-06 round for sizecomparison.

French Mle 1892, 8mm caliber. Stayed in service until the 1930s.

Lefaucheux pin fire, 11mm (I think.)

Cyrano · #24 03-04-2014, 12:05 AM

Some more:
Velominthe Excelsior by Martin Bascarin. Caliber 8mm Mle 92, closed and open for ejection.

German M 79 Reichsrevolver. Cal 11mm.

New Mauser 'Hunter' in 38 Special. Actually made in the Czech Republic.

Mauser zig zag solid frame in 9mm, DWM number 6. Break top zig zags are rare and expensive. Solid frames more so as only about 70 were made. This is the only solid frame 9mm I know of.

Cyrano · #25 03-04-2014, 12:10 AM

Finally:

Cased Bentley percussion revolver. IIRC it's a 54 bore (too lazy to go look).

Clement Baby in 22 short, My Grandfather got it from a friend who had been a customs agent at Ellis Island.

THE PILGRIM · #26 03-04-2014, 12:20 AM

Sorry, never could warm up to the European revolvers. Have always considered that to be the auto zone. When it comes to the worlds best revolvers, you are already there.

Thuer · #27 03-04-2014, 05:18 AM

Cyrano. Here is my copy of the French model 1874. Could it be of the same maker?

mac2 · #28 03-04-2014, 05:24 AM

A Webley Fosbery if you have a lot of money and can find one...

Thuer · #29 03-04-2014, 06:37 AM

Yes I agree. I am happy with it and have no money at all now.

Thuer · #30 03-04-2014, 06:47 AM

This is a Belgian made Levaux revolver. The lock is the same as an avarage pinfire revolver.

A Dutch Officer revolver in 9.4 mm model 1873.

A Belgian D.D. Oury pocket revolver in .32acp.

From the same inventor the Le Nove Le Page marked in .25

Internal vieuw of the French model 1892.

Thuer · #31 03-04-2014, 06:54 AM

A very ugly copy af a Gasser revolver Belgian made.

The Swiss model 1882 in 7 mm Swiss.

Vieuw internal parts model 1882. You see the Abadie safety in working. It press the sear out of the way. The cilinder cycles but the hammer does not work. In this manner you can unload the revolver very fast.

Anxion Marx pocket revolver hammerles with a push button safety.

Marshwheeling · #32 03-04-2014, 08:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thuer

Vieuw internal parts model 1882. You see the Abadie safety in working. It press the sear out of the way. The cilinder cycles but the hammer does not work. In this manner you can unload the revolver very fast.

The essential prelude to retreat.

BearBio · #33 03-04-2014, 03:31 PM

I have a velo-dog. Tiny little 25 rimfire, with a purse holster. Good condition (bluing, case hardening) for about $300. Conversation starter.

V1 Rotate · #34 03-04-2014, 05:11 PM

I've never seen a poster own a thread so completely as Thuer has owned this one. Thanks for the pictures of what is obviously a museum quality collection! Very eye opening to us Americans.
Regards, Bill S

walkin jack · #35 03-04-2014, 05:34 PM

I was very impressed with the revolvers that Brendon Fraiser carried in The Mummy. It was the Camelot Delvinge Model 1873. IIRC they are French made. He carried two of them in a double shoulder holster rig. Very cool looking guns.

walkin jack · #36 03-04-2014, 05:40 PM

Here's a pic of the Camelot Delvinge.

Pilgrim · #37 03-04-2014, 08:53 PM

probably the easiest to find Euro guns, if you count Russia as European. They are technically on the same continent.

the Webley Mk6..modified for .45acp.

the 1895 Nagant

Walter Rego · #38 03-05-2014, 01:18 AM

Here's some Swedish steel

Horseless Trooper · #39 03-05-2014, 09:11 PM

I know this is heresy but the French 1873 revolver is years ahead of the Colt Peacemaker. Double action, Never break springs, Great combat sights and take-down tool built into the cylinder pin, and feels great in my hand anyway. If the French had bothered to give it a little more horsepower it would have been my first choice for a 19th century combat revolver.

Cyrano · #40 03-06-2014, 12:45 AM

Horseless Trooper: you got it right. the Mle 73 is double action, and about as sturdy as you can get. No broken springs (like the SAA). Only problem is the anemic 44 caliber round. If they'd lenghtened the cylinder and round 1/4 inch and filled the space with black powder, they'd have a wonderful revolver. The German Modell 1897 (six years later) is about as obsolete as you can get, (single action; didn't even have an ejector; they issued a wooden rod to the troopers for ejection) but the round is a lot more powerful than the French.