OK, I painted my self into a corner here. Regular gun safes arent safes per say, just residential storage containers. These are supposed to have a five minute burglar rating. The tin box ones are even rated lower.

So I have come across some Mosler surplus government safes, these are GSA class six. These are used for storing top secret papers and maps, yes they are M&P safes

These safes are not burglar rated. I see they are well made have many bolts holding the door shut. They are rated

20 man-hours against surreptitious entry
No forced entry test requirement
20 man-hours against manipulation of the lock
20 man-hours against radiological attack
30 man-minutes against covert entry (added to containers produced after March 1991)



The government uses class 5 safes for firearms. I think these have a 10 minute burglar rating/forced entry.

I havent seen these or had my hands on them. Are they good enough for home gun safes?

Gotta be better than a tin box but are they better than say a Cannon gun safe? These could be installed in a location that would make it very difficult to pry the door.

Anyone have experience with these.

Heres rating explained

Physical Security Handbook 440-2-H Chapter 7

To me the change of a professional burglar is way down on the list. I am more concerned about a neighborhood punk looking for drugs or a quick score he can turn into drugs. The second worry is fire. The class six containers you mention are uninsulated and would provide almost no protection for fire. My Cannon 42 gun safe costs $1000 at TSC and has a half hour rating for fire.

I had one burglary at my home and most of the guns were in a locked room (man cave) in the basement. I had a cheap exterior lock on the door and in this case it did the trick.

__________________
Luke 22:36

Adding to the fine post above, I expect them to be heavy as well. I picked up a floor safe, WWII vintage, concrete line, it took 7 men and two dollies to move this thing. It weighs as much as a small car.Like above, the local punk snatch and grab is more of a concern than a professional. Locks don't keep thieves out they just help keep mostly honest people honest. Every thing I have is fire proof to a point, but fire isn't much of a concern considering current locations. Carrying off isn't in the cards either, not at all. I also have an unlined bench 5/16ths thick steel that came out of a railway express car. Run of the mill thief isn't going to take it anywhere either.

My Amsec is BF rated and has a 90min fire rating. And the fire station is less than a few miles down the street. Not to mention there is a fire hydrant outside my house.

I think im covered from burglar and fire, lol.

But then again, a good thief could always show up with the right equipment and be into my safe in just over the 5hr mark. I just hope he brings a lunch and his own case of beer. I dont want him drinking all my beer and eating my food while he's trying to get into my gun safe. =-)

PS: Just remember to always bolt your safes down no matter what it weighs. Without going into detail, i'll say that IF i can manage to move ur safe. There is a chance that I can talk the door into opening right up for me. Just food for thought.

I'm along the same lines at Smitty357. I have an Amsec Teton series fire/gun safe with a 30 minute rating; fire station less than a mile down the hill; hydrant on the front yard; the safe is in a corner of the house near 2 exterior walls -- not in the middle. Bolted through the floor into the foundation. It isn't going anywhere and nobody is going to tip it over.

But, all that is worthless if a forest fire comes through here. The safe and its contents would be destroyed. Our recent wildfire in Black Forest left many melted safes and fire boxes as the fire and heat raged for hours -- not minutes. Some areas were well over 1200 degrees and sustained for several hours. Reports of safes, fire boxes and the like being totally destroyed, as well as their contents, are making the news.

I'm looking at underground alternatives.

Bob, that is pretty much where I am at now. Surrounded by concrete on four sides. I doubt a forest fire would bother much of anything, but then that is not a problem here.