on the History Channel I was watching "Tom Horn - Frontier Hitman". I remember a thread here on the lounge about Tom Horn but I sure didn't have any luck finding it. I was wondering about the comments made in the thread and comparing it to the tv show. it seems to me that in today's way of doing things his conviction would have been overturned. they seemed to pulled the switch pretty quick back in those days to cover up some questionable dealings.

I have a friend who is a HUGE Old West buff. YES! Horn was railroaded BIG TIME.

Having lived in Wyoming for several years, I asked about it and got varied responses. Most felt he had been railroaded but some stuck to the story of his being a murderer. Who knows?

Tom was becoming an embarassment to the cattle barons and politicians in Wyoming and had to be removed. He was, but he wasn't hanged.

I grew up with family and hired hands who knew Tom. I remember one of the hands who served on Tom's jury. He was put there to tip the jury but it didn't work.

Tom gave the bridle he braided awaiting the hanging to my Uncle.. It's still in the family.

A neighbor claimed til the day he died that Tom died of old age in the Sandwich (Hawaiian) Islands.. He was paid to feed and train a fast horse and tie him up behind the court house on the day Tom was to be hanged. Horse was gone after things were over. I heard this guy tell that story over and over as a kid.

He claimed they hanged a hobo picked up in the railroad yards. Nobody ever saw Tom's face when he was hanged. He had a hood over his head the entire time.

Tom was spooky son of a gun and probably guilty of a lot of things, but he din't kill Willie. Again, family members lived near the Nickell place and knew who killed Willie.

A piece of the rope that he was hung with. if it was him, is in the Youth home my BIL works at in Torrington. It has very fine fibers and looks by my eyes to be machine made.

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Front sight and squeeze

My favorite Iggy story yet. Thanks for sharing!

Was the movie accurate? It is one of my favorites. The story has always interested me.

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Cheers, Charles
SWCA #2442

Horne thought the kid was the father, and shot him. So he murdered for hire, but got the wrong person.

Think Hatfield and McCoy kind of a fued between neighbors.

I have the book "A cowboy detective" by Charles Siringo. In it he tells a un flattering story about horn. They both were pinkerton detectives.
When the movie came out my ex, my daughter and I went to a drivein to see it. I had a 72 ford PU with a shell camper. The truck rear window was out and I had a open leather deal fixed where she could squeeze through it. She was in the back playing. The very moment that the trap dropped and tom horn hung, I heard a screeching and thud. Somehow crystal had opened the back door and fell out of the back of our truck!
Just a funny coincidence, but roughly the same time era we had a old timey picture of us taken in virginnia city. Some western history buff friend of mine seen the picture and commented that I looked a little like the same picture that iggy posted of horn. Good excuse to show it I guess. What cha think? Thats about 31 years ago.

Good lookin' family there.. The old timers spoke of Tom's "rattlesnake eyes" You ain't got them.

Whoever it was they hung, he's buried up the street.

I studied this man for a few years and believe he did kill Willie. The trial was poorly conducted and like many, I believe he would not be convicted today. However Willie wasn't his first killing. He was reputed to have ambushed quite a few settlers for his employers. If true, he should be held in greater contempt than Ted Bundy, as Ted at least faced his victims, not hid behind rocks and shot them when they weren't expecting. Just my opinion.

Tom probably killed plenty of people and he "enhanced" his reputation at every opportunity. His reputation did more to scare out homesteaders and squatters than his gun.

Don't get me wrong, he probably needed hangin' but not for that one.

Whenever I see Iggy's name, I always read what he posts and the entire thread. He always has something very interesting to say. I know that you said you weren't writing any books but I have to say that you would have a best seller on your hands I think. I am never disappointed in your posts and this thread was no exception.

What impressed me with horn was at a early age he learned the apache language and was a scout with al seiber. He translated for geronimo at his surrender and at least helped talk him in.

Prior to 1904, prisoners in Wyo were executed at the county seats. That's why Horn was hanged in Cheyenne (or not - as Iggy notes above, that's still a matter of considerable debate in these parts). Anyway, there were a number of hangings in Laramie back in the day. Two were legal, several others were "circumstantial." In August 1889 a murder occurred just outside of Laramie. It took a while to solve the crime but a defendant was finally arrested in mid-October. He was appointed an attorney and trial took place in the first week of November. It ground on for four days - that was a long one back then. The defendant was convicted and sentenced to hang. The case was appealed and his conviction affirmed in January 1890. He was executed in February 1890. Four months from arrest to execution including trial and appeal! Who says things were slower in those days?

Horn's appeal took about a year and the Supreme Court's decision was about 100 pages long. It's quite a read! If anything, his case took WAY longer than most did back then

Interesting thread.

As much as I like Steve McQueen in anything I thought he was the wrong
"cast" for "Tom Horn".

It they'd of blackened his hair and gave him a mustache...maybe.

Iggy, you've had an interesting life.

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Have guns...will shoot'em.

An interesting anecdote about Horn is that his "confession" was made to lawman Joe LeFors, who was quasi-fictionalized as the straw hat-wearing posse leader in "Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid".

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I'm with the banned ...

Great posts..
Was it true, that they used that water scale with a time trigger of some sort at the hanging.
Also, when Horn tried to escape and took a pistol out of the safe in the sheriff's office, he didn't know how to operate it? Think it was a model 1900 FN in 32 ACP???

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Jess Christensen

I am going to go with Iggy's account. Tom Horn was always a bit of a hero to me, based mostly on his earlier service in Arizona. I spent some time in the Browns Hole area of NW Colorado. There is a cabin on some property now owned by the Colorado Division of Wildlife that belonged to a Black cowboy/nester/sheepman named Ison Dart. His grave is near the cabin and the story in that part of the country is that he was one of Tom Horn's victims. The Browns Hole area was reputed to be occupied by folks who acquired their cattle at the "Moon Light Cattle Auction" in Wyoming who weren't real concerned about who's brand was on them. Since Tom Horn was in the business of rectifying the situation, he is not a real popular historical figure in NW Colorado.

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Keep Shootin' and check 6

Here is a pretty good rendition of the Tom Horn Hanging tale.
Tom Horn III--Wyoming Tales and Trails
Included is a picture and roster of the jury. Frank Sinon was the "hired hand" I knew. I dated the grand daughter of another of the jurists. My family now owns a pretty good chunk of the old Swan outfit.

Geez, this is makin' me feel old.

Here is a link to more of the Tom Horn saga. Interesting reading.
http://www.wyomingtalesandtrails.com/horn.html

I always like your posts, this one is pretty interesting I have been reading all I can about Tom Horn for years I think the first book I found was Last of the Bad men then his book and several others. I also watched the History channel program. There was another a few years ago on the discovery channel.

I like the Steve McQueen movie and the David Carradine mini series too. I remember reading he used a model 94 after I saw the movie I guess that was to mundane for Hollywood.

It seems he started out with good intentions but liked to drink, A few years ago in Wild West magazine they had an article and along with a forensic profile of him stating that he was a psychopath he showed no fear even at his own execution.

I drove through Wyoming in the early 90's and wish I would have spent more time there.

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Stan

My boss on the Highway Patrol was a cow hand on the last roundup of the Swan Livestock outfit when he was a kid. This roundup encompassed 5 counties in Wyoming and some in the panhandle of Nebraska. The final gather took place in the Goshen Hole in SE Wyoming.

He told me of Tom coming into the cow camps late in the evening and grabbing some chow and coffee.

He never spoke to anybody while there and left when he was done.
This furthered the fear and suspicions about him and let everyone know he was lurking around the roundup to discourage any "long looping"
My boss said that Tom was one "scary ********." That's exactly what Tom wanted them to think.

That's really interesting. I saw the movie with Steve McQueen and still wonder what really happened back then...

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Jorge

I understood that the pistol was a Luger and the grip safety foiled him, but that may not be accurate.

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Oh well, what the hell.

Dang. Riding the rods was extra hazardous in those days.

I heard it was a .30 caliber Luger, which he had no clue how to operate.

I also enjoy your posts, but looking at that avatar I have to say, being from the South, I honestly don't believe I could live in a place wih no trees.

I am, however, whacking down the trees that obscure our view of the valley here in the mountains.

Tom Horn was widely known on the frontier during the latter 19th Century. Mountain man, working cowboy, and served as an Army scout during the Apache wars in Arizona and New Mexico, including arranging the final peace settlement (after which the few remaining Apaches were taken to a reservation under horrible conditions).

Horn also served for some time as a Pinkerton Detective Agency operative in Colorado, Wyoming, Utah and probably other locations.

Hired by an association of large cattle ranchers, supposedly as a "stock detective". In reality, the big ranchers were engaged in trying to force out smaller operators and homesteaders. Was known to carry one of the new Winchester smokeless powder rifles, considered to be a very flat-shooting rifle (probably .30 WCF or .30-30 caliber) back in the day.

Trial was pretty fast and loose on the rules. Horn's "confession" was obtained by a well known detective who befriended Horn, got him good and drunk, and encouraged him to brag about his activities, while two men sat in the room next door and transcribed what was said. No doubt that any "evidence" obtained would never be allowed in a courtroom today.

I think I read somewhere that Horn once said "Killing is my business, and business is good".

Hired by an association of large cattle ranchers, supposedly as a "stock detective". In reality, the big ranchers were engaged in trying to force out smaller operators and homesteaders.

Yup, and some of us din't move easy.They're gone we are still here.

Scary thing is that after I left the ranch and moved to town that association wanted to hire me as a "range detective" to help stop present day rustling.. They have had more than one ex Highway Patrolman working for them that turned out about as spooky as Horn.. I din't want to further the tradition.

RARE ENGRAVED PRESENTATION TO TOM HORN REMINGTON MODEL 1890 SINGLE ACTION REVOLVER.

there are way to many great stories told on this forum to not be in some books or even movies and tv. you guys that have these stories need to sit down and either write up what you remember or talk into a tape recorder. even if you don't want it for yourself, how about the next generation and on? this stuff is history with varying points of view.

Thanks for the links Iggy! Good reading. I enjoyed reading about Tom Horn and The Wild Bunch. It was really interesting!

perrazi

Don't think ol Tom or Butch and Sundance can compete with the Kard***ions.


don5
The Wilcox Train Robbery where the wild bunch blew up the express car took place on our ranch at Rock River. Dave Keith, WYO, and I have been pasture poodle shooting near there.

Here is a google earth picture of butch cassidys boyhood homestead just south of circleville utah off highway 89 on the sevier river. It is still there.

Panoramio - Photo of old homestead (Butch Cassidy's childhood home)

Iggy, I found the train car robberies pretty interesting. I felt sorry for the poor guy inside. They blew up the first car after he refused to unlock the door. When they robbed a different train a year later, the same guy was inside! He opened the door this time when asked. I don't blame him and I bet he was thinking about getting a different job. I know if I was dynamited, that company would have a hard time convincing me to stay!

Speakin' of train robbers.

Gunsights

Bill gave me the Colt's Thunderer that he kept under the cash register at his Motel for years and years.

Thank you Iggy for another good story!

I'm not by any stretch of the imagination an authority on Tom Horn or the goings on during Horn's time in Wyo.

I have traveled through that country with Iggy a few times and we talked about those happening back in those days.

Knowing how the large and small outfits operated ain't all that much different from today.
Grass and water are the cattleman's life's blood, be they large or small.

Even with businesses today, calculate a percentages of loss, so it was then and as now, with regards to the cattle business.
One can only stand to lose just so much, before action has to be considered.
Sometimes now, as then, that action comes at the end of a gun barrel.

Having been a stockman myself, and having dealt with rustlers...I haven't dry gulch'd any by the way, but with delivery of stern warning, with a rifle in hand, that sort of doings would not be tolerated by any-means.

I now have found, that cattle thieves are operating by newer methods, i.e. bad checks at sale barns,
forged instruments of transfers and the like, or just loading up stock after the sales with insider assistance at said barns or ranches.

There was a time, not too awful long ago, when an un-branded horse(s) were easy pickings, as the slaughter plant were no more that a days haul from most locations.

So, I guess in Horn's time he was just a handy tool to be used by those in power over the range...Until his service was no longer needed and he became a liability.

I also believe as others, that Horn lived out his last days somewheres far from the Wyoming territory.


.

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"IN GOD WE TRUST"

If so then the bum they hung got a bum deal. The same is said about butch cassidy. I have read a number of reports of him being seen long after he was supposedly killed in south america. When we first moved here in 2005 a elderly woman set down with me on the bench at walmart. She said she was from circleville. Thats about 55 miles from me and where butch cassidy was raised. I mentioned something about cassidy. Turned out his youngest sister was a friend of hers and was her hair dresser. Things like that seem to put the old west closer to us. It was claimed butch was a guard at a mine out of goldfield nevada long after he was killed. I wonder what happened to etta pace. No one has any rumors on her. One thing sure, they all should be dead by old age now.

Well if Tom Horn did survive, I guess I am glad. You always hear these kind of stories and wonder if there is any truth.

In the early days cattlemen would just own the areas on the range that had water. These were the only places considered worth owning. Later small outfits laid claim to the range land the big outfits controlled but did not own. The cattle were a nuisance. The farmers (sodbusters) felt if the cattle eat their crops they could eat the cattle. The ranchers took objection to this. The sodbusters also fenced the land they claimed for their homestead and the big ranchers objected to this at first. By custom, if you owned the water rights you controlled the range in between. The law changed this when they allowed the sodbusters to file homestead claims. I suppose Tom Horn could tell himself that he was killing stock thieves when there was either no local law or the local law sided with the sodbusters. OTOH, the sodbusters were legally entitled to own the land (custom or no custom) and entitled to reparations for damage by a neighbor's stock animals. I am sure at some point Horn became a real liability to the big ranch owners.

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Luke 22:36

When the homestead law was enacted, the big boys began taking out strategically located homesteads in the names of their cowhands without their knowledge and then would fire the hand.

When the unknowing and absent cowhand/owner failed to "prove up" on the land, the big boys would buy up the claim in a foreclosure auction on the court house steps and gain ownership of the land.

In cattle country, if you controlled the springs and cricks, you controlled the land for miles around.

One of my homesteader ancestors wound up in a court battle over water rights in the Supreme Court with the then Gov/US Senator/land baron, and won.

He controlled most of a couple of counties by his phony homesteader claims to water sources and thus the surrounding lands. He and his "holdings" are gone now.

About the only modern day remnant of his empire is an old Army Post converted to an Air Force Base and renamed in his honor back in the late 1940's

Fascinating stuff all! Thanks for a great thread.