Are armed citizens now classified as militias?

Sheriff threatens citizens with deadly force by his deputies.

I find this very bazaar....And disturbing to say the least, another example of them vs us?

I'm afraid Joe might be a little to close to the edge on his latest show of bravado.


Tough-talking Arizona Sheriff Joe Arapio warns armed militias in desert to beware or be shot | Fox News


You be the Judge.........

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"IN GOD WE TRUST"

Deadly force, needs to be met with deadly force in my book. Just the way it is.

I reckon maybe if someone has been under seige by the US Dept of Justice as long as ol Joe, they might become a little bit beligerent. It might spill over into his regular duties a mite oncet in a while.

I read the MSN report--At the present time I am on his side. People do not need to be in the desert at night with aks & ar15s when the sheriff is on patrol. Protect your property--don't go looking for trouble --it will find you. It also shows his people are not trigger happy & brave.

The MSM is not Joe Arapio's friend and they will twist any story around to make him look bad if they can. JMHO, but I feel like there is plenty of evidence to support it.

That said, I agree with what was said above. Armed hooliganism is not constructive and sure doesn't help the causes of either an armed citizen or the Sheriff. It sounds like he is making a legitimate point - rather bluntly, but accurately. He is known for that.

What kind if idiot wanders around in the desert armed and pointing weapons at innocent people? While Sheriff Joe is a grandstander for sure and says some silly things what should be said is for those pointing weapons at people without just cause there is a good chance that an innocent armed civilian is going to fire back thinking their lives are in danger. Let LEO (including border patrol) do their job and you yahoos wandering around in the desert need to go home and worry about protecting your own home. Sheesh.

The problem is that the various policing agencies and the border patrol are NOT DOING THEIR JOBS!

So this makes for a serous and unusual situation. I like the idea that citizens are willing to protect this land from the invading hoards of illegal aliens that flood across our borders by the tens of millions, most with impunity. Those that do get caught are often treated like an endangered fish and released back into this county on their on recognizance. What a laugh that is.

I think sheriff Joe and those minute men have to be very careful about pointing guns a people. I think this one case is a little strange since most sheriffs and their deputies wear uniforms, making it difficult to mistake them for an illegal alien.

Also if policing authorities identify themselves as they are required to do so by law it would go a long way to preventing such encounters. Both sides need to realize they may well encounter each other in such areas and caution on both sides is called for. Sheriff Joe should be glad for any help he can get in this area as well.

Finally if someone is going to take it upon themselves to guard our mostly unguarded borders, they have to be very careful and they must realize they are taking some serious risks to do this national service.

^^^
This x1000. What's worse is every time the government looks like doing something about it all the hand-wringers and do-gooders start creating and/or it is too close to election time to see it through.

A quick Google search shows there is still about five days left in the current Border Patrol hiring announcement. Apply. Go show them how it's done. But your post reveals you have no clue as to how things truly operate.

If militias want to patrol the desert they need to coordinate their efforts with law enforcement. They have to understand they have no legal standing and the use of firearms should be limited to self defense.

I am on the side of Sheriff Joe on this.

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Luke 22:36

A while back when I first saw the 'Border Watchers' on TV they explained they only watched for illegals and notified authorities. They were wearing sidearms.
Does anybody know exactly where these guys are located? If they are East of Nogales I will stop by and say howdy, in the daytime!

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NRA LIFE MEMBER

Like they say, "It's a mighty thin pancake that doesn't have two sides."

You have to take a look at this from Sheriff Joe's perspective. Just look at what he's had to deal with in the past with the Minutemen.

First, if I remember correctly, he arrested one of the co-founders about seven or eight years ago for three counts of child molestation.

Then, there was a release of a video where it shows night-vision footage of two Minutemen chasing down a supposed illegal immigrant. The audio has a lot of profanity as the Minutemen open fire on the illegal, eventually killing him...or at least that's what it looked like. When the situation was investigated, it was found that the video was a complete fake. During the questioning of the two Minutemen, they admitted that they were just "two old guys that were bored," so they thought they'd make this video and release it to the public.

There's a bunch of other stuff that shows how unprofessional some of these bozos are, so, personally, I'm going to have to side with Sheriff Joe on this one. He's had to deal with too much unprofessional garbage with some of these Minutemen. I don't blame him for getting a little peeved.

I believe the original intent of the Minuteman Project was basically good, but an overabundance of "wannabes" got involved because they liked the idea of walking around with a loaded firearm, just hoping they get to shoot somebody, and ruined the whole purpose of the Minutemen.

Just my two cents...and it's probably not even worth that.

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Pack light and cinch tight.

Between the Minutemen, Federal and State LEOs, and drug smugglers, all armed with semi-automatic weapons, it's only a matter of time before a number of people are killed in a fire-fight.

Based on that very short story, it sounds like Joe is saying be careful about who you point your gun at, my guys are out there too.

So true and the guy with the badge has the right to legally shoot back.

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Dick

Exactly...........I don't feel anyone should read more into the situation or what was said than that..........The good guys are out there too, so don't go around pointing your gun at them or you could get shot.


Don

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Laus Deo! <><

Yes, coordination with local law enforcement, so long as these "militia" types not only follow the law(s) to the letter, but know full well that they can only use deadly force from a defensive posture, and that they do not have the benefit of sovereign immunity since they are not "professional" LEO's. That said, the local sheriff's department should be made aware by the militia(s) of their presence and location at all times.

Insofar as Joe's "mental" state....well, if I had the better part of my career being monitored by the DOJ and a boatload of civil rights groups for as long as he has, I too would be belligerent.

I see no problem with the militia serving as eyes and ears for LE. I also see no issue with their being armed. But, like so many things, once an individual of that group exceeds that role, it becomes a problem. It sounds a lot like the same mindset that got us the Florida Stand Your Ground debacle. Once your ego exceeds your level of authority, the foot to the butt can't be far behind.

That said, threatening to shoot people is out there, he needs to rethink his approach. There's an attorney in AZ just waiting for one of his Deputies to overreact so they can use his statement against him. I'd think hard about shooting anyone stupid enough to point a gun at me too, but not hold a press conference to publicize it.

Actually, the only SYG debacle was the one created by the media.

I don't believe SYG was ever considered as a possible defense for (he who shall not be named;-)) except, again, when the media started referencing it.

I do take your point about individuals who exceed their role as observers and reporters to Law Enforcement.

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Georgia On My Mind

I was only using that term to label the incident. I was thinking of the individual involved more than anything, but using his name seems to result in instant thread jacking and other craziness, I'll leave it at, "he who shall not be named."

"Court records say Richard Malley believed he had the right to aim the rifle at the deputy because he thought a crime was occurring. Malley was arrested for aggravated assault."

Negative Sir, it's that thinking problem of yours showing up again.

Any time you "patrol" a dessert area at night some incidents are going to happen. A novice non lawman, military or guard is going to be excitable and keyed up to start with. As mentioned elsewhere I was a defense plant guard forever. We had sites in remote desert that I sometimes got assigned to, to guard certain things. Not often but when you do that type work things are going to happen. Once I was in the middle of nowhere and I hear a pack of dogs comeing at me about 03:00 am. A hot, dark desert night, you think no one should be within 10 miles of you. A guy on a wheeled sled pulled by a dog team comes up. He`s practicing for the idelrod!
Excitable tin foil hats need not apply. They WILL see stuff. I suspect Joe deals with some of the type.

I can see Russia from my back porch.

I don't think the Sheriff was "threatening" anyone. I think he was simply pointing out that his deputies are not going to take that kind of thing lightly and that they have every right to - and will - defend themselves. That's all.

The MSM will do what they can to make it sound otherwise.

My guess is the Sheriff would like to avoid that problem if he can, and that is why he is talking about it. But... he is saying everyone has to understand the safety of his deputies doing their sworn duty will come first.

My read, but I admit I am biased. From what I know about him, I wish we had about a thousand more sheriffs like him.

Since I am a little biased in this myself, I'll defer to M29.... Said it better than I could. I'd like to point out a clear violation of Firearm Safety Rule 2 (never point a gun at anything you don't want to destroy). Especially if the target is capable of doing the same back at you..... Someone was really lucky he pointed his rifle at a very highly trained professional, and not someone "trained" to a similar level.

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Tom
"Panem et Circenses"

Got thinking about my last post about the dog sled. Maybe I was fooled and it was a russian spy with a elaborite cover? He`s probley still laughing about it and telling his grandkids how he fooled a idiot night watchman!

Although I definitely agree more needs to be done on border patrol of illegals I'm not sure a bunch of untrained Rambos are the answer. I tend to think Joe is trying to protect his deputies while they try to do their job. Given the choice of having him watch my back or msnbc I'll hang with Joe.

From what I understand about Sheriff Joe, I'm a little surprised he didn't offer to train and deputize the guys down there. I think though that any idiot who aims a firearm at an LEO is just asking to get shot. Probably well deserved, too.

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Even older, even crankier....

Sheriff Joe is 81 years old.

He has contributed a lot to common sense law enforcement, and taken a lot of flack for it.

But there comes a time when a man needs to retire and pass the job on to someone younger.

As for the guy who pointed his rifle at the deputy, he should be happy he is still alive -- and not shot dead by the deputy or his partner.

Since there seem to be a lot of people who want to do this minute man thing, I think Arizona should set up some kind of police reserve program where unpaid volunteers are vetted, have background checks, and then can watch for illegals while coordinating with regular law enforcement.

Sheriff joe does have a program like that and they receive full training and he actively uses them. The city police departments have it as well. The problem with the militia here in Arizona is they think they are above the law and can do whatever they want which is why they don't participate in these programs. They are not looking to make things better they are waiting "for the system to crash" so they can be ready to take over. They are hoarders and peepers and have questionable sanity. Sheriff Joe is still more than capable of doing the job. "Let someone younger do the job" , have you taken a look at the younger generation and what they want to bring to the table? I will stick with Sheriff Joe watching my backyard thank you!

A Trooper in Oregon stopped a drunk driver, while arresting her the husband brought out a rifle. When he pointed it at the Trooper the husband lost his life. Point a gunat a person who carries one for a living and you just might meet your maker soon there after!

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Retired Marine Gunny

I don't see this as one issue. I think that's an oversimplification. Of course the drive by media is trying to make him look bad, nothing new there either.

The issues are:

1. The pointing of a gun at the Deputy. That's a no brainer.
2. The militia's patrolling the border.
3. The Sheriff's 30 bullet statement.

Everyone wants to jump on the gun pointing issue, I don't think the debate is over that, at least not for me or anyone other than bleeding hearts. No one questions pointing a gun at an officer is stupid or wrong.

I generally support Sheriff Joe, but he made a dumb statement this time. If he had said "the safety of my officers is primary, as is their right to defend themselves; pointing a gun at them under any circumstances is going to be met with a sudden and immediate response," or something along those lines, it would have been fine. Anyone who's been in LE administration for a while can tell you that it's how you say it and to think before before opening your mouth for the cameras.

If you go out into indian country, one ought to know what one is doin. Knowing the difference between a sheriffs deputy and a smuggler or a coyote should be basic. Problem is, there are plainclothes and undercover working the border.
It's a sticky situation on the border. I guess Sheriff Joe is trying to keep over enthusiastic amatuers settled down.

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Halfway and one more step

AZ is a strange place. I lived there in the 60's 10 miles from the border. When I lived there it was pretty mild but still a place where having a weapon near by wasn't a bad idea. Drugs were coming across even then. My dad knew most of the BP there and was a combat vet (WWII), he knew the score. He kept a rifle in his truck and a short barreled shotgun in the house. Having lived in TX and AZ I can understand the mind set, although I think it's a bit radical. You don't point a weapon at a LEO and not have a problem. Any fool knows that. That sun down there must have baked his brains.

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That's just somebody talkin.

Back in the 60's, I was at Ft Huachuca for language training. I was doing my level best to stall having to go to Vietnam for as long as possible. I had volunteered for jungle training at Ft Polk right after flight school, then language school. The Army finally got wind of my angle, and pulled me out of language school after only 10 days...Tet happened, and I was on my way. The only thing I know about this isolated part of AZ is that I was told if I looked real hard, I could see Mexico; all I saw was a booth with a tape recorder and ear muffs, and ugly azz barracks....that's all I know about Arizona.

I didn't give this story too much thought, mostly just old Joe attention whoring again. Then I had a thought. Google a map of Maricopa County. Note where it is.
It is not on the Mexican border. So the volunteer wannabes who drew down on this deputy are pretty much full of bull. If you want to go hiking around the desert with a rifle, awesome. Don't claim your 'patrolling' when you really just want to play Rambo without getting too far away from the big city luxuries.

And yes, I realize (more than most here) that smugglers don't just stop 100 feet past the border. Some of them hike for days carrying their load. But I don't think the most effective way to fight this is for volunteers to be wandering around interior counties trying to detain people.

The little militia dude is lucky this ended with him in a condition to go to jail, and not the hospital.

I think he is "over the edge" in some ways, but vigilante wannabes are asking for trouble in a situation like that. "Watchers" who make reports of illegal activity, okay. We have a neighborhood watch where I live, and I've irritated a number of drug dealers by reporting them and their license numbers when they're conducting business in my apartment complex. Wearing sidearms, sure. But patrolling an alleged high-crime area at night while armed with rifles, with no legal standing or authority to do so, smacks of the vigilante to me. Mall ninjas plus. And that stuff isn't legal.

Everybody like that I've ever known was hoping for trouble. Some found it. One may still be doing time for second-degree murder.

The sheriff was right to warn them, but he's given to being "colorful" and blustering.

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Oh well, what the hell.

Well,
I guess what Sheriff Arapio lacks in tact, he more than makes up for in grit...


I too, have worked at nite in the weeds and don't like being surprised neither.

This going's on.....On the Border, is prickly business.


.

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"IN GOD WE TRUST"

Down in south Texas everythings either horny or thorny.

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Halfway and one more step

I've been in the swamp when things were going on. Bad things. We were under a dope drop early AM getting ready to hunt and had to keep low until we thought it was safe. That damn plane went over three times. Must have been a lot of bails. '78 BTW

Thank god we weren't seen.

Screwing around in the dark can get you dead in a hurry.

I could only imagine DEA coming in and thinking we were spotters.

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Dum vivo cano

Sheriff Joe is talking to his troops. He's saying "I am 100% behind you". That's the message.

Out
West

Sheriff Joe has always been gun-friendly and is one of those stalwart sheriffs who have publicly stated they will not enforce any new restrictive federal gun laws. He just doesn't like anyone pointing guns at his deputies for any reason. I can understand that. Point a gun at any law enforcement officer in Arizona and you might as well kiss your rear end goodbye.

A armed militiaman trying to be an ICE agent and not positioned on the border seems to me to be a bad idea, although I admit that ICE is not being permitted to do its job very effectively. I do understand the frustration.

John

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- Cogito, ergo armatus sum -

Boys the Cartels have setup shop, this side of the border. Yesterday they busted a meth distribution hub in phoenix and the perps have been linked to southern neighbors, that came here to work. What a joke, Fast and Furious was an attempt to disarms us border states. Thankfully a couple of lgs recorded there conversations with the alphabet soup agengcy, or they may have succeeded, nothing like getting caught with your hand in the cookie jar, but it's a phony scandal. Thankfully the brady group gives us a zero here in AZ and I hope it continues.

Sheriff Joe may be old but dumb he ain't. Just remember that he is on our side.

I strongly believe in the right to self defense, but I don't believe that armed groups of vigilantes are a good idea.

First of all, Maricopa County isn't ON the border. The incident happened around mp 140 on I-8 (east of Gila Bend). That area is a frequent "load out" spot for MJ packers. The "militias" that operate in that area, including this clown, have less than benevolent reasons.

I personally know the Deputy. He is a very cool guy. Malley was lucky; there aren't many people that can say the pointed a gun at a MCSO Deputy and didn't get shot at, especially out there.

Looks like the border is recedin' faster than the hair-line of a middle aged urbanite.

Next thing ya know, it'll be the Colorado and Red River, not the Rio we're patrolin...If we ain't careful.

That line in the dirt west of El Paso don't amount to an awful lot of security...


.

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"IN GOD WE TRUST"

Ever been to LA? It's half way up state in California.

There IS no border, it's long gone.

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Sure you did

The only line in the dirt west of El Paso is the New Mexico border. the Rio Grande generally runs NW to SE along the southern part of the city.