Game Wardens

In this and many other states game wardens have the authority to search without a warrant.
I am sure their is a reason that the law allows this but I can't figure out what it is.
Can any of you shed a little light on this for me?
Thanks

Wingmaster

In Texas, game wardens are allowed to go onto public and private property to enforce game laws. They have no more rights than any other LEO. According to the law, they should have probable cause to believe that a violation is taking place or has taken place. It’s up to the game warden in the field to determine whether he has probable cause.

The Texas Court of Criminal Appeals has interpreted the 4th amendment to mean that the provision of the Parks and Wildlife Code allowing entry on private property does not apply to residences.

Wingmaster said:

In this and many other states game wardens have the authority to search without a warrant.
I am sure their is a reason that the law allows this but I can't figure out what it is.
Can any of you shed a little light on this for me?
Thanks

Wingmaster

Click to expand...

Its pretty simple.

Most hunting/outdoor violations are misdemeanors. Less poaching, wanton waste etc. Judges require a LOT of evidence to issue a bench warrant for anything. So unless its a LARGE charge, a search warrant is probably not going to happen.

Now lets say steve and bill go night hunting drop 2 bucks, throw em in the flat bed , take em home, gut them, skin them and mount their heads.

That right there is a BIG CRIME. However the officer has to go off the first crime that is committed, which is night hunting. or firing from a vehicle per say. Now that is in most states a misdemeanor to do. However night hunting can be linked to poaching, wanton waste, wasteful use etc which are felonies :-D.

However a suspicion of night hunting is not enough to get a warrant. Thus game wardens can search, without a warrant in some places, allowed by the state in order to gather enough photographic or visual evidence to get a warrant to SEIZE hard evidence to charge someone. Seeing as carcass, bullet casings, and animal waste are easy to get rid of.

Also they are allowed to enter private property if they believe a hunting blind is facing in a dangerous or populated area, or if they believe on your private property you have a bait stand where it is illegal to have one.

However this does not extend to what the average joe believes it does. Game wardens cannot enter your home, search inside your vehicle or go through your sock drawer without a warrant, they can however go through the bed of you truck, walk around your property even if its private, basically if it doesnt have a door and a lock and its touching LAND.....in some states they can access it and observe evidence, then photograph it, send it out and have a warrant in their hand before you can remember your lawyers phone number, Legally.

If states did not allow this poaching would run wild throughout the nation and there would be no deer for you and I to hunt in the fall.

But dont expect to come home from work and find some guys wearing green and pointy hats in your living room going through your photo albums without a warrant haha.

Does anyone else here watch North Woods Law on Animal Planet? Pretty good show about wardens and how they work in Maine.

In Wyoming they can search any motor vehicle or boat without a warrant. Also your camp and pack.
No disrespect intended to any LEO, but their are a lot of things that can be easily destroyed in the time it takes to get a warrant. Flushing small amounts of drugs comes to mind.
I don't understand why a game violation would deserve a warrentless search and the state police are required to get a warrant to search your car if you are suspected of having drugs or even have evidence that could be used in a murder case.
I wonder if their are any high court decisions where these laws have been challenged? It would be interesting to see what their reasoning is.
Also, I don't think you give up your constitutional rights when you buy a hunting license. Cides that, Most poachers dont buy licenses. They are the ones that get searched.

Wingmaster

Texas Star said:

Does anyone else here watch North Woods Law on Animal Planet? Pretty good show about wardens and how they work in Maine.

Click to expand...

Not only do I watch, But my girls brother in law is one of them :-D great group of guys we have up here

I can't comment on anything that has been written here. In NC they go through the same training and certification process as deputy sheriffs/municipal officers. Deputies/PD Officers/Troopers/Wildlife all go through Basic Law Enforcement Training in NC. We all hold basically the same certification. They can enforce ALL criminal, traffic, and Wildlife general statutes......anywhere. I am not sure, but I seriously doubt that they have the authority to do a warrantless search. Probation/Parole however can, but it only applies to probationers/parolees.

4506517 said:

I can't comment on anything that has been written here. In NC they go through the same training and certification process as deputy sheriffs/municipal officers. Deputies/PD Officers/Troopers/Wildlife all go through Basic Law Enforcement Training in NC. We all hold basically the same certification. They can enforce ALL criminal, traffic, and Wildlife general statutes......anywhere. I am not sure, but I seriously doubt that they have the authority to do a warrantless search. Probation/Parole however can, but it only applies to probationers/parolees.

Click to expand...

Its state to state, not all do. I know Maine does, I've had them come to my place and poke around due to someone claiming I shot towards their house, They found my casings in my firing pit out back, which has 10 foot sand burms all around it. They left happily afterwards.

I didn't mind one bit. I had nothing to hide and had done nothing wrong. I love the wildlife here, the scenery, mountains, rivers and trails and they are the only guys protecting them. As far as I'm concerned they could have opened my gun safe and looked at those too. Good guys who's only job is to make sure my grandchildren will enjoy what I do when I have them. Meh..I guess im just laid back haha

I believe that game wardens are not under the Justice dept, but rather the Treasury Dept. So they aren't cops, they are like BATFE and IRS agents, who have a history of warrentless searches.

A game warden almost gave me a heart attack.

While trout fishing in a stream in NH, moving water and alone in a somewhat remote area.

He comes out of nowhere, walks up behind me to check my license and limit.

Never knew he was even there.
I was clean though.

Was up on a pass gathering firewood,strapped on a 22 thinking a little rabbit stew might be good and thinking I need to get a license.A warden drives by... :-0..How do they know?

I heard they have the widest reaching authority of any law enforcement. They can enforce any laws on the books, plus game violations.

Charlie

Years ago when I lived in CO my best friend was a game warden and I spent a lot of time riding around with him during the spring and summer. I can verify that he would spend a lot of time watching fishermen at a local reservoir, sometimes 3/4 of a mile away through a 60x spotting scope to catch them using more than one rod, which was illegal then.
That same spotting scope was used extensively during all the hunting seasons as well. So when you see the game warden's truck coming as you are hiding that extra duck or hen pheasant don't be surprised when he goes straight to your hiding place. You were busted way before he got to you.

Even though a 100 years ago I worked for the wisconsin state conservation dept (flunky) and had worked 35 years as a night watchman checking lunch boxs, search vehicles, briefcases etc I hated doing it and frankly wasnt good at it. Now it is different when you get a job in national defense, you sign your rights away to get the job. I have never seen as right how those laws stood with citizens. There is a price for freedom and when a warden is given "special" rights to come and look in your freezer or whatever without a warrant I think there is something wrong with the system and the ball has been dropped. In 1962 I worked for the fisheries division in wisconsin. If I did see something I was told I could, uh, play game warden. I never arrested anyone. It was a six month deal starting out. If you worked a day longer they had to make you permanent. I got laid off at the end of the six months. They wanted me to come back a couple weeks later as a "seasonal" game warden. I passed it up. No doubt I could have eventually made permanent but I got another job right away. In those days being a warden wasnt considered as "romantic" as people like to admire now. Dad had a close friend that was a warden. Dad kidded (I hope) that they made him warden to keep him from poaching! If I was starting life again I do belive I would have tried to get a flying warden job. I knew one. Years ago when I was flying they had a citaberia the same as mine, only I had to buy my gas to go up and play!

wbraswell said:

I believe that game wardens are not under the Justice dept, but rather the Treasury Dept. So they aren't cops, they are like BATFE and IRS agents, who have a history of warrentless searches.

Click to expand...

Take off your foil hat. Most wildlife officers work for the state, not the federal gov. Those few that work for the US Fish and Wildlife Service are under the Dept of the Interior. Their helicopters aren't black.

crsides said:

I heard they have the widest reaching authority of any law enforcement. They can enforce any laws on the books, plus game violations.

Click to expand...

In the two states where I was an LEO (not a game officer) I had the authority to enforce any law on the books, including game violations. I may not be well acquainted with some of the game laws, so I might call in a G&F officer for advice. Same with DOT laws about commercial truck drivers. But I had, and I would think every LEO has, authority to enforce any law of the state they are certified/sworn in.


Sgt Lumpy

The authority of GW by whatever name they are known is going to vary by state. Until a few years ago, they were limited authority officers here in Washington, but that was amended around 2002 and they are now general authority. Most of what they do, as a realistic matter of resources, is limited to their area of concentrated knowledge, but if they see a DUI or something, they can do what it takes (if they have any sense, make the stop and call a trooper like the rest of us do, since that's WSP's bread and butter).

A lot of the statutes that allow for very broad searches are no longer of any significance because of the broader analysis of the 4th amendment in the last 50 years (and in Washington we have an even broader provision in our state constitution). One that frosts my tush is that trespass law (criminal and civil aspects of it, as I recall) does not apply to them. I question both the wisdom and the constitutionality of that given the trends in (state) Constitutional law analysis, but it remains on the books.

Hunting and fishing laws are regulatory in nature. The 4th Amendment does not apply to regulatory laws. No Warrent needed to check for licence or count fish or game.

About a year or two ago I read a account where the border patrol had game wardens standing by to bless searchs they made as the wardens have more authority to search than the border patrol! I dont recall what state it was.

This subject was brought up on another forum I belong to.

The reason I am interested is,

If you read the Wyoming state statuets it says they have the right to search without warrant any camp, pack, pack string, motor vehicle, Boat, with probable cause.

I couldn't find a definition of probable cause.

A guy I worked with several years age had two game wardens show up at his house and without his consent or a warrant they searched his freezer and found two more phesants than the legal possession limit they gave him a ticket and seized the birds.

I don't know what their probable cause was, but it sounded a little like Nazi Germany to me.

Just saying

Wingmaster

Wingmaster said:

This subject was brought up on another forum I belong to.

The reason I am interested is,

If you read the Wyoming state statuets it says they have the right to search without warrant any camp, pack, pack string, motor vehicle, Boat, with probable cause.

I couldn't find a definition of probable cause.

A guy I worked with several years age had two game wardens show up at his house and without his consent or a warrant they searched his freezer and found two more phesants than the legal possession limit they gave him a ticket and seized the birds.

I don't know what their probable cause was, but it sounded a little like Nazi Germany to me.

Just saying

Wingmaster

Click to expand...

Most wardens spend their time watching hunters, following hunters, sneaking up on hunters....

OR at weigh stations drinking coffee and listening -D.

Odds are your buddy opened his mouth, or someone he was with opened theirs and it fell into the ears of the wardens. Probable cause :-D

They came, they found, they seized hes in hot water.

I've had a warden come up to my boat, ask for my license, and then say "good weight on those 4 bass you caught?"...........I had never seen him before that moment.......but he knew I had caught 4 bass in 5 hours. Figure that lol

Game Wardens..............are well known........as Wildlife Ninjas, you never see them, But they have all kinds of eyes on you at all times lol