Modern side by side doubles

I'm a side by side guy. My first SxS was also a 20 Gauge Browning BSS. It was a little tanky and I couldn't shoot it worth a darn. Lets say I could hit the side of barn with it even if I was inside the barn. It was a fit problem and a barrel regulation issue. I passed it on so no harm, no fowl ;^). It was the first of what is now a safe full of SxS.

For modern side by sides under $2K I would look to Turkish and Spanish makers. The Hugles (CZ or Dehaan) and Dickinsons are decent guns at their price point but they are heavy for any given gauge. The Ugartecheas made in Spain are nice and closer to, let say, the English ideal.

I have a nice little 28 gauge Turkish Huglu imported by DeHaan that cost in the $1000 range used. It is a nice gun but there are so many better options out there if you look at well used and well cared for classics.

Okay here is the big BUT...I would look for something older like a nice Fox Sterlingworth or Parker Trojan and VH. A nice English boxlock 12 gauge from a 2nd or third tear maker can be had below $2000. I just picked up a nice Belgian 12 gauge well within that price range that is much nicer than most current double at 2 or three times the cost. Really, some of the older English, Belgian and German box locks are the best buys in side by side right now but you do need to do your home work and know what your looking at when you buy. There are a lot of junk worn out guns out there.

My Christmas present to me. My Belgian Guild Gun (and a 20 Gauge Fox Sterlingworth).





My rainy day grouse gun the DeHaan 28

A used sterlingworth bought from a reliable source should honor a quick trial to see if it fires. The Foxes are quality guns and would be great to carry today as a hunting gun. Love the double triggers and extractors, not to many gunsmiths understand the single trig. today. The Huglu guns have a good reputation for reliability. That DeHaan 28 is sweet. I have a CZ side lock in 12 ga as my main hunting gun. It's made it 1964 in the Chec republic and is a great gun. Lots of hand fitting is in my CZ. Not sure what quality SXS's are made today. Larry

2152hq said:

I'd still buy a nice the nicest condition Ithaca NID or Fox Sterlingworth for that price,,or a Belgian/Austrian/German made pre-WW2 gun,,but that's just me.
Nothing fancy, extractors and double triggers.
Even the postwar E.German made SxS's are a good value in the plainer grades. Merkel, Simson, Sauer all built in E Germany for export are good buys.

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Good advice but I would include LC Smith. For a cheap gun I think a M311 Stevens beats a CZ or SKB. The best of the best is a M21 Winchester. Larry

I own an SKB Model 200E in 20 gauge, a 1916 A.H. Fox Sterlingworth in 12 gauge, and a CZ in 12 gauge. I think if I had to pick just one, I'd probably go with the SKB. All are excellent guns, but that little SKB seems to fit just right for some reason.

Don't ignore Fox Sterlingworth, Parker VH, L.C. Smith and English Boxlocks.

At least try some of the above. All are available for less than 2K, and all are superior handling guns compared with many of the guns in current production.

The classics are special. If you're thinking about a sxs for 2K you have a wide choice of excellent guns.

Bill those guns are lovely. That 20 ga. Sterlingworth is a prize. No finer American gun than a Fox.

Mr. Bates knows whereof he speaks. He puts a lot of time and miles on the ground every season.

It's an individual thing but I've never picked up a BSS that felt lively, which is the way a SxS field gun should feel. The SKB guns are nice (a 280 was my first SxS), but only available with a single trigger--a good one though. The 100s are sweet and not expensive.

The last few years the Spanish guns have been uneven in quality. There's a lot of turmoil in the labor force over there. I have an older AyA 4/53 that is my go to gun and it's had thousands of rounds thru it in all conditions and it's still tight and pretty and very high quality.

I've also got a 28 ga. DeHaan/Huglu--like Bill it's my rainy day and steep mountain gun.

The Sterlingworths can still be found fairly reasonably--some years back a 16 could be had for short money. That's changing and prices are a lot more than they were a few years ago. But it you find a 20 like Bill's--they didn't make a lot of those.

As far as new guns, the CZ lineup are very serviceable and they have a great warranty. There are a lot of these standing up to very hard use and sailing right along. It'd be a good place to start to see if you like SxS guns.

The best deals are the Belgian/French guild guns.

The most important thing is the old saw "buy the gun, not the story", or in this case maker. There are some new Spanish guns that are made as well as any ever were, some not. And the guild guns come in varying degrees of condition and quality as well. Learn what to look for, or better yet take someone who does. A lot of old American guns got a lot of use and need to be looked over, and barrel wall thickness checked if you can find someone with a gauge.

And always check any SxS for barrel regulation, particularly the sub gauges.

What is manufactured by Huglu and now imported by CZ was brought in previously by Mark DeHaan under his name brand. The only issue with those were "some" had soft firing pins.

That problem was corrected and you can now find those shotguns on the used market fairly inexpensively. I have a 20 gauge that weights just under six pounds and handles like a feather. Mark did the triggers so they are very nice.

You can read up on Huglu here: Shotgunworld.com ? View forum - Huglu Shotguns

Pownal55 we didn't hear what you plan on doing with said side by side. I see you're from Vermont so I hope the King Bonasa umbellus is your game of choice. What ever your intended use that double for, let us know. It does make a difference in what we recommend.

For grouse a nice light, quick handling, opened choked side by side is what your looking for. Take a good long hard look at an AH Fox of one of the lower grades. Another good choice would be an English Webley & Scott 700 12 gauge. They weigh in at an ounce either way of 6 1/2 lbs. A really clean 700 might run a little more but you'll get a shotgun that is 95% of the way to an English best grade.

BTW, Cooter, it only feels like a lot of miles on the ground when I'm hiking my fat butt around my local coverts. Thank God the pups will wait for me to catchup.

I have a very nice old Browning Citori (in like new condition) with less than 100 shells fired. It is Over and Under, but I like it just fine. I cannot imagine I would ever want a nicer one or a more expensive one. This puppy is probably worth a lot more than I paid for it back in the 1980's.

Bill Bates said:

Pownal55 we didn't hear what you plan on doing with said side by side. I see you're from Vermont so I hope the King Bonasa umbellus is your game of choice. What ever your intended use that double for, let us know. It does make a difference in what we recommend.

For grouse a nice light, quick handling, opened choked side by side is what your looking for. Take a good long hard look at an AH Fox of one of the lower grades. Another good choice would be an English Webley & Scott 700 12 gauge. They weigh in at an ounce either way of 6 1/2 lbs. A really clean 700 might run a little more but you'll get a shotgun that is 95% of the way to an English best grade.

BTW, Cooter, it only feels like a lot of miles on the ground when I'm hiking my fat butt around my local coverts. Thank God the pups will wait for me to catchup.

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Well Bill,
Partridge were always my favorite bird followed by woodcock but for some reason they seem to have become scarce here in southern Vermont. My son and I do a pheasant hunt in NY state once a year but every time we go out He grabs the BSS and I use my Citori Gran Lightning 20. I can't blame him for leaving his 870 pump at home but I need another side by side under the circumstances. Loads of good info out of you guys and I guess the guns aren't getting any cheaper while I think about it.

Y'all go ahead and laugh at me but I have a 12ga Stoeger with interchangeable chokes. It shoots where it's pointed on a skeet field and patterns very nicely. It ain't exactly good lookin' but not what I'd call ugly either. Only problem is that with anything but target loads or light field loads it kicks the stuffin" out of me. Magnums? fuggetaboutit!

Stoeger double defense Side by Side 20ga my grandpa suggested it shortly before his passing.

Mossberg Silver Reserve II

JJEH said:

Mossberg Silver Reserve II

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I've been looking at these on the Mossberg website. They look nice and the o/u is even available with ejectors for a bit less than $800.00. Anyone have experience with these?

Winchester 24

Howdy,
Maybe not "Modern" but the old 24 fits me and I shoot it well.
I have let two of them get away from me over the years but I'm getting the itch as we have been shooting shotguns a little more than we used to.
Nice looking guns in this thread!
Thanks
Mike

feralmerril said:

I own this BSS 12 ga but have only tested it out once. I cant claim experience as I bought it NIB probley around 1977. Its a safe queen. I only mention it as I have looked at prices on the net and see there are some fine looking ones for under your $2,000s. No, they arent made today but used/new are out there.

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Ferrel that's a pretty piece of wood on that one. I have one identical to yours but it has the gold (selective) trigger. I've never fired it and when I bought it it looked like it had never been fired as well. Was gonna ope up the chokes to IC/M and use for ducks to replace an older one I had and buldged the barrel on but never got around to it. Plus I remember how much it kicks when compared to the Benelli I shoot now.

The side by sides were a Euro thing with the British also having a go at it.............

They put out some great wood work and metal scrolling that would pop your eyes out.

I never had the money to attain one but did get to shoot a Fox SxS . It is amazing what a well machined and custom fitted shotgun can feel like and do in the shooting department.

I went 25 for 25 at the trap range with a 28 Ga. !!

A SxS is not just a 10Ga sawed of Stage Coach gun............
and yes, I have one of those also........

Side by sides can be even more interesting than pre-war Smiths. Read a lot, find someone that shots them to handle. A 12ga box lock non ejector that has 28" barrels and weighs between 6.5 and 7 lbs. can be a joy to shoot with the right loads. remember buy the gun not the name. Learn the basics of reading proofs. Find out what off face is, minimum barrel wall thickness, correct chamber length and what loads to use. I would be glad to help you if you want to get in touch with me. Mark

Go to a shotgun site and ask this same question. You'll get wildly different answers.

There isn't a new SxS for under $2K, made today, that I'd waste my money on. If you're only going to shoot it a few times a year, a Stoeger might be fine, but if you want a reliable gun that will last, get an 870.

For a SxS your best value is in the used market. The A.H. Fox Sterlingworth can be found for around $1K in good shape.

tops said:

Good advice but I would include LC Smith. For a cheap gun I think a M311 Stevens beats a CZ or SKB. The best of the best is a M21 Winchester. Larry

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First of all, you can't find a M21 for less than $5K and that would be a steal. Secondly, the "best of the best" it ain't.

The 21 Winchester was originally an assembly line mfg shotgun.

It really didn't have much radically different going for it over anything else that was out there at the time in it it's original Field Grade form.
A different way of assembling the breech of the bbls together, a longer action 'nose' for greater leverage than most other SxS's, a few different methods of mfg'rg the frame itself so as to make it easier and cheaper to make. It's a very strong shotgun but it's nothing special inside either in design or workmanship.

It has hammers w/integral firing pins just like a Fox or Parker. Sears the same as both of them. Nothing radical there.

You can add high grade wood and engraving, but the inner workings are still the same.
Some mfg'rs ejector and trigger mechanisms are more solid than others in long term use. There's always a weak point in the mechanism somewhere that shows up with a lot of use and wear no matter what the make. Some repair and rebuild more easily than others.

Some people love the 21,,others don't. Same with any brand.
They are a heavy shotgun especially in the smaller gauges and don't handle as nicely for many as some others.
But put one out for sale at a good price and it's gone. It's got the magic Big Red W name.
You can still find 12ga guns for around $3k in the early extractor double trigger configuration. Not a lot of them but they're still out there. Prices go up quickly after that. Small bores go off the chart.

They are easy to repair due to their relatively new design and assembly line origin. Parts are easily available and easily fitted. That's a plus for sure.
Coil springs through out the mechanism ecept for the long flat sear springs. But again nothing much different from what the other guys were offering.
It takes a few tricks in working on them but there are more than a few gunsmiths around that can take care of them. The single selective trigger can give some problems but they are easier to repair than the older Parker or LC Smith SST's for sure.
The last run of Winchester frames was in the 1950's.
They are of a high nickle content steel and is very tough.
Those made by the CSMCo of N.Britain are of 8620 steel ,, wire EDM & CNC milled.

Everybody has a favorite or two in a SxS shotgun discussion.
The Model 21 will draw a lot of comments from both directions.