As a young guy I did a lot of hunting with an uncle who loaned me his 16 ga Fox Sterlingworth double. Even as a young teen I immediately sensed the quality of the gun in my hands. As the years passed the price of such guns in nice condition went up and I never did get the classic American shotgun I wanted but settled on a Browning 20 ga BSS Sporter. I have been very pleased with the quality and handling characteristics of this gun.
Just curious, what modern double barrel shotgun would you buy today at under 2000.00?

Kimber makes a really nice looking SxS in 20ga.

For less than $2k you're pretty much limited to something from Fausti's bottom end or a Dickerson, a turk-made gun which used to me sold under the S&W name.

Real doublegunners pooh-pooh the BSS but that is OK with me. I'll buy any one I come across at a decent price.

I had a 12 ga model that had great metal (NOT refinished) and the stock was quite literally beaten to death. I had it restocked in a semi-English style and was fairly fond of it until I determined I really could not shoot an English stock all that well. I sold it and changed to a pistol grip model, which, owing to the HUGE forearm, was just intolerably clubby. Someday I would like to restock it in a "compromise" pattern - a Prince of Wales stock and a much smaller forearm.

SKB made some nice little doubles that you can sometimes pick up for a fair price. I have one that belonged to a late friend. 20 ga, 25-inch barrels, quite a bit trimmer than the Browning - but I have the feeling the Browning is a slightly better gun (mechanically and workmanship). The Beretta 470 wasn't a terrible gun. I have seen a few that seemed pretty darned nice for the money but they were a bit over $2000. Can't comment on the inexpensive Eastern European guns, though I have looked at a few and wondered.

Generally you get what you pay for with doubles, and you have to pay pretty dearly. If you have a good Browning and just can't abide the stock - consider having someone who knows what they are doing restock it, or possibly alter its original stock to suit you. But be sure you will be OK with the weight (and likely balance) of the finished product. Brownings are not thin, whispy little guns. If that doesn't appeal, I'd look for one of the better versions of the Beretta. The last one I saw in 20 ga still rather hurts me that I could not justify buying it.

Look at the CZ line. There are a few that handle very well, and look good also.

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H Richard
SWCA1967 SWHF244

For the price the CZ line is a great buy.

I have had a long love affair with the 28-- When at one point shells were so hard to find and were over $20 a box, I decided to start loading my own shotgun shells. I went with PW presses and have three. 28. both 20's and 12 ga. Even have several hundred Remington new hulls so I can roll crimp some special loads. When I got Sarah, I decided to get her, her own gun. Being old, I didn't want to spend several grand, which I didn't have so I came up with this. It does just find.
Shells have it seems come down a bit, believe it or not, but I still would rather load my own. Factory choices are quite limited, and there are NONE using nickel shot that I know of. Here is Sarah pointing her first Quail early on.

Little dog and BIG tree. Nice pic.

I own this BSS 12 ga but have only tested it out once. I cant claim experience as I bought it NIB probley around 1977. Its a safe queen. I only mention it as I have looked at prices on the net and see there are some fine looking ones for under your $2,000s. No, they arent made today but used/new are out there.

Double barrelled shotguns are luxury items for rich men.

If I had to have one under $2,000, I'd hunt a good SKB. I think the Weatherbys are from SKB, but probably cost more.

The Brownings made by Miroku are probably good guns. Not sure about spare parts or service for either brand.

In the UK, where doubles are the custom, Beretta seems to be the brand now most sought by those who cannot afford a London-made "Best" gun. I have a British correspondent who has a pair of Purdeys from her father, but who usually shoots game with a Beretta. Her usual quarry is pheasants and woodcock. She also rides to the hounds after foxes, which probably says something about her financial and social status!

However, the better Berettas considerably exceed $2,000. If you can find one of their simpler guns once sold here as the BL series, those may be under that sum. Jack O' Connor once mentioned giving one to his white hunter as a tip. He said it was a very nice gun for the money, but hardly equal to his favorite Berettas, which were in the SO series. It is worth noting that O'Connor also observed that SKB guns were designed by someone "who had had a good look" at Beretta's boxlock guns. That was Jack's wry phrasing. (Some Japanese- made rifles appear to owe Sako a design debt, too...)

Frankly, I don't think you should be looking at buying a double gun if you have to ask this question. They are not for poor men and they are not for men who don't know that market very well. They are also likely to be costly to repair, if you can even find a local gunsmith who'll do the work. Most so-called "gunsmiths" today aren't worthy of the name.

That said, I'd look for a SKB or Ithaca (made by SKB) that has seen little or no use. I wish you good fortune. A mystery author I know who owns a Browning BSS likes it a lot, but she isn't really a "gun person." Guns like hers were imported for only a short time, and I think were really made in S. Korea, maybe by a Miroku subsidiary. Her gun is either a true sidelock or has false sideplates. I think they may have been real sidelock guns. Browning can tell you more.

Start by finding and buying the second edition of the late Don Zutz's book, "The Double Shotgun." For most people, it's the best item of its type.

I'm not sure why Feral and I always seem to own the same guns. I have a BSS I bought in 1974 and still like it. Its my hunting gun and I seem to shoot it pretty well (for me.) It was well within the price range since I paid $274.00 for it back then. Because I own one I always look at them when I see one offered for sale. The current price range seems to be around $1400-1500. If I saw a 20 for less, I'd be tempted. I just like the way it fits and shoots for me.

A year or so I gave in to my lust for a Winchester M21. I've wanted one for years, but they always seem to cost around $10,000. Or up. So when I found one for a lot less that was prewar and had sk1 and sk2 chokes, I just spent the money (not really, I invested. My estate can recover it.)

Feral's case is probably worth $500 these days!

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Dick Burg

Are you gonna tell us what the gun is?

I don't know the modern SxS's at all but a couple of the guys I shoot with every week have CZ's. They love them and they have had no problems with them at all. They shoot sporting clays everyweek as well as some skeet so they do run some ammo thru them.
I couldn't tell you models or prices but they weren't top-o-the line things w/bling all over them. Just nice handling, nice looking hunting type shotguns.

The BSS holds up well if you go used but a fairly recent gun. Some people say the stocks are to hefty, but can't please everyone. At least they can be trimmed down.

Just from the amount of work I get in fixing single selective triggers on both old and new guns,,I'd stay away from them. Sooner or later if they double or balk,,you'll never trust it again but some people just can't seem to pick up the double trigger thing.
I must say I've never had a BSS single trigger problem brought to me.
Everything from the Parkers, LC Smith and Foxes to Spanish graded guns, Miller single trigger conversions, new Ruger Gold Labels and lots of Winchester 21's with problems.
At least on a double trigger gun you can pull both triggers at once if you really want that particular experience,,or not.

Older guns are more likely to be the results of someone 'adjusting' things inside. But even new mfg guns have problems sometimes and factory repair is not always that great when the factory is in Turkey and the US importer is just that,,an importer. Some are a lot better than others at after the sale service.

I'd still buy a nice the nicest condition Ithaca NID or Fox Sterlingworth for that price,,or a Belgian/Austrian/German made pre-WW2 gun,,but that's just me.
Nothing fancy, extractors and double triggers.
Even the postwar E.German made SxS's are a good value in the plainer grades. Merkel, Simson, Sauer all built in E Germany for export are good buys. Most probably all made at the Thalmann (sp?) plant in Suhl anyway.
Exports were usually marked Q1 for the better quality. Q2 and Q3 ect from there on down

I believe the Brownings have a pretty high-quality mechanical trigger and are not prone to doubling. At least I have never heard of anyone having trouble with one doubling. I really like them, but it is a bit hard to think of spending $1500 +/- for one these days when you bought your first one for about one-third of that or less.

The little 28 shown above appears to be a Huglu. Not finely made but seem to be very serviceable little guns.

This is the only double barrel that ever interested me:



Now, if that were a 629,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

I have a CZ Bobwhite SXS in 16 Gauge. It is not as pretty as some e other guns mentioned in this thread, but looks pretty good to me.

It shoots well enough for me, and for the price, it is excellent. I think my wife paid about $800.00 for it a few years ago.

I think CZ no longer makes it, but there are almost always one or two for sale on AL or GB for about what mine cost.

Aloha,

You might look at Estate gun sales.

I picked up a nice Beretta O/U 686(I think) in 20 ga for the Wife

for under a $1,ooo. Right now it's a safe queen.

Had a BSS, 20ga, but gave it to a friend as a birthday present. Have a nice, but used SKB 200E that I haven't used in years, 20g a it is. PM me if interested.

Oh, sorry, a bobwhite in 28 gauge-- For the cost and my age, it does just fine. Want better wood and a high polish, go spend 2/3 grand. Oh yeah, Sarah was 10 weeks old in the above photo-- as it says.

Came close to getting one in 16 gauge, but I don't load for it, or a 410-- Still, nice guns for what they are, and you don't have to be afraid to use them.

I'm a side by side guy. My first SxS was also a 20 Gauge Browning BSS. It was a little tanky and I couldn't shoot it worth a darn. Lets say I could hit the side of barn with it even if I was inside the barn. It was a fit problem and a barrel regulation issue. I passed it on so no harm, no fowl ;^). It was the first of what is now a safe full of SxS.

For modern side by sides under $2K I would look to Turkish and Spanish makers. The Hugles (CZ or Dehaan) and Dickinsons are decent guns at their price point but they are heavy for any given gauge. The Ugartecheas made in Spain are nice and closer to, let say, the English ideal.

I have a nice little 28 gauge Turkish Huglu imported by DeHaan that cost in the $1000 range used. It is a nice gun but there are so many better options out there if you look at well used and well cared for classics.

Okay here is the big BUT...I would look for something older like a nice Fox Sterlingworth or Parker Trojan and VH. A nice English boxlock 12 gauge from a 2nd or third tear maker can be had below $2000. I just picked up a nice Belgian 12 gauge well within that price range that is much nicer than most current double at 2 or three times the cost. Really, some of the older English, Belgian and German box locks are the best buys in side by side right now but you do need to do your home work and know what your looking at when you buy. There are a lot of junk worn out guns out there.

My Christmas present to me. My Belgian Guild Gun (and a 20 Gauge Fox Sterlingworth).





My rainy day grouse gun the DeHaan 28

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Bill Bates

A used sterlingworth bought from a reliable source should honor a quick trial to see if it fires. The Foxes are quality guns and would be great to carry today as a hunting gun. Love the double triggers and extractors, not to many gunsmiths understand the single trig. today. The Huglu guns have a good reputation for reliability. That DeHaan 28 is sweet. I have a CZ side lock in 12 ga as my main hunting gun. It's made it 1964 in the Chec republic and is a great gun. Lots of hand fitting is in my CZ. Not sure what quality SXS's are made today. Larry

Good advice but I would include LC Smith. For a cheap gun I think a M311 Stevens beats a CZ or SKB. The best of the best is a M21 Winchester. Larry

I own an SKB Model 200E in 20 gauge, a 1916 A.H. Fox Sterlingworth in 12 gauge, and a CZ in 12 gauge. I think if I had to pick just one, I'd probably go with the SKB. All are excellent guns, but that little SKB seems to fit just right for some reason.

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Pack light and cinch tight.

Don't ignore Fox Sterlingworth, Parker VH, L.C. Smith and English Boxlocks.

At least try some of the above. All are available for less than 2K, and all are superior handling guns compared with many of the guns in current production.

The classics are special. If you're thinking about a sxs for 2K you have a wide choice of excellent guns.

Bill those guns are lovely. That 20 ga. Sterlingworth is a prize. No finer American gun than a Fox.

Mr. Bates knows whereof he speaks. He puts a lot of time and miles on the ground every season.

It's an individual thing but I've never picked up a BSS that felt lively, which is the way a SxS field gun should feel. The SKB guns are nice (a 280 was my first SxS), but only available with a single trigger--a good one though. The 100s are sweet and not expensive.

The last few years the Spanish guns have been uneven in quality. There's a lot of turmoil in the labor force over there. I have an older AyA 4/53 that is my go to gun and it's had thousands of rounds thru it in all conditions and it's still tight and pretty and very high quality.

I've also got a 28 ga. DeHaan/Huglu--like Bill it's my rainy day and steep mountain gun.

The Sterlingworths can still be found fairly reasonably--some years back a 16 could be had for short money. That's changing and prices are a lot more than they were a few years ago. But it you find a 20 like Bill's--they didn't make a lot of those.

As far as new guns, the CZ lineup are very serviceable and they have a great warranty. There are a lot of these standing up to very hard use and sailing right along. It'd be a good place to start to see if you like SxS guns.

The best deals are the Belgian/French guild guns.

The most important thing is the old saw "buy the gun, not the story", or in this case maker. There are some new Spanish guns that are made as well as any ever were, some not. And the guild guns come in varying degrees of condition and quality as well. Learn what to look for, or better yet take someone who does. A lot of old American guns got a lot of use and need to be looked over, and barrel wall thickness checked if you can find someone with a gauge.

And always check any SxS for barrel regulation, particularly the sub gauges.

What is manufactured by Huglu and now imported by CZ was brought in previously by Mark DeHaan under his name brand. The only issue with those were "some" had soft firing pins.

That problem was corrected and you can now find those shotguns on the used market fairly inexpensively. I have a 20 gauge that weights just under six pounds and handles like a feather. Mark did the triggers so they are very nice.

You can read up on Huglu here: Shotgunworld.com ? View forum - Huglu Shotguns

Pownal55 we didn't hear what you plan on doing with said side by side. I see you're from Vermont so I hope the King Bonasa umbellus is your game of choice. What ever your intended use that double for, let us know. It does make a difference in what we recommend.

For grouse a nice light, quick handling, opened choked side by side is what your looking for. Take a good long hard look at an AH Fox of one of the lower grades. Another good choice would be an English Webley & Scott 700 12 gauge. They weigh in at an ounce either way of 6 1/2 lbs. A really clean 700 might run a little more but you'll get a shotgun that is 95% of the way to an English best grade.

BTW, Cooter, it only feels like a lot of miles on the ground when I'm hiking my fat butt around my local coverts. Thank God the pups will wait for me to catchup.

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Bill Bates

I have a very nice old Browning Citori (in like new condition) with less than 100 shells fired. It is Over and Under, but I like it just fine. I cannot imagine I would ever want a nicer one or a more expensive one. This puppy is probably worth a lot more than I paid for it back in the 1980's.

Well Bill,
Partridge were always my favorite bird followed by woodcock but for some reason they seem to have become scarce here in southern Vermont. My son and I do a pheasant hunt in NY state once a year but every time we go out He grabs the BSS and I use my Citori Gran Lightning 20. I can't blame him for leaving his 870 pump at home but I need another side by side under the circumstances. Loads of good info out of you guys and I guess the guns aren't getting any cheaper while I think about it.

Y'all go ahead and laugh at me but I have a 12ga Stoeger with interchangeable chokes. It shoots where it's pointed on a skeet field and patterns very nicely. It ain't exactly good lookin' but not what I'd call ugly either. Only problem is that with anything but target loads or light field loads it kicks the stuffin" out of me. Magnums? fuggetaboutit!

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Regards, Ron
USASA 1965/69

Stoeger double defense Side by Side 20ga my grandpa suggested it shortly before his passing.

Mossberg Silver Reserve II

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Jorge

I've been looking at these on the Mossberg website. They look nice and the o/u is even available with ejectors for a bit less than $800.00. Anyone have experience with these?

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Regards, Ron
USASA 1965/69

Howdy,
Maybe not "Modern" but the old 24 fits me and I shoot it well.
I have let two of them get away from me over the years but I'm getting the itch as we have been shooting shotguns a little more than we used to.
Nice looking guns in this thread!
Thanks
Mike

Ferrel that's a pretty piece of wood on that one. I have one identical to yours but it has the gold (selective) trigger. I've never fired it and when I bought it it looked like it had never been fired as well. Was gonna ope up the chokes to IC/M and use for ducks to replace an older one I had and buldged the barrel on but never got around to it. Plus I remember how much it kicks when compared to the Benelli I shoot now.

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Forum consigliere

The side by sides were a Euro thing with the British also having a go at it.............

They put out some great wood work and metal scrolling that would pop your eyes out.

I never had the money to attain one but did get to shoot a Fox SxS . It is amazing what a well machined and custom fitted shotgun can feel like and do in the shooting department.

I went 25 for 25 at the trap range with a 28 Ga. !!

A SxS is not just a 10Ga sawed of Stage Coach gun............
and yes, I have one of those also........

Side by sides can be even more interesting than pre-war Smiths. Read a lot, find someone that shots them to handle. A 12ga box lock non ejector that has 28" barrels and weighs between 6.5 and 7 lbs. can be a joy to shoot with the right loads. remember buy the gun not the name. Learn the basics of reading proofs. Find out what off face is, minimum barrel wall thickness, correct chamber length and what loads to use. I would be glad to help you if you want to get in touch with me. Mark

Go to a shotgun site and ask this same question. You'll get wildly different answers.

There isn't a new SxS for under $2K, made today, that I'd waste my money on. If you're only going to shoot it a few times a year, a Stoeger might be fine, but if you want a reliable gun that will last, get an 870.

For a SxS your best value is in the used market. The A.H. Fox Sterlingworth can be found for around $1K in good shape.


First of all, you can't find a M21 for less than $5K and that would be a steal. Secondly, the "best of the best" it ain't.

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Freedom isn't free.

The 21 Winchester was originally an assembly line mfg shotgun.

It really didn't have much radically different going for it over anything else that was out there at the time in it it's original Field Grade form.
A different way of assembling the breech of the bbls together, a longer action 'nose' for greater leverage than most other SxS's, a few different methods of mfg'rg the frame itself so as to make it easier and cheaper to make. It's a very strong shotgun but it's nothing special inside either in design or workmanship.

It has hammers w/integral firing pins just like a Fox or Parker. Sears the same as both of them. Nothing radical there.

You can add high grade wood and engraving, but the inner workings are still the same.
Some mfg'rs ejector and trigger mechanisms are more solid than others in long term use. There's always a weak point in the mechanism somewhere that shows up with a lot of use and wear no matter what the make. Some repair and rebuild more easily than others.

Some people love the 21,,others don't. Same with any brand.
They are a heavy shotgun especially in the smaller gauges and don't handle as nicely for many as some others.
But put one out for sale at a good price and it's gone. It's got the magic Big Red W name.
You can still find 12ga guns for around $3k in the early extractor double trigger configuration. Not a lot of them but they're still out there. Prices go up quickly after that. Small bores go off the chart.

They are easy to repair due to their relatively new design and assembly line origin. Parts are easily available and easily fitted. That's a plus for sure.
Coil springs through out the mechanism ecept for the long flat sear springs. But again nothing much different from what the other guys were offering.
It takes a few tricks in working on them but there are more than a few gunsmiths around that can take care of them. The single selective trigger can give some problems but they are easier to repair than the older Parker or LC Smith SST's for sure.
The last run of Winchester frames was in the 1950's.
They are of a high nickle content steel and is very tough.
Those made by the CSMCo of N.Britain are of 8620 steel ,, wire EDM & CNC milled.

Everybody has a favorite or two in a SxS shotgun discussion.
The Model 21 will draw a lot of comments from both directions.

Here, check this one out: Gun Library: A. H. Fox Sterllingworth 12 Ga Philadelphia Gun : Cabela's

Yes, it's old and yes, it's well used. Even so, it'll be better than any new SxS you can buy for less than $2K today. AND, if you don't like it, refinish the stock and sell it for $1K and pocket $200 for yourself.

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Freedom isn't free.

My last double was the SKB 150 in 20-gauge, modified and full chokes. Great gun! Light, easy to carry, perfect fit for me. One of my sons must have agreed because it now lives at his house.

I've had a CZ Bobwhite in 28 for several years now. It has been my 'go-to' gun for a couple of South Dakota pheasant trips. Using handloaded nickel #5 1/2's, she is an absolute death ray.
Great Turk-gun for the money......

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Ret'd LEO
SWCA #2275

I bet Turnbull Restorations could turn that into a real gem.

I've seen a number of wonderful restorations of Sterlingworths, particularly 16 ga. guns. Just fantastic stuff.

Understand that a lot of the older American doubles, the Philadelphia Foxes included, have very low stock dimensions, like 2 3/4-2 7/8 DAH, which would be hard for most people to shoot well.

So those restorations include new stocks, and then you're getting into money. The late Philly guns and most of the Utica guns have modern dimensions.

Edit to say that SDH (his real name is easy to ferret out) of this forum has done some Sterlingworth "restorations". I have his book on shotguns and his personal Sterlingworth is beyond spectacular.

A local pawn shop has had a 16 gauge on the rack for close to a year now, priced about $750,

I've never asked to see it. I'd fall in love and buy the damn thing when I have no use for it. Then I'd have something else to reload. Then I'd have to get another bird dog, cuz what else are you gonna do with a 16 SXS? And it's probably Mod & Full, so I'd have to get the barrels opened up.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You said that like it was a bad thing.

Merry Christmas from someone that has had to open chokes and can't imagine life without a bird dog or two.

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Bill Bates

I have an Fox Model B 16 ga. that was my grandpa's first gun he bought when he returned from France after WWI. He gave to me in '66 when I was 12 and I have used it for everything from woodcock to Wild Turkeys since. Nuttin' fancy but it fits me and still shoots very well. When my youngest began to walk behind me and the bird dog a few years back, he too wanted a SxS, unlike his older brother who inherited my Ithaca 37. Back then finding a SxS anywhere was nearly impossible. One day while at one of his youth hockey tournaments in a nearby town we chanced across a Baikal(at that time imported by EAA) in a takedown case with several chokes for a price we could afford. I knew t was not a heirloom, but a good entry level Shotgun for a beginner. He's had it for a decade. Soon after we bought it Remington began to import them and put their name on 'em. None of the Remmies I've seen had the fit and finish of the EAA gun. He still gets flak at the sporting clays range, but consistently outshoots those that scoff him. Folks make fun of him in the pheasant field because of the "cheap POC double" he uses, but he is the one that usually has the fullest game bag and the most amount of shells left at the end of the day. I've spent 4 times the amount I gave for the Baikal for firearms that have not been 1/4th as dependable. Maybe we got a lucky and got a good one. But the proof has been in the game bag, not the price tag. A gun is a tool and the one that uses that tool will never be any better than the tool they use. Most folks never find the limits of their tools, but like to think they do.

It would be a great thing if I didn't have kids at home, live in the burbs, and quail hadn't disappeared from my part of the Texas Cross Timbers.

Back in the 90s, I hit the brush every weekend of quail season, which lasted about 4 months, with my trusty Brit and SKB 500.

I guess I could use a 16 for doves, but I don't like to eat them. I've never been much of a waterfowler and don't even know what non-toxic options are these days, and if an old A. H. Fox could handle them. I suppose there's always clays.

Wow, what an ol grouch I've turned into Bah humbug!!

I guess on the plus side, with a 16, no one will bum ammo or try to steal your empty hulls.

Merry Christmas to you and those pretty Setters. Wish I was in that pic.

Hey BuckXVR, I got an Ithaca 37 12ga, I picked tobacco for a summer to pay for it. I got another after my father passed a 16 ga, what a difference in quality, so deep blue. Now I got a Fox Savage model B. Like you said not collectors stuff, but damn good scatter guns.