Here is a quick summary of what has happened. For most of you, this may be unbelievable. It is for me.

Jan 2013: I order a stainless Sparrow from a LGS at the encouragement of their salesman. I made a $400 down payment. It takes 3 months to arrive at LGS. Form 4 with CLEO signature is immediately sent off. The LGS and I are in western NC. I also have a NC concealed permit which replaces NICS checks.

Spring 2013: I go by and pay the rest of the money due and sales tax. About $60 The LGS now has been paid in full.

Winter 2013: ATF contacts LGS to get him to correct his errors on form 4.

April 9, 2014: ATF approves my form and mails stamp to LGS.

April 25th and April 29th, 2014: I go by three times to pick it up. Each time I get some BS story about how only one of the owners can release it to me. His mother, who helps run the store, says they can't give it out because the one owner needs to contact the JUSTICE DEPT and finish the paperwork. I SAW THE STAMP MYSELF. It has my serial number written across the front with a magic marker. I filled out a 4473 and left in disgust. "The one brother has been out of town".

April 29th: I call the ATF and explain my situation. The officer/clerk listens to my story, finds it very odd and says I will need an ATF specialist. I get his voicemail, explain my story and haven't heard back from him.

Here are my concerns: MY NAME is now responsible for the suppressor. Doesn't the ATF REQUIRE the transfer to take place as soon as possible after receiving the stamp? That's what is says on form 4 itself in the instructions section 3. What is this **** about the Justice Dept paperwork AFTER the ATF has just approved the application.

They did NOT take the suppressor out of the safe while I was there, but I did see the form 4 with the cancelled stamp.

My wife keeps cautioning me to remain calm. After all, the LGS still has my suppressor locked up in his safe or at least I hope so. If I ever get an ATF specialist in a live call, I will see what I need to do to file a complaint and hope the ensuing investigation finds my suppressor.

When they initially handed me MY form 4, they gave me TWO pieces of paper. The one underneath was an approved form 4 for ANOTHER customer!!!!

Have any of you ever heard of anything like this before? Will the ATF show up and start demanding records and start checking serial numbers of everything in his safe?

Sounds really sketchy. I would start by demanding to see the suppressor for myself, even if they won't let it leave the store for whatever reason.

Someone has your property without your permission.
Isn't this theft?
I would be on to the horn to the ATF daily.
Send a registered letter to both LGS and ATF requesting my property.
I am no lawyer just a hot head with a phone and a pen.

It'z a scam

Wow, that seems very wrong. Have you had dealings with this LGS before?

I can't tell from your post, so I have to ask if you have ever actually seen the suppressor?

In addition to the ATF, I'd suggest contacting the police agency that has jurisdiction where the LGS is located. If there is no suppressor in the store, what did they do with your money?

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Can open, worms everywhere.

I would make sure that the dealer actually HAS the suppressor. It may be an ATF problem or a dealer/supplier problem.

Any honest LGS would be anxious to get this cleared up. When I was procuring equipment I'd run into people that would promise everything then start making excuses, sometimes as long as a year.

If the paper came back, it is no longer theirs. It is yours. If they have it without paper saying it is theirs, they are in possession of "unregistered NFA item". That's a heavy fine and a long jail term. I would have the police there tomorrow.

But that's just me.

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I always take precautions

This, x10,000.

Alpo hit the nail on the head... I would call your local BATF office and ask if they may be able to assist. (This is of course if you have no need to deal with this clown show of a shop again... they probably will not like getting a visit). It is not legal for them to 'hold' your can without your permission. Good luck!!




ON a side note, I bet the folks working there (who sound like they don't really have much of a clue) put the wrong serial number, or transferred the serial number meant for you..... I also would demand to see your merchandise, even if they could not let it leave..... if they cannot show it, you have a theft case.....

It's more likely to be something as simple as the other folks in the store have been instructed to never fool with Class 3 stuff. That's not uncommon.

Now that IS a possibility. A local store only allows the owner to do any NFA stuff. If he's not in the store, the other employees say, "Sorry, can't help you."

Dumb.

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I always take precautions

Bunch of BS.
If the stamp is in, all you do is fill out a 4473 and get your stamp and suppressor.
The 4473 doesn't even need to be called in, there's a box they check stating it's for an NFA item, and they're done.

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Hold my beer and watch this!

From what you relate, sounds as there is something truly wrong here. The two approved form 4's would be sounding bells for me. They could have sold your suppressor to the other guy and now you wait for yours. Or they screwed up royally and are making you wait until they get another one in. Either way from the limited knowledge regarding class 3 stuff they are the ones in deep do do. if it were my I'd be on the horn to the local aft office while in the shop. That should get some action. Hand the phone to the guy and tell him it's the atf. Now the onus is on him and he has no choice but to deliver or start making excuses. Frank

I would explain the above to the folks at the G.S. and advise them if I didn't have my property in 36 hours, I would be back with the ATF or local L/E.

Be polite but firm and give them a little time to make it right.

Good Luck

the people at this lgs are a bunch of clowns or thieves and maybe both.

Form 4s have the serial number of the suppressor on them.
Can't just give him another suppressor as the serial number is registered to him.

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Hold my beer and watch this!

I physically saw it a year ago when it finally arrived at their shop. I verified the serial number before I filled out my form 4. I did track down late last night the local NC office of the ATF and sent a complaint via e-mail. I will be calling them today just as soon as they open.

The general consensus from people I have talked to over the past few months is that they are unorganized, never follow up on customer requests, etc. Not the sharpest knife in the drawer, but not dishonest.

I am also now worried about whether my suppressor will be NEW, or have they been using it as an in house toy. They do rent about 40 different guns there. There is an indoor range attached.

Once I can get a live conversation with an ATF agent, this should get resolved within minutes or it will get unbelievably ugly.

I'll update everyone tonight.

I'm with your wife and Phil.

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... a little behind in my work

Strange. At the shop where I work 'n play part time, we deal in Class III stuff, and the whole goal is to get the item OUT of there as soon as the Form 4 comes back from ATF. After all, it's been paid for - it's just cluttering the storage space and needs to GO as soon as paperwork arrives.
Good luck.....

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Ret'd LEO
SWCA #2275

Remain calm. It helps to keep a cool head in these situations.

Do you have another class 3 LGS that you can talk to? Maybe asking them if this is normal.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

You saw this suppressor a YEAR ago? Seriously? A YEAR?
I think they may have "lost" it.

You should suggest this possibility to the ATF and request that they run a firearms audit. This LGS may be due for one, anyway. All they have to do is sign it out of their bound book. It's yours.

I hope this works out for you. I have never heard anything like this before.

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John
S&WCA Life Member

Theymay very well have given your can to someone else and are trying to get yours back and trade themout...????
Good luckyour situation ***...
JIM..................

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SWCA # L-1911

"Winter 2013: ATF contacts LGS to get him to correct his errors on form 4."

^^^^ Here's your answer. You're dealing with amateurs and idiots.

I would contact BATF and inform whomever you speak with that your LGS is REFUSING to release your approved and registered suppressor.

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I'm with the banned ...

He beat me to it.

And your concern that it's been USED would be in my mind as well.

Call the ATF and get your property. Sounds like the Shop is not equipped to deal with Class 4 items.

Seriously. A year is not all that bad.

My last tax stamp arrived in January this year... about 11 months after I sent in the paperwork.

NFA items take a while. I got my short barrel rifle before the panic ant that was about a 5 month wait. Now with more people applying it's taking up to a year.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

When I got my suppressor approved there was no additional paperwork. ATF approved it and I picked up the accessory.

I would ask to make an appointment with the owner or whoever they say is the only sainted soul and call the day before to confirm it.

Then your gun shop messed up too.
You still need to fill out a 4473 for it when you pick it up!

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Hold my beer and watch this!

That's how it is in our shop. I am not to touch the "pew-pew-pew" stuff under penalty of death. Appointments are made with the owner only. But phone calls are immediate and the appointments are made within a day or two of notification.

I dont know about the suppressors but a couple of years ago I sold a Holmes MP82 machine pistol I built in 1983 and the paperwork with the stamp came to me and I built the pistol. I sold it through a class 3 dealer in SW Mo. he handled every thing, I kept the pistol and he did all the paperwork, he sold the pistol to some one in Oklahoma City and this guys paperwork came to me, in the meantime the dealer sent me a new plastic case in the box and a Fed-X shipping label to stick on it. I put the paperwork in the case with the mags and the weapon, stuck the label on the outside and took it to the Fed-X place and asked the clerk what to do, just put it on the pile there in the corner. He never asked me anything about what it was or anything. I would threaten these twits with a vist from the ATF I know they watch class 3 dealers very closely and these folks need a lot of SUPERVISION. Jeff

Had my share of confused FFLs. One guy was mega baffled that I could be a foreign national with local DL. Apparently the NICS check lady at Carson City was also behind the eight ball on this one. I got my gun, but he showed no interest in the required proofs of residency I provided. His butt, not mine.

I had a similar problem, so to speak. I paid for my M1 Thompson, nothing happened. He never received my M1. I saw on his desk the name of the seller. I called and found out ,he sent a deposit , then a bad check for balance. I asked him in a very aggressive way and he admitted ,what he did and did not have money to renew his C3 Lic. Called ATF and the told me about another C3 dealer. Went to him . I paid the balance for the M1,
had it transferred to the new Dealer. Sued the S--T out of the old one, got firearms instead of money, sold them got my money back. All this took over a year ,back when NFA transfers were taking only 3 months M1 transferable was less than $500. Bought 3 more from the new Dealer and never looked back. Sorry you are going through this. Keep us informed
and maybe when you get your Sparrow (great suppressor I hear) you might let us know who screwed you.

Good news and bad news. After three days of trying to get a live agent on the phone, I finally got one in the Charlotte NC regional office that called back. Very nice woman and she knew her stuff. She offered to call the dealer and assist. I gave her the phone number and their FFL number. Twenty minutes later she calls back and asks if the dealer had called me yet. I said no. She was puzzled. She made it very clear to the dealer that they were to call me immediately and say to come by. I was about 15 minutes away and went to the dealer. The owner was courteous and did mention that the ATF had just called him. It took 5 minutes and I left with the stamped form 4 and a brand new unfired suppressor. I had my goal met, so there was no need to start any confrontations or throw blame or rules around. This is obviously the good news.

Now for the bad news: According to the ATF, the suppressor belongs to the dealer even after the stamp gets issued. The approved form 4 merely allows ME to buy it. The dealer can at any time up until physical transfer, void the sale and keep it. Even if it was paid for. The agent said they actually do get lots of requests from dealers to cancel sales. The dealer then has to request the stamp be voided and the $200 refunded to the applicant. If they do that, they can keep the item and refuse to do the transfer. ATF has zero control over the money paid for an item to the dealer. That's my problem.

I asked why would a dealer choose to do this. I was told that dealers will sometimes want to keep the item themselves. Maybe they sold it too cheap a year ago, maybe they want it for a rental or display unit, etc.

The transfer is not final until physical delivery to the buyer and a form 4473 filled out. No NICS check needed for a form 4 item, so the transfer needs no additional processing.

Great news, happy it worked out in the end and there was an end... NOW.. WHERE IS THE PICTURE OR IT DIDN'T HAPPEN!!!

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Jack C

Now name the dealer so we can avoid him

AFS

Does the serial # on the brand new suppressor match the one on the stamp????
JIM..............

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SWCA # L-1911

Glad to hear your fears are put to rest and all is well. Now go have fun with your new can.

[QUOTE=gordon21;137880875]Good news and bad news. After three days of trying to get a live agent on the phone, I finally got one in the Charlotte NC regional office that called back. Very nice woman and she knew her stuff. She offered to call the dealer and assist. I gave her the phone number and their FFL number. Twenty minutes later she calls back and asks if the dealer had called me yet. I said no. She was puzzled. She made it very clear to the dealer that they were to call me immediately and say to come by. I was about 15 minutes away and went to the dealer. The owner was courteous and did mention that the ATF had just called him. It took 5 minutes and I left with the stamped form 4 and a brand new unfired suppressor. I had my goal met, so there was no need to start any confrontations or throw blame or rules around. This is obviously the good news.

Now for the bad news: According to the ATF, the suppressor belongs to the dealer even after the stamp gets issued. The approved form 4 merely allows ME to buy it. The dealer can at any time up until physical transfer, void the sale and keep it. Even if it was paid for. The agent said they actually do get lots of requests from dealers to cancel sales. The dealer then has to request the stamp be voided and the $200 refunded to the applicant. If they do that, they can keep the item and refuse to do the transfer. ATF has zero control over the money paid for an item to the dealer. That's my problem.

I asked why would a dealer choose to do this. I was told that dealers will sometimes want to keep the item themselves. Maybe they sold it too cheap a year ago, maybe they want it for a rental or display unit, etc.

The transfer is not final until physical delivery to the buyer and a form 4473 filled out. No NICS check needed for a form 4 item, so the transfer needs no additional processing.

I am glad it is resolved.

I would recommend researching the repute of any class III dealer before going through them. After reading this post.
Lately some FFL dealers in my area have done some ethically questionable things.

Let the buyer beware.