LGS has my tax stamp and won't release suppressor!!!

Here is a quick summary of what has happened. For most of you, this may be unbelievable. It is for me.

Jan 2013: I order a stainless Sparrow from a LGS at the encouragement of their salesman. I made a $400 down payment. It takes 3 months to arrive at LGS. Form 4 with CLEO signature is immediately sent off. The LGS and I are in western NC. I also have a NC concealed permit which replaces NICS checks.

Spring 2013: I go by and pay the rest of the money due and sales tax. About $60 The LGS now has been paid in full.

Winter 2013: ATF contacts LGS to get him to correct his errors on form 4.

April 9, 2014: ATF approves my form and mails stamp to LGS.

April 25th and April 29th, 2014: I go by three times to pick it up. Each time I get some BS story about how only one of the owners can release it to me. His mother, who helps run the store, says they can't give it out because the one owner needs to contact the JUSTICE DEPT and finish the paperwork. I SAW THE STAMP MYSELF. It has my serial number written across the front with a magic marker. I filled out a 4473 and left in disgust. "The one brother has been out of town".

April 29th: I call the ATF and explain my situation. The officer/clerk listens to my story, finds it very odd and says I will need an ATF specialist. I get his voicemail, explain my story and haven't heard back from him.

Here are my concerns: MY NAME is now responsible for the suppressor. Doesn't the ATF REQUIRE the transfer to take place as soon as possible after receiving the stamp? That's what is says on form 4 itself in the instructions section 3. What is this **** about the Justice Dept paperwork AFTER the ATF has just approved the application.

They did NOT take the suppressor out of the safe while I was there, but I did see the form 4 with the cancelled stamp.

My wife keeps cautioning me to remain calm. After all, the LGS still has my suppressor locked up in his safe or at least I hope so. If I ever get an ATF specialist in a live call, I will see what I need to do to file a complaint and hope the ensuing investigation finds my suppressor.

When they initially handed me MY form 4, they gave me TWO pieces of paper. The one underneath was an approved form 4 for ANOTHER customer!!!!

Have any of you ever heard of anything like this before? Will the ATF show up and start demanding records and start checking serial numbers of everything in his safe?

Sounds really sketchy. I would start by demanding to see the suppressor for myself, even if they won't let it leave the store for whatever reason.

Someone has your property without your permission.
Isn't this theft?
I would be on to the horn to the ATF daily.
Send a registered letter to both LGS and ATF requesting my property.
I am no lawyer just a hot head with a phone and a pen.

It'z a scam

Wow, that seems very wrong. Have you had dealings with this LGS before?

I can't tell from your post, so I have to ask if you have ever actually seen the suppressor?

In addition to the ATF, I'd suggest contacting the police agency that has jurisdiction where the LGS is located. If there is no suppressor in the store, what did they do with your money?

The very first thing...

I would make sure that the dealer actually HAS the suppressor. It may be an ATF problem or a dealer/supplier problem.

Any honest LGS would be anxious to get this cleared up. When I was procuring equipment I'd run into people that would promise everything then start making excuses, sometimes as long as a year.

If the paper came back, it is no longer theirs. It is yours. If they have it without paper saying it is theirs, they are in possession of "unregistered NFA item". That's a heavy fine and a long jail term. I would have the police there tomorrow.

But that's just me.

GaryS said:

If there is no suppressor in the store, what did they do with your money?

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This, x10,000.

Alpo hit the nail on the head... I would call your local BATF office and ask if they may be able to assist. (This is of course if you have no need to deal with this clown show of a shop again... they probably will not like getting a visit). It is not legal for them to 'hold' your can without your permission. Good luck!!




ON a side note, I bet the folks working there (who sound like they don't really have much of a clue) put the wrong serial number, or transferred the serial number meant for you..... I also would demand to see your merchandise, even if they could not let it leave..... if they cannot show it, you have a theft case.....

It's more likely to be something as simple as the other folks in the store have been instructed to never fool with Class 3 stuff. That's not uncommon.

Now that IS a possibility. A local store only allows the owner to do any NFA stuff. If he's not in the store, the other employees say, "Sorry, can't help you."

Dumb.

Bunch of BS.
If the stamp is in, all you do is fill out a 4473 and get your stamp and suppressor.
The 4473 doesn't even need to be called in, there's a box they check stating it's for an NFA item, and they're done.

From what you relate, sounds as there is something truly wrong here. The two approved form 4's would be sounding bells for me. They could have sold your suppressor to the other guy and now you wait for yours. Or they screwed up royally and are making you wait until they get another one in. Either way from the limited knowledge regarding class 3 stuff they are the ones in deep do do. if it were my I'd be on the horn to the local aft office while in the shop. That should get some action. Hand the phone to the guy and tell him it's the atf. Now the onus is on him and he has no choice but to deliver or start making excuses. Frank

Alpo said:

If the paper came back, it is no longer theirs. It is yours. If they have it without paper saying it is theirs, they are in possession of "unregistered NFA item". That's a heavy fine and a long jail term. I would have the police there tomorrow.

But that's just me.

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I would explain the above to the folks at the G.S. and advise them if I didn't have my property in 36 hours, I would be back with the ATF or local L/E.

Be polite but firm and give them a little time to make it right.

Good Luck

the people at this lgs are a bunch of clowns or thieves and maybe both.

They could have sold your suppressor to the other guy and now you wait for yours. Or they screwed up royally and are making you wait until they get another one in.

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Form 4s have the serial number of the suppressor on them.
Can't just give him another suppressor as the serial number is registered to him.

I physically saw it a year ago when it finally arrived at their shop. I verified the serial number before I filled out my form 4. I did track down late last night the local NC office of the ATF and sent a complaint via e-mail. I will be calling them today just as soon as they open.

The general consensus from people I have talked to over the past few months is that they are unorganized, never follow up on customer requests, etc. Not the sharpest knife in the drawer, but not dishonest.

I am also now worried about whether my suppressor will be NEW, or have they been using it as an in house toy. They do rent about 40 different guns there. There is an indoor range attached.

Once I can get a live conversation with an ATF agent, this should get resolved within minutes or it will get unbelievably ugly.

I'll update everyone tonight.

gordon21 said:

Once I can get a live conversation with an ATF agent, this should get resolved within minutes or it will get unbelievably ugly.

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I'm with your wife and Phil.

Strange. At the shop where I work 'n play part time, we deal in Class III stuff, and the whole goal is to get the item OUT of there as soon as the Form 4 comes back from ATF. After all, it's been paid for - it's just cluttering the storage space and needs to GO as soon as paperwork arrives.
Good luck.....