Horrible service from S&W- Advice needed

[SWFan27]

I bought a new 617 and it needed a second warranty repair visit to S&W. I emailed the CEO along with someone from S&Ws upper management. I got it back in two weeks the second time and it now works perfectly and shoots like a dream. I have an old 41 also. Hope you get everything taken care of with yours.

 

[grover99]

I must be very lucky in that over the years I have owned many handguns and only once had a problem. Had a Super Blackhawk that was spitting lead from too large a cylinder-barrel gap. Contacted Ruger. They sent me a shipping label and had the gun returned in 10 days with a new barrel. That’s the way Service should be done.

 

[AlwaysArmed]

I sent my 63 back six times before they touched it.

 

[Autonomous]

One of my standard rants® here is send the gun back 'till they get it right.
The reasoning is to make the bean counters see there is expensive shipping for not having quality control or actually fixing defective parts.

 

[bobsguns]

I've had only one experience with S&W's CS & that was back in late 1990s. They got it fixed & back to me pretty quickly. It was a Performance Center J-frame, FWIW.

When Smith moved their HQ to TN, they left a lot of folks back in Mass. No clue where their warranty repair center is, someone can chime in with that if they know?

While it does sadden me to learn of Smith's sorry performance, it doesn't surprise me. They're not alone in this, sorry to say. Anyone who has had to make multiple repair trips to a dealership for a vehicle warranty repair will testify to this, IMO.

For S&W, the bean counters have long since taken control. QC was probably the first section to fall under the "efficiency" standards most mfg companies use these days. I would imagine the warranty dept is also under the same pressure to "clear" x-amount of warranty tickets per day/week.

As for "gunsmiths", I would wager large sums of $$ that they're NOT grads of a certified gun smithing school (Colorado School of Trades, for example). I would wager Smith have sent some of them through their "armorers' course" & called it done. I would also wager that most of them are probably under the age of 30 as well. Lack of experience = lower wages paid = more profit/lower costs to the company = happier shareholders = less pressure on the company execs. That's just a sad reality these days.

I'm somewhat thankful that the TN S&W HQ is only about an hour from me, straight up Hwy 411 North. I have bought only 1 or 2 brand new Smiths in the last 5-6 years, all being revolvers. The rest were used guns, but in good shape. So I have been spared this multiple return headache.

OP, were I in your shoes, I would try to find the warranty dept manager's name & phone number. I would have a detailed list of the dates the gun went in & came back & give him that info. Be polite, he's under pressure from his bosses too. He's probably having a difficult time getting qualified help as well, like many repair facilities.

I agree there's absolutely no excuse for a gun to go back & forth 4 times for the same issue(s), IMO. Personally, *I* would've taken a few vacation days & driven there with the gun for a (ahem) personal discussion with someone.

My .o2

 

[sophie]

You surprise me at your patience. To have sent the gun to S&W 4 times and nothing actually done as far as a repair to correct your complaint, I would have talked to someone with authority and asked for a full refund on the Model 41 regardless. The products coming from S&W have declined in quality to the point it’s a shame. Good luck whatever you decide to do.

 

[HOUSTON RICK]

i will sound like my Dad, but here goes, everyone who knows how to do anything beyond taking your money has retired or will soon retire - be it lawyers, doctors, mechanics or manufacturers. It is likely impossible for S&W and other companies to find people who can pass a drug screen and show up to work more often than not.

 

[chief38]

I was hoping that when S&W moved to TN they would have a better and more qualified group of people to choose from when hiring employees. Finding "gun people" in MA is probably very challenging whereas TN should be easier I'd think.

Since it has been so long since their QC slide I am also guessing they have a very severe lack of true old time experts to pass down methods, procedures, ethics and follow through. Unfortunately, without these old timer's the new employees have little clue as how to properly ship handguns in the condition they should be! I do hope that the move will help S&W, but in my heart I know the real issue is with the CEO, President and manager's as they are the ones ultimately responsible for what their Company ships out the door.

 

[ladder13]

Patiently waiting for CZ to make a bid to take over.

 

[AveragEd]

I hate to say it but Smith & Wesson's quality problems didn't just start. In the mid-1980s, I bought a new six-inch Model 57. As I looked over the sights when I went to shoot it, I noticed the sides of the barrel were quite wavy. I was younger and dumber then so I never considered returning it for correction.

But life with Smith & Wesson has been far from bad. My first S&W product was a new four-inch Model 19-3 in 1977. I was a newby to handgun reloading then and I admit to loading on the hot side. I started noticing the fired cases were hard to extract from the cylinder and when the pain in my palms became unbearable, I arranged to return the gun for repairs. They determined the cylinder bores were warped and replaced the cylinder under warranty.

A couple of years later, the condition returned and believe it or not, they replaced the cylinder again but this time sent a note along that no future replacements would be forthcoming under warranty and that I should tone down my handloads.

I later bought an 8-3/8" Model 14. It shot right to point of aim with 148-grain wadcutters when I shot at bullseye targets but on the few occasions when I wanted to hunt groundhogs on my in-laws' farm when the hay was too high for prone shooting with a rifle, I couldn't get it zeroed with 110-grain hollow points. They suggested I sent it back and replaced the rear sight blade with one that permitted the gun to be zeroed with either load.

My worst experience so far has been with Kimber. I had a Stainless Gold Match 1911 for which I wanted a 22LR conversion kit so I bought a Kimber Rimfire Target Conversion Kit, thinking that a Kimber product would work best on a frame of the same brand. It did everything but function properly - failures to feed, failures to fire, failures to extract and failures to eject were very common so I called for help. The very nice guy with whom I spoke instructed me to return the kit. Two months later, it was returned with paperwork saying they had "replaced small parts."

I guess the whole kit could be considered a "small part" but I was happy until I found it didn't function any better. Another call and another return but this time I suggested I send it back on my frame so it could be ruled out as a possible causation factor. This time they replaced the frame's mainspring housing - I had idea how that part could have anything to do with the problems I was having so I wasn't surprised when they persisted.

Suspecting I might be the problem, I had two friends shoot the gun but they had no better luck.

I called again and this time asked that the kit be replaced. I placed a small punch mark on an area that wouldn't interfere with the slide's function but not be immediately visible either. The replacement kit I received did not bear that mark so they did exchange it.

Happy as a pig in the smelly stuff, I went out to my club with a 100-round box of 40-grain CCI MiniMags, the ammo I had always used in accordance with their instructions. I shot those 100 rounds and had 74 failures to feed, failures to fire, failures to extract or failures to eject! Given that 74% failure rate, I was no longer happy. I had purchased the kit from MidwayUSA so I called them with the entire story. It was well past their return period but they offered me Midway bucks and I gladly accepted.

I then started shopping for another brand of conversion kit and bought one from Advantage Arms. They are a clone of the more costly Marvel kit and even hold the slide back on an empty magazine. It functioned perfectly on that Kimber frame. I since have purchased a used Rock Island Armory 1911 on which to keep the kit. It works flawlessly on it, too. I'm not crazy about those grips but they were the choice of my grandchildren, who are learning to shoot a handgun with it.

Terrible customer service forced me to sell the four Kimber 1911s I had and replace them with four S&Ws.

Ed

 

[Rick H.]

Lots of stories and lots of suggestions, but only a few hold any water. It's nice to want to "get to the top dog" in a situation like this, but truth is he/she will never read your letter unless your a celebrity of some sort.

Even though you are on your 5th dance with this, call Smith and Wesson and demand to talk to the supervisor of the warranty claim department. Get his/her full name for your records and it also puts them on the spot if needed later on. Get their direct telephone number so you don't have to wait if a return call is needed and see if they will give you their email address. Explain your situation to them, but keep it short and sweet. They usually don't have all day to listen to someone's problems. Find out if they really understand target shooting and shot placement including sight alignment. If they don't suggest that someone else who is familiar with these things join in on the conversation.

Be direct, but not impolite. You get more with honey than vinegar. Let them know that if this problem isn't corrected this 5th and final time you will take this matter further up the chain of command and that you have gone out of your way to correct this problem and have been more than patient doing so. Let that person know you have been on this forum looking for suggestions on how to get this problem resolved. Make sure you get the complete name of the person(s) you talk to and their contact info. The person you speak with should immediately know that bringing this matter up on this forum is not going to bode well for Smith and Wesson.

Stay positive and don't settle for talking to a warranty claims agent who knows nothing about actually using their products. Once you get approval to send the firearm back to S&W write a paper letter to them reiterating your situation and what your expectations are. Be civil, don't be a jerk. Good luck...

Rick H.

 

[26betsam]

Oh boy, I'm reading this thread and I'm thinking what did I do?
Sent my Model 41 in to S&W in mid August for a failure to extract. It's an April 1977 manufacture. I replaced the extractor and extractor spring and tried a half dozen brands of ammunition but to no avail. I bought it on Gun Broker so I suspect that the prior owner had the same issues, gave up and sold it.
So mines at S&W ( Mass) and when I inquired as to the status ( after 3 months) I was told that the Performance Center is "backed up with repair work and I'd be " a few more months". Painfully, as I'm wondering what I'm going get back. It was a beautiful pistol, other than it wouldn't run.

 

[M29since14]

Ranting about S&W CS here probably does little good, except maybe getting you some internet sympathy.

I have two fairly recent production S&Ws with the most atrocious looking barrels I have ever seen anywhere, on any type of rifled weapon. They both shoot fine, one of them remarkably so, but I wish they looked like barrels that belonged on $1000+ handguns. I thought of sending them back for evaluation when I noticed the problems but in both cases decided it wasn’t worth my trouble just to be told the product was “within specifications.”

Hope you eventually get your Model 41 straightened out.

 

[GaryS]

I think you miss the point. He doesn't have to read the letter himself, he has "people" whose job it is is to do that.

Case in point. We did business with the same Toyota dealer for 20+ years. Sales and service were always easy and efficient to deal with. In May of 2020 I decided that it was time to buy a new truck. My wife and I went down there and looked at a few Tacomas and Tundras. The salesman wasn't over enthusiastic about trying to sell anything, so we left. I fully expected a phone call from someone at the shop as I spoke with the sales manager on the way out the door.

A couple of days went by and despite calling, no one followed up.

I finally called the dealer's number directly, got voice mail and voiced my concern.

An hour later I got a call back from his Executive Assistant. She assured me that someone from sales would call me back. Right after that, the sales manager called me and apologized for the confusion. He said to come back and he'd handle the sale himself.

I neve expected to talk to the dealer himself, as that's not how those things work.

Lots of stories and lots of suggestions, but only a few hold any water. It's nice to want to "get to the top dog" in a situation like this, but truth is he/she will never read your letter unless your a celebrity of some sort.

Even though you are on your 5th dance with this, call Smith and Wesson and demand to talk to the supervisor of the warranty claim department. Get his/her full name for your records and it also puts them on the spot if needed later on. Get their direct telephone number so you don't have to wait if a return call is needed and see if they will give you their email address. Explain your situation to them, but keep it short and sweet. They usually don't have all day to listen to someone's problems. Find out if they really understand target shooting and shot placement including sight alignment. If they don't suggest that someone else who is familiar with these things join in on the conversation.

Be direct, but not impolite. You get more with honey than vinegar. Let them know that if this problem isn't corrected this 5th and final time you will take this matter further up the chain of command and that you have gone out of your way to correct this problem and have been more than patient doing so. Let that person know you have been on this forum looking for suggestions on how to get this problem resolved. Make sure you get the complete name of the person(s) you talk to and their contact info. The person you speak with should immediately know that bringing this matter up on this forum is not going to bode well for Smith and Wesson.

Stay positive and don't settle for talking to a warranty claims agent who knows nothing about actually using their products. Once you get approval to send the firearm back to S&W write a paper letter to them reiterating your situation and what your expectations are. Be civil, don't be a jerk. Good luck...

Rick H.

 

[jc2721]

How's the accuracy? Are the groups to your satisfaction? If you want to keep it, find a good bullseye pistol smith and get it fixed. Either that or dump the piece and move on.

 

[maxfam]

I purchased a new Smith & Wesson model 41 two years ago because of all the hype I’d heard about them. It can’t do anything better for me than my Browning Buck Marks. I also have Ruger Mark II’s that I shoot pretty well. But, it’s kinda cool to have a model 41and a model 17 and a model 52. I still want a Browning Medalist. They’re all just different toys. I don’t believe the model 41 is what it used to be.

 

[jimmyj]

I am happy that I can not afford new Smith and Wessons.

Many years ago when I shot "Bulleye" Matches I used Ruger MkI Bull barrels .22 autos. In those by gone days one could take a new gun out of the box and shoot a match with it with no issues.

I went "Rogue" and have been shooting Rugers. WONDERFUL & OUTSTANDING Customer Service.

 

[AJ]

I purchased a new Smith & Wesson model 41 two years ago because of all the hype I’d heard about them. It can’t do anything better for me than my Browning Buck Marks. I also have Ruger Mark II’s that I shoot pretty well. But, it’s kinda cool to have a model 41and a model 17 and a model 52. I still want a Browning Medalist. They’re all just different toys. I don’t believe the model 41 is what it used to be.

I have a Browning Medalist and it is the most accurate .22 pistol that I own. I enjoy shooting it more than any other match pistol that I have owned. Have owned pretty much all the major brands.

 

[Crew Leader]

WOW! Sucks to hear all the negative reports of S&W Service.

At this point, I have only had limited experience with service. I had them re-nickel a model 36 that was my Dad's. They sent a snail mail letter advising that the Hand and spring needed attention as well. They replaced spring and fitted a new hand in the 36 for $16.00. The re-nickel was an exemplary job as well. Happy Camper

Next I bought the wife a 6" model 617 for her birthday. At 15 yards, you couldn't even hit the 24" frame the target was mounted to. I used every click of adjustment available for left windage and it started my hitting the frame but still not printing on the target. I contacted them and they provided a shipping label. I had the 617 back in 13 days. They did not say what they did but the issue is repaired and it now prints like a 900 dollar gun should. IMO it should have never left the factory the way is was.

I am an avid Model 41 shooter. Is there anyone you know in your area that has a 41? I would suggest trying their barrel. From what you are describing, seems like is has to be a sight alignment issue with the axis of the bore. Try another barrel and you'll have more evidence before you drive over and throat punch someone. Don't let this discrepancy rain on your childhood dreams!

I recently bought an adorable model 46. Shot 5 to 6 inches high at 20 yards, but I figured the previous owner had most likely sighted it in for a 6 o'clock hold. I put it on the bench and a few clicks later it will hold a point of impact group you can cover with a dime at 25 yards. Probably better if I do my part.

Keep fighting with S&W until they resolve your concerns even if it takes a lawyer.......

 

[chief38]

I can not figure out how any competent CEO, President or Production Managers could have let this situation linger on like this for decades! Obviously the Company Heads need to roll and be replaced by people who actually know and care about making high quality firearms. They have run out of excuses and I no longer listen to them anyway.

How the Company has actually remained in business with its totally incompetent leadership is actually a phenomenon in itself!