I am considering enlisting. I am not sure which of these two would be best suited for me. I do not want a desk job. I have read a lot of hate about security forces, no respect, ****** hours, incredibly boring, ect. but I haven't written it off just yet. I'd like some feedback from you guys.

I know SF and TACP are very very different jobs. Which one has more deployments? Which would allow more home/family time? When I am not deployed which will have better day to day hours? The internet has told me deployments are 4-6 months, then 10 months back in the states, and repeat. Is that correct? With things coming to a close in the middle east do you guys think deployments will be as often as say 2-5 years ago? Or is it the same regardless? I'm going to assume in SF there is a much lesser chance of seeing combat than TACP? Will I just be standing at a gate on base all day in SF? I am a huge dog lover so the K9 handler route in security forces seems extremely appealing but hard to get into, and I can only apply for it after serving my first 4 years and then reenlisting. So I need to be able to be happy with the job those first 4 years without a K9 buddy by my side.

So I'd just like some help with those questions above and feedback from anyone who has personal experience in either of these two fields and what your thoughts and recommendations are.

__________________
M&P 15-22
1911

As a retired USAF military man, perhaps you have the wrong impression of being in the U S Military.

It seems you are looking for a "Position" and not a job or career.

It can be incredibly long hours under very difficult situations in places you do not like, did not chose to go, did not want to go and hope you never go again.

Try sleeping on the ground in a tent in 16 BELOW ZERO.

Then go to an 8 man canvas tent with 12 sleeping in it under mosquito nets to keep some of the bugs off and be sure to shake out your clothes and dump your shoes when you get up to get rid of the scorpions.

It is not all modern air conditioned two man suites on nice bases.

Most probably as a result of your testing and evaluation the military will decide what you are qualified for and what their immediate needs are. Later you may be able to seek transfer.

MY advicd....be a bit more practical about Military Service.

I never really said anything in regards to living and working conditions nor did I say I was expecting to be staying in any suites.... I am in fact looking for a job. I can't say a career yet until I experience it and decide whether or not I want stay long term. All I asked were questions comparing the two jobs which you didn't answer. I did not mean any disrespect and I am sorry if my post somehow came off that way. But thank you anyways and thank you very much for your service. Perhaps I made a mistake asking for advice on here.

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M&P 15-22
1911

Maybe I can help. I was a USAF Security Specialist and my son is a TACP/JTAC.

But first, let me be clear about something - SF is not an appropriate acronym for Security Forces. I don't care what anyone in the Air Force says, there is only on SF and that is Army Special Forces.

I was an SP back in the early '80s, when the Security Police career field was divided into two categories - Security Specialist (SP) and Law Enforcement Specialist (LE). SPs were primarily base/flightline/weapons storage area security/defense and LEs were more like city cops. Later they more or less integrated the two and changed the name to Security Forces Specialist. The job encompasses all aspects of base/site security, law enforcement, and defense. It is not particularly glamorous but it is work that must be done and the importance of the job cannot be understated. In my opinion and experience, one issue with the job is that people get into it expecting "action" and there isn't much there. It is not a job where you'll be patrolling outside the wire or kicking in doors as part of your daily routine. If you go into with the proper perspective on the duties and day to day life so you know what to expect that shouldn't be an issue. Training is not particularly difficult and the vast majority may it through school without any trouble. You work a regular 5 or 6 day week. There are some opportunities for more advanced training like sniper school but not a lot compared to TACP. I can't tell you how they handle deployments other than where there are AF assets on the ground, Security Forces will be assigned along with them.

As you stated, Security and TACP are very, very different jobs, in fact, except for both of them being USAF career fields, they have absolutely nothing in common. TACP is a front line, ground combat job, almost all of them are assigned to ASOSs that are integrated into Army bases. If you choose TACP and make it through the school, you will be deployed, you will see combat and you will be accompanying the Army. The training is very difficult, with an attrition rate of around 50%. You have to be smart and in very good condition. In addition to the physical/combat training you will learn computers, radios (lots of radios), navigation, air assets and their capabilities, and how to control them, putting them to use to support ground troops with close air support (CAS). Guys that don't make it most often end up in Security Forces. If you do make it through you will be an apprentice to a JTAC (Joint Terminal Attack Controller) for at least one to two years before becoming a JTAC yourself. The JTAC and apprentice make up a Tactical Air Control Party (TACP). You will have a lot of opportunity for advanced training as you will have to be trained to the capabilities of the Army units you are supporting.

As I said, my son is a TACP/JTAC, he is a SSgt and has been in six and a half years. He has been on three deployments to Afghanistan ranging in length from 7 months to just over a year. He goes TDY on training assignments regularly because it is easier to send men to where the assets are than the other way around. When nothing else is going on he works a regular 5 day work week.

So, there's a little bit of info on both jobs. Some of the big things I would be considering before choosing are these -
Security - You are assigned to AF bases guarding/protecting AF assets and doing on base law enforcement. AF bases are all nicer/better than Army bases.
TACP - You are assigned to Army bases and deploy with the Army. Except for training, my son has spent all of his time on an Army base.

Security - Good chance of serving overseas, less chance of deployment to a combat zone. Little chance of seeing actual combat unless your base/site is attacked. No war - you'll be working on a base.
TACP - You will be deployed to combat zones, you will work outside the wire with the Army. You will be controlling air assets and using them to provide CAS. Chances are almost 100% that you will kill people, either using those assets or in direct combat. No war - they'll find you one.

Security - Some opportunities for cool schools, though not a lot.
TACP - Lots of opportunity for cool schools, including all of those offered by all of the other branches. Also, TACP now has a special operations component, if you try out and qualify you'll deploy with Rangers, Delta, Seals, etc after training.

Bottom line -
Security Forces is great job. It's important and necessary, it's a military cop job that extends into ground defense. You could qualify for K9, which sounds important to you. It is a great stepping stone to civilian law enforcement. Downsides -not a lot of action and you are one of a whole lot of other people doing the same job. Probably a better job if you are very concerned about a career that is predictable.

TACP is a great job, tough as hell but worth it if that is what you want to do. It is more dangerous, you will go to war, you'll be there to provide close air support and to help the ground commanders integrate air assets into the battlefield scenario. They will make you a BAMF and you will know and do things that only a handful of others do - there are only about 700 TACPs in the entire AF - in fact, most AF folks don't know what a TACP is or what they do. Downsides - deployments, combat, Army bases.

I hope this is helpful to you. There is a ton more that could be said about both jobs but this should give you an idea of some of the differences. I wish you well with whatever choice you make.

__________________
Don't kiss smiling dogs!

These days you are most often guaranteed a shot at the job you choose assuming you qualify for it based on AVAB scores and (sometimes) physical condition. If you can't make it through the training then they'll put you where they need you but it isn't like you're going in hoping for the best unless you choose to di it that way.
All the rest of your post goes with out saying, though, with most AF jobs (not necessarily Security or TACP) chances are good that you're not going to suffer the conditions that your average Army grunt or Marine has to early in their career.

__________________
Don't kiss smiling dogs!

I don't think anybody on active duty is going for less than six months except aircrew, and that's so they can meet currency/proficiency requirements. I think cops were 6 months on/6 months off for quite a while during the recent unpleasantness. When you add in turnover time, it comes out to more like 6.5 on/5.5 off. Keep in mind that the AF has been deployed in some form or fashion continuously since at least Desert Shield/Desert Storm. They need cops to guard the planes and the bases.

No disrespect to any sky cops, but there are a lot of folks who end up in the career field that didn't wake up and say, "I really, really want to be a cop." Therefore, if you are one of those people, you have a significant advantage (by being and STAYING motivated) over the guy who joined the AF just to do "a job."

JTAC is a serious job. That's not to say that other jobs aren't serious, but you hold a lot of people's lives in your hands when it comes down to it. Everybody there will be the elite. They will be hungry. It will be harder, but not impossible, to stand out in this group.

Disclaimers: I am not now, nor have I ever been an AF cop or a JTAC. This opinion is worth every penny you paid for it.

Best of luck, and remember that a recruiter's words do not matter. What matters is what's on the paper you sign.

__________________
Where's my dad's America?

about 44 years ago I was a TACP team member and later a team chief as a Sgt. we were all radio operators at the time. the modern TACP evolved over the years and is now a designated career field. now they get to jump out of perfectly good airplanes and learn all kinds of neat stuff I wish we had learned before being put out in bush with the infantry or air cav or marines. good luck with your choice. lee

I can't add much to WC145's posts, except to say that I was an enlisted Weapon System Security Specialist from 1980 to 82. I went to OTS in 1982, Undergraduate Navigator Training in 1983, and had a flying career to 1999 when I became the commander of a TACP unit. I served as the squadron commander for six years and had more deployments in that six years than I think I did in the rest of my Air Force career. I served with Special Ops in Europe (SOCEUR) during OEF and a year on the ground with the Army's 1st Cavalry Division in Iraq. If you want to serve in combat, but still have the connection with the Air Force, TACP or Special Tactics (CCT) is the way to go. If you want to be in combat and stay exclusively with the Air Force, Combat Rescue (PJ) is an option. All three, TACP, CCT, and PJ are physically tough, demanding jobs, and for the most part, you're in austere locations and frequently under fire. AF Security Forces is almost always on an air base, and there are the creature comforts generally recognized as necessary by the Air Force, such as hot showers, laundry, prepared meals, etc. Really austere bases don't have internet or a gym, but luckily that doesn't last long as the contractors come along and build them pretty fast. One last comment, there's not much of a job market in the civilian world for TACPs, but CCTs do receive training as Air Traffic Controllers, PJs receive training as paramedics, and of course, Security Forces are trained as cops, so one of those jobs may be more appropriate for post-military employment, if you can qualify.

I had to go to captains mast (USN) one time and for punishment they put me in a shore patrol unit and gave me a gun and a nightstick. I stood mid watches for 4 months. I think it's changed since I was in, at least I hope it has. I'm thinking any type of security unit would be the last place I would want to be. Get into some tech field that has a civilian demand like construction or engineering. Gov't is cutting their budgets and cop jobs are being axed.

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That's just somebody talkin.

I was in the AF Security Forces although not as a cop. I was a Combat Arms Training & Maintenance (CATM) specialist. We conducted all the small arms training and maintenance on a variety of weapons for all AF personnel, not just the cops...basically if you had a need to be qualified with a weapon, you came to see us. I served from 1983 to 2003. At first, we were a seperate career field, but we got assimilated into the cops in about 1997. After that, you had to become a cop first before you could go to CATM school and transfer to the firing range to work. Although I enjoyed my job as an instructor, I despised being assigned to the cops and would not recommend it to anyone. The most repeated description of how the senior management treats enlisted cops is "We always eat our young." I heard it said a thousand times. And then there's the old cop joke that still rings true and provides a fitting picture of most AF cops I encountered. "A AF cop was locked in a room alone with three bowling balls. After about an hour, he was released. One bowling ball was found broken, one was missing, and the third was pregnant. The cop didn't know anything." There are much better career fields you could go into in the Air Force.

Thanks all of you guys. Especially WC145 thank you for taking the time to write all of that and my bad for calling it SF, now I know not to do that. I'm a little conflicted because the risk of TACP is appealing to me because I've always been into dangerous, adrenaline filled hobbies (though not on the level of war obviously), but then I consider family, friends, and my girlfriend here at home. So I'll have to think hard on that and make what I feel is the right choice. But based on what you guys have said I definitely feel like TACP is the way to go. Either way I am starting to really want to serve in one way or another.

I've also considered AF Firefighter which I've read is the "best job in the Air Force". After reading about that more I think I prefer that more over Security Forces if I don't go TACP.

WC145 what was family life (if you had a wife or girlfriend at the time) like for you? What is it like for your son?

__________________
M&P 15-22
1911

My son was SF for two years when he was discharged from the AF for having a beer off base at a friends party 2 months before his 21st birthday. Accompanying that was a refusal to inform who else may have been at the party. All who were, were off duty. My Brother who recently retired from the AF says "Security Forces eat their young".
If it appeals to you go for it but go in with all the information you can find.

__________________
Front sight and squeeze

Think ahead. What will you do when you get out of the military?

Serve your country and serve well. But remember, your country can work for you too. Such as the GI Bill, Community College of the Air Force and more.

__________________
Life Is A Gift. Defend it!

I didn't post because my USAF cop job was back in the 1960's. But I was surprised to see how much hasn't changed, in some regards.

I wouldn't say that my bosses ate me, but I felt always concerned that a mouth was close. And I saw very little to inspire me or make me want to make the AF a career. I served with some nice guys, but some of the career NCOs were deadwood and jerks. Our officers were, if possible, worse. At one base, the more active, aggressive officer was a total (bleep!) and the other was a naïve guy who couldn't find himself, let alone a crook.

Most posts were very boring and they wouldn't let you bring a book, although some sneaked them in. But the need for real security was there, and you knew that you were protecting vital assets. (Air Intelligence School, Nuclear Weapons School, combat alert aircraft, etc.) And there were the usual cop jobs including some confrontations in family housing units and guarding the banks and BXs on paydays. Base patrol and writing traffic tickets and investigating accidents, etc. I also worked as access controller at a remote air base tasked with detecting Soviet aircraft trying to enter Canadian airspace. There were just a few of us cops. If the base had been attacked by submarine-borne Spetznaz troops, my security augmentees were mostly inept and barely qualified to safely handle their M-1 carbines. Most didn't care.

But I'm pretty proud of the way our men stopped an enemy attack at Ton Son Nhut Air Base in Saigon during the Tet offensive of 1968. I heard from guys who'd been in Vietnam that the Viet Cong would pay big bucks to anyone who'd kill or capture a USAF cop. That probably especially applied to our dog handlers. I suspect this was true. They kept those bases and their vital aircraft safe from infiltrators who'd like to have reached the flight lines.

I was surprised to read here about the severe treatment of the men who were suspected of underage drinking at an off base party. I saw underage drinking even in the barracks. I think they carded drinkers in the AF base clubs, but I never saw any real efforts to apprehend any airman who was drunk for being underage. Maybe for public intoxication or DWI, but not just for drinking. And our patrols often drove a drunk young airman back to his barracks and told him to sleep it off when we could have jailed him.

Overall, I think the members posting here have given remarkably good advice. And it is much more current than I knew about. I hope it helps the OP to make a career choice.

Personally, I think I'd get a job as a a civilian cop, not military. But if you serve in the military, you do get some veterans' benefits that I've found very useful. These will vary with when you served, but they surely still have some.

Good luck. It's not a high paying job, but I can assure you, it pays a LOT better than when I was in and they still had conscription for most young males.

BTW, my son was Army and has three wounds to show for it. I hope his time in Iraq did more good than history may show that it did. But he has some adventures to remember and got to kill a lot of people, legally. If that appeals to you, the military is the only game in town. (Not being flip. He was always at grave risk and doing his duty with the enemy trying to kill him, too. I admire our troops, who usually make the nation proud of them, regardless of the branch of service.)

HA! When I was in family life was not an issue. I went in at 19 and was stationed at Nellis AFB, just outside of Las Vegas. I drank and partied and knew lots of girls but none were steady or serious. I don't recall anybody getting in trouble over drinking, regardless of age, unless you did something stupid like DUI. I lived in the barracks for a while but my roommate and I applied to live off base and got permission. We shared an apartment and with our quarters allowance we did okay, even made a little extra as I recall. We partied our asses off when we weren't working, as one might expect of guys in their late teens/early 20's living in Vegas.

It's been different for my son because the Army bases don't have permanent quarters for AF personnel. He only had a temporary barracks room for a few weeks when first got to his duty station to allow him time to transition in and find a place to live. Because there are no housing facilities for AF he automatically qualifies for quarters allowance (extra money you are paid to cover the cost of housing) and he shared a house with some other guys from his unit. By his second deployment he had found a girlfriend, by his third they were living together, and they got married last November after he returned from A-stan in September. She understands what his job is and the dangers involved, it is something they have discussed at length. The time apart is much different than when I was in, back then we only had pay phones and letters. Nowadays with email, Skype, instant messaging, cell & sat phones, etc people are able to stay in touch like never before. During his last deployment they spoke on Skype regularly.


It's important to understand that with any job in the military you will go where you are needed most, chances are that, unless you go Guard or Reserves, you won't be stationed near your home. On top of that, in a job like TACP, where you have combat deployments, it adds another level of stress to a relationship. Like I said before the vast majority of TACPs are stationed on Army bases but not all Army bases have TACP units so the number of places you could be assign as a duty station are limitied but spread far and wide. In addition, you have lots of training TDYs, my son is gone from home anywhere from a few days to several weeks several times a year for training. All of these things (and more) and how they will affect the people close to you must be taken into consideration when choosing a career field.


TACP is a great job for a smart, physical, adventurous young man but it is very hard to get through the training. As I mentioned in my earlier post the attrition rate is around 50%. The training is as cerebral as it is physical - you train like an infantryman while learning all about the air assets and munitions available to you along with the radios, computers, etc that you will use to communicate with nad control the aircraft and coordinate targets. Everything that you learn to do electronically you will learn to do on paper mathematically and by sight as a redundancy because you can't trust that your equipment will always work 100% of the time. If you manage to get through the school house your training will continue at your duty station because you immediately start working to be functional in the field as an apprentice and building toward becoming a JTAC all while maintaining your physical skills and conditioning.

As difficult as it is, once you are trained up to a functional level and have some experience under your belt things get easier. My son leads a pretty normal life when not deployed, he works M-F, they have a house and dogs and he just bought a new Harley. The money is good and he is doing well for himself for being just 25. But like other men in direct combat jobs he has seen and done things that your average Joe can't relate to. That can be an issue, like in social settings with people his wife works with or other people that are not military, it's not always easy to find common ground. All of his friends are other TACPs, his best man and groomsmen were guys he served overseas with. The things they've experienced together and the uniqueness of the job and training and that there is so few of them make the TACP community very close knit. The fact that they are AF but are seldom involved with the AF can make it difficult when he has to deal with other AF personnel or go to AF bases. However, for him, the rewards are greater than all of that and he really enjoys what he does. He likes not being part of the AF establishment and being kind of an outsider, neither Army nor AF, but some of both. Again, that is a part of the job you must contend with, not everyone is comfortable with that.

If you get yourself the book "Danger Close: Tactical Air Controllers in Iraq and Afghanistan" it can give you a lot of insight about the job and how these guys work. Also, check out the ROMAD Locator (The ROMAD Locator), it is a site that is by TACPs for TACPs and they have a forum, you can get lots of questions answered there as well.

I don't know anything about being an AF fire fighter, can't help you there other than to say that, as far as my son is concerned, TACP is the "best job in the Air Force". If he couldn't do that, he'd get out.

__________________
Don't kiss smiling dogs!

Good luck in what ever you pick.

I was Army Infantry and was assigned to three TACP guys in Germany for awhile. We were the advance party for the Tactical Operations Center for the battalion. I tried joining the AF to become a TACP when I got out of the Army, but no dice. They weren't taking prior service people at the time.

I really enjoyed my time the TACP team though, that's for sure.

If you're still interested in firefighter, let me know. I may know one or two.

__________________
Where's my dad's America?

Thank you again WC145 and the rest of your for your very helpful responses. I came across this thread Air Force TACP FAQ - LS1TECH made by a former TACP member and it has a ton of great information. The initial PAST requirements he mentions are not hard. The 2nd list of physical requirements is more challenging and that is what I will be striving for. The mental aspect worries me more and it is harder to prepare for that, but I'm confident I can hack it. In the TACP section on the Air Force website for degree earned it says Information Systems Technology. A quick search showed me the average salary for jobs in that field is 70k. Pretty dang good in my opinion. Thanks again for all your help guys. I will be going to speak to a recruiter next week.

__________________
M&P 15-22
1911

You'll have to meet the PAST as well as ASVAB requirements to qualify for TACP school-
The recruiter will administer the PAST. Don't be surprised if they don't know much about the job, and be persistent if it is what you want. Don't let them steer you towards something else.

Also, if this works out for you and is a good fit you should consider staying in and doing 20. The benefits are excellent and the money is much better than it used to be. As an E5 with 6 years in my son's base salary is $32,814. Add housing allowance, extra for being married, jump pay, TDY pay, etc and he's doing very well for his age, around $50K. They also get combat/hazardous duty pay when deployed and do not pay federal income taxes on earnings while deployed. In addition, since TACP is a critically manned career field, they offer an enlistment bonus of $3k if you sign up for 4 years and $15k if you sign up for 6 years. Of course, you have to make it through TACP school to get it. The reenlistment bonuses can be substantial as well. When he reenlisted last year he got a $90k reenlistment bonus, half up front and the rest in annual payments spread over the duration of your enlistment term.

Remember that for serving 20 years you come away with a lifetime pension and health benefits that include your spouse. My father retired fro the Coast Guard in 1976, he has been collecting his pension ever since. My mother was diagnose with brain cancer last year, she had two surgeries plus chemo and radiation, meds, hospital stays, etc, etc, and between Dad's insurance and Medicare they paid almost nothing out of pocket. There are very few jobs that still offer that kind of security these days for a relatively short 20 year commitment.

Good luck to you. Let us know how things work out.

__________________
Don't kiss smiling dogs!

Where did you find those physical requirements? Very different than the ones in that link I guess they've changed in the last few years. As far as staying 20 years, say I did TACP for 4-6 years (at which point I'd be 24-26), decided I wanted to stay in the Air Force, but at that point I want to have a kid, spend more time home, ect, and as a result wanted a safer job would it be possible to cross-train or reenlist in a different job? If so that sounds like a pretty decent plan to me.

__________________
M&P 15-22
1911

Those are the current requirements.
TACP PAST (Standard and SOF) | ShadowSpear Special Operations
Also, if you follow the links from romad.com they can be found on the specialtactics.com forum.

If you go TACP for 4-6 years you will have only been operational as a JTAC for less than half that time, chances are they won't let you cross train into something else because they have so much time and money invested to get you to that point and TACP is critically manned. Also, I personally can't imagine going from TACP into some regular AF gig. IMO, that would be a major step backwards. Remember that the majority of the AF is there to support the mission, the mission being flying planes, the prevailing attitude being that if you ain't a pilot, you ain't sh**. There is one AF job that doesn't fall into that category and that is TACP - they exist to put bombs on target, using air assets to pave the way for ground forces to advance. Mighty hard to go from that to being another face in the crowd in supply, truck driving, security, cook, mechanic, whatever.

However, if that is what you wanted to do it may be possible, if not after your first tour probably after a second. Also, if you excel at what you do you could maybe get a position as an instructor at the TACP schoolhouse. Talk to your recruiter, I'm sure he can give you more info on cross training.

__________________
Don't kiss smiling dogs!

We lost a couple of the best guys in my squadron to Recruiting, because it's really hard for non-TACP guys to recruit new TACP candidates.

Pension yes, health benefits - maybe. A former military member can get medical treatment through the VA, but not the spouse. If you PURCHASE Tricare health insurance, then you can get health benefits that will include your spouse and family. It's not free - hasn't been free for a long time. They told us it would be free for life when I first enlisted - but they lied.

Recruiters will tell you anything to get you to sigh up. Read the fine print where it says there are no guarantees. I signed up for an aircraft maintenance school after basic and I got nada. Health benefits are questionable at best. Who knows what it will be in 20 years. I'm a 67-71 vet and and I'm having a hard time getting ANY benefits. I applied 2 years ago and I'm still waiting. I'm not saying I won't get them but a vet shouldn't have to wait 2 years. The VA seems to run hot and cold when it comes to taking care of those who served. Right now they are running pretty cold for me.

Bottom line is there are a hundred guys at any given time trying to get the same training that you want. They pick and choose and high grade the crop. The recruiter will tell you that it's guaranteed but that's been proven to be false a million times.

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That's just somebody talkin.

No way am I taking any **** from the recruiter. I WILL get something guaranteed in writing like everyone says to before I sign away 4 or 6 years of my life. Beyond that it's up to me to be prepared, work hard, and kick *** at TACP training.

I've been reading and hearing a lot the past couple weeks about issues with the VA and vets not getting their benefits and treatments and it's sad and upsetting. Hopefully that gets fixed soon.

This is a bit off topic but since I'm on a gun forum I may as well ask, does anyone know what firearms they are issuing? When you are issued a firearm in the military does it have to stay on base, or can you take it home with you when you're not deployed? Say I want to go shooting with a friend, sibling, girlfriend, whoever, would I be allowed to go to the range with my handgun and/or rifle that was issued to me by the AF?

__________________
M&P 15-22
1911

Don't go into the recruiters office with any attitude, just be aware that not all of them are well versed when it comes to TACP so they may try to direct you into something that needs filling, like Security. If that is the case, be persistent, but respectful, and don't be a dick. If you don't like the recruiter there are other recruiting offices out there.

Also, you should be aware that enlisting will be a process - paperwork, MEPS, a physical, the ASVAB if you haven't taken it, the PAST test, your contract guaranteeing you a slot at the schoolhouse (assuming you get through basic). Then there will be a wait, anywhere from a few months to a year, depending on the time of year, BMTS training flight schedules, schoolhouse training flight schedules, SERE school schedules, etc., because your own little training pipeline has to be arranged/coordinated. Take this time to work on your conditioning - running, sit ups, push ups, pull ups - the better shape you are in the easier all of it will be.

Gunblade is correct about Tricare, my father has it, as far as he is concerned it is well worth whatever the cost is. He does not use the VA so he hasn't been affected by the things going on there. He has never had any issues with civilian doctors, hospitals, pharmacies, being paid and gets the same care as anyone else would.

The gun thing always comes up in these conversation, whether the discussion is military or police. Your standard issue weapons will be an M4 carbine and a Beretta M9 pistol. They are not yours to keep and you cannot check them out for plinking sessions with your buddies. You get them when you need them for training or deployments. You may be able to get extra range time depending on where you are, how the range is manned, etc. But there is no taking them home or anything like that.

__________________
Don't kiss smiling dogs!

Thanks for a very helpful response again. That came off like I have an attitude but I of course will remain respectful to the recruiter. I just will not be swayed into another job and I will just be clear that TACP and only TACP is what I want.

So from the time I go to the recruiter and say I am going to enlist, it could be up a year before I leave for BMT?

Thank you for the clarification about the weapons. I was just curious.

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M&P 15-22
1911

In 1967 I entered the Air Force Security Service. I think this is different that the one you was talking about but I found it to very interesting work. I'm not sure what is is called today but this was my entry into the "Black Air Force" in which I spent the rest of my career working. Did lots of things which are still classified and probably will be for many more years. Worked hand in hand with other Intelligence Agencies such as DIA and CIA. You got to see the entire picture of things, not just what was reported in the media.

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Bill

Having retired after 21 years service in the USAF as a Law Enforcement Supervisror (now integrated into Security Forces career field) I think WC145 has nailed it. Some of the other veterans have provided you with some good insight, Think of what you want to do in life and get the experience in the Armed Forces. I went in the AF wanting to get 4 years police experience, then get out a become a LEO. I ended up staying 21 years active duty, retired, and then became a LEO. Your life priorities will certainly change with added maturity. Just my two cents worth.

Would any special kind ofLEO opportunities would be available to me after the AF if I did Security Forces? I do not want to be a regular street cop for any period of time. If I could go straight from AF Security Forces into SVU, SWAT, Detective, K9 cop, or some other more advanced job over a regular officer that sounds more appealing but I have a feeling it doesn't work that way.

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M&P 15-22
1911

Knowing what you want and being well informed going into this will serve you well. Just remember that the recruiters are doing their jobs and have slots to fill, it's nothing personal. They will guide people that aren't sure of what they want to do where they need them the most.

Yes, you might have to wait up to a year to go but it will probably be closer to 6 months. They may ask you if you want to go sooner or later, if you are in shape for it, I'd want to go ASAP and get started. Something to keep in mind is that San Antonio is hotter in the summer than it is cold in the winter. I don't know where you live or what kind of weather you're accustomed to but I went through basic in the summer and it was miserable hot and humid.

Also, be sure to have them clarify the differences in what you get for a 6 year enlistment vs 4 year. My son did 6 and got a $10K enlistment bonus and E3 (airman first class) upon graduation from TACP school. It looks like the bonus is up to $15K and that bump in rank was instrumental in him making E5 in 4 years.

Like I said, the weapons thing always comes up in these discussions. In fact, before you ask - No, you can't take personal weapons with you on deployments.

It sounds like BigBoy99 was in OSI (Office of Special Investigations) which is absolutely nothing like Security Forces.

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Don't kiss smiling dogs!

It would depend on what you did as a cop in the AF. K9 probably. If you were on an Emergency Services Team (EST) it might help you get on a SWAT team, depends on the Dept and wht they need. If you get an education while you're in, like a bachelors, you might look at going from AF to FBI, CIA, NSA, Marshals Service, etc., but they won't talk to you without a degree. All of the time you have in the AF would apply towards your retirement in a federal job, might or might not in a state or local agency.

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Don't kiss smiling dogs!

EST sounds interesting, I'm not finding much about difficulty and the selection process but I'll keep looking into it.

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M&P 15-22
1911

EST is something you would get involved in once you were at your duty station and had gotten through wall of your training stuff there and reached at least your 5 level, it would probably take at least a couple of years before you'd be eligible. That kind of assignment would be a local thing, it is not a separate job title/field, same as being a cop in a Dept but also being on their SWAT or tactical team.

ETA: By the way, try not to let EST sway you too much, they dangled that carrot in front of me back in '81 to get me to sign up for Security Specialist. I never got close to being involved with it and I can only think of one time they were used at my base the whole time I was in.

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Don't kiss smiling dogs!

Oh ok that doesn't sound so great anymore lol. I'm a huge dog lover like I've said and that's the only thing that really makes Security Forces appealing to me and I've read it's difficult to get into. If it weren't for the supposedly terrible hours, and complete lack of respect that I keep reading goes hand in hand with being Security Forces I'd probably go in and work hard hoping to become a K9 handler. But as things are I'm still feeling very strongly about going TACP.

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M&P 15-22
1911

I was an AF Munitions Officer for 23 years. Munitions is of necessity joined at the hip with security. I personally would not have liked security. But you might. And security is usually translatable into a decent security/police job in the civilian world. TACP, like much of munitions, doesn't have much going for it on civvy street unless you have advanced degrees and really specialized training.

You've received a lot of exceptionally good advice here.

If you are not already in really, really fantastic shape, tough as nails, forget the TACP. You'll be miserable. You'll need to focus on a very complex and demanding job without being sidetracked by falling behind in the physical areas.

I would encourage you to keep your options open. TACP is not the only good career field in the AF. You have yet to pass the physical exam, the PT requirements, the background checks and you haven't taken the ASVAB. So you really don't have a clear idea of what you are actually qualified and suited for.

Get into the process, make your desires known, but keep an open mind.

Best wishes.

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USAF, 69-92
Vietnam, 72-73

EST, at least at every base I was stationed at, was a joke. They were for show & tell so the base commander can be made to feel good about security at his base. I used to refer to them as the chimney sweeps because of their black fatigues. Never saw them actually do anything except run around acting "tactical" while hiding in plain sight. In reality, the local civilian police dept or state troopers would likely be called on to provide swat type intervention if it was needed on most AF bases. And more and more, the policing of the base is being contracted out to private security companies...manning the gates, checking IDs, issuing traffic citations, etc.

The entry and graduation physical requirements really don't seem like they'd require me to be in really really fantastic shape, but perhaps we have differing opinions on what fantastic shape is. But I'm confident I can meet and exceed the graduation requirements with just a couple months at most of hard, dedicated training prior to leaving for BMT. I'm more worried about the mental aspect during training. With the required ASVAB score being 49 I can't see that stopping me. I've never taken it but if high school freshman and sophmores can score above 60 I must be pretty dumb if I don't score a 49. The Information Technology degree I can earn with TACP gives me many job options and with the average salary for jobs in this field being 70k, I feel pretty good about being able to make a comfortable living after serving. Besides TACP and the K9 part of Security Forces, nothing else really appeals to me.

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M&P 15-22
1911

I was in the Security Police from 1983 to 1991, departing as an E-5. From the start all didn't go as I had planned it, but it all worked out. Forced to re enlist early in my first enlistment. And then my second enlistment was extended for the first Gulf war, I ended up doing 8 years instead of the 4 I planned on. And Security Police was definitely more security than police, contrary to my recruiters best assurances.....

Had 2 sons paid for by the military and met some strange and interesting people. Got to see and do some things that I never would dreamed of prior to my enlistment. Most important I was introduced to the S&W Model 15 revolver, fueling my taste for "The Brand". Also Airmen get treated much better than members of the other military branches.....Well maybe not Seamen.

No matter what you choose, your life experiences in the military will benefit you more than what specialty you decide on. Good luck on whatever you decide to do!

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Tom
"Panem et Circenses"

Thank you for your response. If I somehow end up in Security Forces I guess it won't be the end of the world. Responses like yours make me second guess the negative stuff I've read. But I am going for TACP and am pretty dang determined.

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M&P 15-22
1911

You do need to note that at some bases, you may not be allowed even personal weapons on base, particularly in barracks. They have to be stored in the orderly room or an armory and just checked out when you're off duty and want to go hunting, etc. IF you can find whoever has the key to the gun locker.

It wouldn't amaze me if some some commanders don't even allow personal guns to be owned. The modern military seems rather weapons-phobic.

Someone seems to have said that you will need to pass a SERE course. That probably has a "sickener" factor of deliberate mistreatment, so you have to be able to handle that. You would also be learning escape and evasion techniques. Those served Capt. Scott O'Grady well when his F-16 was shot down over Bosnia, if you recall that case. I recommend his book, "Return With Honor."

Good luck. You have a tough, serious decision ahead of you.

If it was me, I'd skip the military today and join a police force and apply when possible to join their K-9 unit or become a detective. I don't like dogs and would want to be a detective, so your goals may differ. You would need to put in several years of street duty to be promoted to detective. Coming in from a prior military background almost surely will not get you advanced placement on a police force, unless maybe you were an Army CID or AF OSI agent. One of the early FBI profilers was hired away from CID to join the FBI. But he was an officer and an agent. BTW, he said in a book that he found Army CID training and lab facilities in some areas to be well advanced over what FBI had.

Keep in mind that you'll need a very special wife to tolerate either police work or military deployments and schedules.

And keep thinking how many here told you, Security Forces Eat Their Young. That's an additional risk that you may want to avoid.

Oh: I think CID and OSI agents are issued personal handguns which they retain in quarters. But I could easily be wrong. Most are warrant officers. Some have full commissions. NAVY NCIS agents are civilians. They probably do retain pistols at home. You will not be eligible to become an OSI agent on a first enlistment or without a degree, I think. The recruiter lied to me. They really wanted a degree in law, accounting, or foreign service. If you have a degree and want that sort of job, the FBI might be the better choice.

Do you even have the requisite college hours to become a cop where you live?

I think it's reprehensible that many bases are hiring private security or police in lieu of military police. That, of course, reduces the number of openings for USAF cops.

If you do wind up in Security, keep your sense of self preservation keen and do your job well and you'll probably cope. But it hurts knowing that your career field gets fewer promotions than many and that a bandsman/musician gets much more money and rank for playing a danged tuba than you do for being out in the frigid cold or humid August and going sometimes in harm's way!

"The entry and graduation physical requirements really don't seem like they'd require me to be in really really fantastic shape, but perhaps we have differing opinions on what fantastic shape is."

I wasn't referring to the entry & graduation requirements. That's the easy part. Any reasonably fit young man should be able to knock that out of the park. The hard part is surviving the day to day physical demands with enough gas left in your tank to deal with the actual course work, which is complex and demanding. Are you already running several miles a day? Are you working out in the gym most days?

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USAF, 69-92
Vietnam, 72-73

Like I said early on, nothing wrong with Security if that is what you want and you know what you're getting into up front. You're a cop and a soldier policing and securing a populace that is mostly young guys with attitude, of course you get a lot of **** from everyone that isn't a cop. I never experienced the internal strife that has been brought up here, not to say it doesn't happen, just never happened to me.

Should you choose to go with Security, you can always try to cross train into TACP later if you want. The majority of cross trainees are cops.


Moxie is right. The entry and graduation physical requirements are the minimums you need to get through, if you think that the minimum is going to be good enough to get through the schoolhouse you are sorely mistaken. Unless that is absolutely the best you can do the instructors will work you until you fail if they think you're just trying to get by, they are all combat experienced TACPs themselves, they understand what is at stake and will not graduate someone they don't believe is putting in 100+%. If you want to succeed you have to go into this with the attitude that you are going to be the best they've ever seen, the guy that will be setting PT records and acing the academics. Also, the things you're reading about the requirements don't mention 12 miles ruck marches with 80lb packs that must be finished in under 4 hours, or "Field" which is the TACP version of Hell Week, which you go through about halfway through the course, or getting "smoked" when they just beat you down physically with push ups, pull ups, four count body builders, miles and miles of running, etc.

Again, like I said early on, TACP has a roughly 50% attrition rate - that's an average of half of the candidates not making it through an 85 day school. CCT and PJ have a 40-50% attrition rate, that's a little more than half the candidates not making it through a 2 YEAR school. TACP school is going to be harder than anything you've done, if they were losing half of the CCT and PJ candidates in the first 3 months of the pipeline they'd be graduating less than 5%. Combine the physical challenge with the academic requirements and you have what is probably the hardest 85 days of training in the Air Force. Don't underestimate the difficulty. If you get in, this will most likely be the hardest thing you've ever done, by far.


Personal weapons must be stored in the armory if you live in the barracks, don't know what the current rules are on base housing. Of course, if you make it as a TACP, once you get to your duty station you'll probably be living off base, the Army bases don't usually have on base housing for AF personnel.

SERE is a whole nother challenge on it's own. I can say that a lot more people make it through SERE than TACP school. I wouldn't worry about it yet.


One other thing, before making this decision, you need to look beyond school, PT, SERE, etc and think about what the actual job consists of and be sure that it's for you. Your responsibilities will be to see that CAS is provided to protect and clear the way for ground troops, guys that you will very likely be on the battlefield with, fighting side by side. You will consult with battlefield commanders on how best to use the air assets at your disposal to their advantage to achieve their goals on the ground. You have to know everything about the assets and munitions available to you and how they perform because the lives of your fellow personnel, as well as innocents in the area, depend on your decisions and performance. And, if you're working outside the wire you will also have the additional responsibility of being part of a fire team and be expected to perform accordingly, which means fighting right alongside the other guys when not controlling. You may even need to control artillery or Naval assets if that is all you have available to you. You could be doing all of this - talking on the radio, sorting assets, lining up what you need to hit when and where, giving coordinates or descriptions of the battlefield to assure that bombs land where you need them, then finally giving the "cleared hot" command for the pilots to drop - while bullets are flying around you. You've seen in the news what happens when we blow up the wrong thing or kill the wrong people. This is a huge responsibility, be sure that you're willing to take it on before you sign the papers and raise your right hand. Read the book "Danger Close", it will give you a lot of insight into the job, not just the training like we're mostly talking about here, it'll help you make your decision.

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Don't kiss smiling dogs!

SW01SS - If you haven't already check the TACP Wiki page, it's a pretty good synopsis - United States Air Force Tactical Air Control Party - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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Don't kiss smiling dogs!

Thank you again. I'm aware the physical and mental strain will be very hard. I'm just trying to remain determined and positive. I will be as prepared as possible. Honestly everything you said about the job sounds awesome. It also sounds dangerous and very delicate, if thats a suitable word for it but still sounds awesome. I work well under that kind of pressure and it sounds like a very suitable job for me. I will be starting that book tonight.

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M&P 15-22
1911

I retired after 20 years from the Army Military Police, so my thoughts will be a bit different than the air force guys above. I was also an army recruiter.

Think about why you want to join (and I feel everyone should serve their country). The why is important because it can shape how you look at things. Are you trying to get training, are you trying to get college money for later?
Are there thoughts of a career?

I will say that everything depends on where you end up and who you serve with. It could be Hawaii and you might hate it because of ****** work mates - or you could love it and still have ****** work mates. Attitude is everything.

On several occasions, you mentioned family - in the big scheme of things, family is secondary to the military. Again, depends on your leaders, good NCO's and Officers know that a happy soldier/airman will be a better airman/soldier. So, you could end up in a great place or not. But your own attitude creates a lot of your life.
In my experience, air force has a bit harder getting their exact job, rank takes longer and they are tougher on folks for minor infractions. That said, they also have a 'all other services are grunts and have it bad' attitude Everything is perception.

I am a bit puzzled by the comments about Tricare - basic tricare (after retirement) is free, you have to pay co-pays, but that is normal. I have tri-care prime, which just makes it easier to go to the doctor of my choice and a few other things. But that is far, far down the road for you, as active duty, you and spouse are covered.

Here's some good info from the web:

Air Force TACP FAQ - LS1TECH

TACP Questions | ShadowSpear Special Operations

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USAF, 69-92
Vietnam, 72-73

Oh, this is really excellent! Hit the link!

This incident serves as an example of how important the tactical air control skill set and the individual's ability to employ air assets appropriately and efficiently are, and emphasizes the weight of responsibility that goes with it. Perhaps if they had an American TACP with this team this tragedy wouldn't have occurred.

Tragedy in Afghanistan: Five U.S. Soldiers Killed in Friendly Fire Incident | TheBlaze.com

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Don't kiss smiling dogs!

Armory, yes. Orderly room, not to my knowledge.

USAF doesn't have Warrant Officers any more. Otherwise, great advice.

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Where's my dad's America?