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Rifle without a serial number, is that legal?

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I know a guy who told me he bought an AK-47 from a private party. Said he paid $800. Proudly said it had no serial number. Apparently the guy he bought it from put it together himself. Is that legal? I know an obliterated number is illegal, but what about one somebody assembled. Does it have to have a serial number?
Thanks,
Jim
 
All firearms have a #:eek: Guess I was wrong.--I was thinking #s and letters are the same to id a firearm.
 
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Serial numbers were not always required on firearms. I have a few ancient single shot shotguns and .22 rifles that do not have serial numbers. In the case of that AK, it definitely should have a serial number.

As to obliterated numbers, I have a Glock 26 that was stolen/recovered and then traded into a LGS by a sheriff's office out of Florida. The number was scratched through. My LGS called BATF to ask if it could be sold, the agent refused to come out and look at it. The agent said if the number was readable at all (which it is) the gun could be sold.
 
I have a Winchester single shot shotgun without a serial number. It is pretty old. .410 good shooter. Belonged to my mother and was my first squirrel gun.
Mdl 37 ?
 
It was legal until somewhere I think in the 1950s or 1960s they had to have a factory serial #. I even had a winchester model 67 .22 made with no serial #.
 
It is legal for the guy that made it as long as he keeps it. You see the same thing with the 80% AR receivers that are made into complete guns. I think that you would have to have a number assigned and stamped on the gun to be able to legally sell it to another person.

I would look at the ATF web site to get the current rules on that.
 
Yes if you build a gun for yourself with no intention to sell it you aren't required to put a serial on it. If you then later do sell it, it is still a legal gun even without a serial as long as it doesn't need to be transferred through an FFL.
 
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b_san said:
Yes if you build a gun for yourself with no intention to sell it you aren't required to put a serial on it. If you then later do sell it, it is still a legal gun even without a serial.
Click to expand...

No. I don't think it is a legal gun unless you pay the excise tax on firearms and file some forms which may cost money in itself to manufacture guns for sale.

Building a gun even with a serial number and selling the ENTIRE gun without paying excise tax is a crime.
 
Nope you're 100% incorrect. It's completely legal to build oneself a gun with no intention to manufacture for resale and then at some time in the future dispose of them whether through sale or gift to a 3rd party.
 
Build it for yourself with no serial number is totally legal. Sell it in a situation where it does not have to go thru a FFL's books it is still legal. When that gun must go thru a FFL, a serial number must be assigned and stamped by the original maker (you). It can be any combination of letters and numbers or just letters OR numbers. You do not have to register the newly applied serial number. But that number must be used in the FFL books transfer.

Now, if you have a OEM gun with no serial number that was originally sold legally by the manufacturer to a member of the public, that gun does not have to have a serial number assigned. It just continues on its way like the OEM manufacturer put it out there for sale. ............. Big Cholla
 
unless it started out as a "80%" receiver I don't think it is legal. maybe there is such a thing as a "80%" receiver but I have only heard of them for AR's and 1911 pistols. an "80%" receiver requires some machining to be done before it can be a "100%" receiver. the atf doesn't keep track of the "80%" stuff. if you bought a "100%" receiver it would have a serial number and the usual paperwork involved. just my opinion

serial numbers were not required until 1968.
 
My Remington Nylon 66 doesn't have a Serial Number because they weren't required when it was made. Still one on my favorite guns and it only cost 70 Bucks when I bought it at Sears and Roebuck & Company.

They also sold Craftsman tools with a lifetime warranty that were proudly Made in America.
 
Legal to build from 80% lower and needs no number for the builder to own. To sell it needs a serial number. So if he says he bought he is breaking the law as is the guy selling, if he says he built it he's OK weather he built it or not unless they prove he is lying. This also depends on weather the individuals are legally prohibited from possessing any firearms.

From the ATF:Individuals manufacturing sporting-type firearms for their own use need not hold Federal Firearms Licenses (FFLs). However, we suggest that the manufacturer at least identify the firearm with a serial number as a safeguard in the event that the firearm is lost or stolen. Also, the firearm should be identified as required in 27 CFR 478.92 if it is sold or otherwise lawfully transferred in the future.

And yes many early firearms came without a S/N and are legal to own. I have two .22 rifles with out numbers from the factory and legally sold and bought a Remington and a Stevens. Also I have several C&R with two numbers, original and import Serial number.


P.S. as per BATF

Also, 27 C.F.R. § 478.39 states:

… (a) No person shall assemble a semiautomatic rifle or any shotgun using more than 10 of the imported parts listed in paragraph (c) of this section if the assembled firearm is prohibited from importation under section 925(d)(3) as not being particularly suitable for or readily adaptable to sporting purposes ….
 
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SERIAL NUMBERS ON GUNS

Serial numbers on rifles and shotguns were not required until 1968. I have seen some old cheaper handguns without numbers but many do have a #. I don't know what years it became mandatory to have a ser # on a handgun.
 
Legal. And no need for a 80% receiver. A gunsmith on Massachusetts gun forum made a AK using a shovel for a receiver

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk
 
gdnagle said:
From the ATF:Individuals manufacturing sporting-type firearms for their own use need not hold Federal Firearms Licenses (FFLs). However, we suggest that the manufacturer at least identify the firearm with a serial number as a safeguard in the event that the firearm is lost or stolen. Also, the firearm should be identified as required in 27 CFR 478.92 if it is sold or otherwise lawfully transferred in the future.
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It IS NOT required to serialize a homemade firearm when disposing of it to a 3rd party IF it wasn't manufactured with the intent of reselling it. The ATF SUGGESTS a lot of things that they can't legally require. 478.92 only applies to licensees.
 
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This is the first portion of the response on the BATFE website to a FAQ about building a firearm from one of the 'kits' (the 80% things I'd guess)....

For your information, per provisions of the Gun Control Act (GCA) of 1968, 18 U.S.C. Chapter 44, an unlicensed individual may make a “firearm” as defined in the GCA for his own personal use, but not for sale or distribution.

The GCA, 18 U.S.C. § 921(a)(3), defines the term “firearm” to include the following:


… (A) any weapon (including a starter gun) which will or is designed to or may be readily converted to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive: (B) the frame or receiver of any such weapon; (C) any firearm muffler or silencer; or (D) any destructive device. Such term does not include an antique firearm.
Firearms - Frequently Asked Questions - Firearms Technology | ATF


"..but not for sale or distribution." pretty much says it.


It's a heavily Gov't controlled industry. You can usually guess that they won't allow an unlicensed (non-FFL) to do much in the 'make & resell' area.
If you do,,they want you to get an 07FFL.
 
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2152hq said:
This is the first portion of the response on the BATFE website to a FAQ about building a firearm from one of the 'kits' (the 80% things I'd guess)....

For your information, per provisions of the Gun Control Act (GCA) of 1968, 18 U.S.C. Chapter 44, an unlicensed individual may make a “firearm” as defined in the GCA for his own personal use, but not for sale or distribution.

"..but not for sale or distribution." pretty much says it.
Click to expand...

It's really not a hard concept but everyone always wants to overcomplicate it. If you are making guns for yourself from 80% kits, AK flats or whatever you are not required to serialize them. If you then someday sell or otherwise dispose of them without using an FFL you still do not need to serialize them as you did not make them with the intent to sell or distribute.

It's all about your intent, if you build 10 guns and sell them next month you're probably an illegal manufacturer but if you build a couple of ARs from 80% lowers and then a couple years later decide you don't want them anymore and dispose of them to a 3rd party (non-licensee) you are not in the business of manufacturing a firearm and are completely legal (depending on your state transfer laws of course). Just use common sense.
 
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