Is that true of the Micro-Uzi? What is the cyclic rate on a Micro-Uzi? The reason I ask is that that is what was used in the case in MA a few years back, quoted above.
Would you let a nine year old shoot a Uzi?
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JJEH
Member
I'm sorry, I didn't read the whole thread. I shot the standard UZI with 10"? barrel in 9mm. That's a piece of cake. I'm not experienced with the micro UZI, again, my apologies.
No doubt these idiotic parents just couldn't wait to post there little girl firing an UZI on Face Book or YouTube. For some reason I can't imagine a little girl waking up in the morning and saying "Mommy Daddy can I fire a full auto UZI today"
RedNeck Jim
Member
This is the result of stupidity on the part of many... not the child. Also the result of this Facebook generation, that has to immediately upload video of every aspect of their life. So how do you one up your friends on Facebook? Let your 9 year old child shoot a fully auto weapon is the obvious answer. 
Every Mac 10, .380 Mac 11, Micro Uzi that I have ever handled or shot had a "hand strap" hanging in front to hold the muzzle down. Didn't notice one on either of the weapons in the vids. Joe
Mcwsky09
Member
When I let my 12 year old shoot a semi auto .22lr handgun I was poised and ready to grab his wrists and or the gun to keep it pointed down range should he forget or have any problem with the firearm. and that was after experience with BB guns/rifles and demonstration of an understanding regarding safe handling.
Nicksterdemus
Member
Lack of professional discipline w/large side of arrogance. The instructor should have known better. At the very least, after the first single round there should have been no more than two rounds for full auto. Only then could one properly evaluate if three rounds or more could be fired safely in automatic setting.
Another thing that should be employed is a collar for the muzzle attached to a chain and secured to a stand for those that may lack the strength/mass/skill. By keeping the chain relatively taut, 45* towards the target, you would minimize muzzle rise & lateral drift.
This isn't rocket science, yet the basic laws of physics are easily ignored at times apparently w/little regard for Murphy's law.
Another thing that should be employed is a collar for the muzzle attached to a chain and secured to a stand for those that may lack the strength/mass/skill. By keeping the chain relatively taut, 45* towards the target, you would minimize muzzle rise & lateral drift.
This isn't rocket science, yet the basic laws of physics are easily ignored at times apparently w/little regard for Murphy's law.
BLACKHAWKNJ
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More to this than meets the eye. Of course I wonder about the experience, judgment and credentials of this "instructor". The Uzi is not exactly kid friendly, most "men" can't handle it without a lot of training and IMHO the young should be strictly limited to bolt actions.
joeintexas
US Veteran
Besides the obvious, this being a terrible tragedy, instead of acknowledging the ignorance of the parents, the instructor and the range owner, our wonderful news media will immediately began another attack on the gun itself.
ChuckS1
US Veteran
Being that the range is a tourist destination close to Las Vegas, I can imagine that most of the shooters may have little or no experience with an automatic weapon. People underestimate how difficult they are to control, especially if the only ones they've seen are in the movies or TV, and we know how accurate those depictions usually are.
"I see the instructor at fault here and the instructor only. He's the professional and he should know best."
Instructor??? Professional??? No, he is the guy in need of an instructor and now he's dead.
I have to say that when I shot a full size Uzi 9mm full auto I found it not too bad at all to control. It was easier to hit with a short burst of auto fire than to try and hit a target with it switched to semi because of that big heavy open bolt slamming shut to fire and causing the entire gun to jump off target.
Instructor??? Professional??? No, he is the guy in need of an instructor and now he's dead.
I have to say that when I shot a full size Uzi 9mm full auto I found it not too bad at all to control. It was easier to hit with a short burst of auto fire than to try and hit a target with it switched to semi because of that big heavy open bolt slamming shut to fire and causing the entire gun to jump off target.
budster
Member
More updates to the story...
Shooting instructor dies after being accidentally shot by girl | Las Vegas Review-Journal
Shooting instructor dies after being accidentally shot by girl | Las Vegas Review-Journal
The Last Standing Knight
Member
Yep...gotta go with the MAC10 as well. High rate of fire and a climb that was almost impossible to control...and it was a 9mm. I can imagine a 45 would've been a lot worse.
forindooruseonly
Member
I started shooting full auto stuff when I was young, about the same age as the girl. My father had Uzis and MACs and a number of other things when they were cheap - in 86 at the time of the closing of the registry, I was nine years old.
It depends on the child. I've seen a lot stupid stuff happen with FA guns and people who didn't respect them, particularly with the open bolt stuff, and it just isn't kids who let guns get away from them.
There are proper ways to teach anyone, not just kids, about how to shoot full auto guns. This guy clearly didn't do it. Never give a beginner a full auto with a full magazine.
But to call anyone who lets kids shoot full autos as stupid, death-deserving swine is wrong. The man who got my father interested in NFA items and then taught me how to work with machine guns took the time to teach me correctly, and there are lots of other people who were introduced to machine guns at a young age by people who cared enough to teach them properly as well. One stupid person doesn't damn them all, we should know better than that.
Uzis are not the most difficult to control, there are a number of other MGs that are worse - most notably MACs without a suppressor and micro-uzis, Glock 18s, and full size battle rifles like the M14 (these at least are long enough to not flip around on you, but I've seen grown men send bullets over a berm cause they weren't prepared for it).
Yeah, it's tragic. I feel incredibly sorry for the girl who now has to cope with what happened, I feel sorry for her family, and I feel sorry for the man who got killed. I also lament the fact that shooting sports are forever a bad thing in her world, as well as the fallout that will occur because of it on the national stage. It's a sad, sad event.
It depends on the child. I've seen a lot stupid stuff happen with FA guns and people who didn't respect them, particularly with the open bolt stuff, and it just isn't kids who let guns get away from them.
There are proper ways to teach anyone, not just kids, about how to shoot full auto guns. This guy clearly didn't do it. Never give a beginner a full auto with a full magazine.
But to call anyone who lets kids shoot full autos as stupid, death-deserving swine is wrong. The man who got my father interested in NFA items and then taught me how to work with machine guns took the time to teach me correctly, and there are lots of other people who were introduced to machine guns at a young age by people who cared enough to teach them properly as well. One stupid person doesn't damn them all, we should know better than that.
Uzis are not the most difficult to control, there are a number of other MGs that are worse - most notably MACs without a suppressor and micro-uzis, Glock 18s, and full size battle rifles like the M14 (these at least are long enough to not flip around on you, but I've seen grown men send bullets over a berm cause they weren't prepared for it).
Yeah, it's tragic. I feel incredibly sorry for the girl who now has to cope with what happened, I feel sorry for her family, and I feel sorry for the man who got killed. I also lament the fact that shooting sports are forever a bad thing in her world, as well as the fallout that will occur because of it on the national stage. It's a sad, sad event.
Nicksterdemus
Member
OT, but I thought I'd inject a tad of levity.
As a much younger man around 20 I ran into a gent w/Mac-10 in 45 acp. I paid six dollars for four rounds as I recall. Maybe it was four bucks for six rounds as it's been quite a while.
In attempt at accuracy I kept it close so I could see the creek through the peep sight. There was a healthy trigger pull and when it finally broke it quickly emptied as every round bounced the receiver off the right cheek below my eye.
A few years ago I bought an Eastern bloc 9x18mm all steel pistola. Small though heavy w/six round mag. Upon taking off the stocks I noticed someone's handiwork. They had fashioned a cam of sorts that fit in a hole in the frame that took up a little of the slack/creep in the 50's military sidearm dependent upon position. I thought I could fine tune it a wee bit more.
One in the snout and six in waiting I took aim on a target on the ground at fifteen feet or so. Upon pulling the trigger I emptied the seven in well under a second w/at least the last four rounds in search of treetop dwellers/low flying geese.
At that point I realized that I could live w/some creep and adjusted it back to the original setting.
ETA: My point being that in either situation I could have had better control, however inexperience in the former combined w/element of surprise in the later trumped upper body strength. Only Superman was faster than a speeding boolit. Once you drop the hammer you have committed to the chain of events sure to follow w/o ability to renegotiate.
It's why they came up w/three round burst/panic setting. Besides saving ammo it allows one to bring the sights to bear back on target after muzzle rise. Regardless of white knuckle adrenalin pumping fight or flight you can't freeze and drop the entire load in an inadvertent spray n pray. It forces you to think and react in stages. Surely, the three burst mode wasn't determined by rolling a die on a whim.
As a much younger man around 20 I ran into a gent w/Mac-10 in 45 acp. I paid six dollars for four rounds as I recall. Maybe it was four bucks for six rounds as it's been quite a while.
In attempt at accuracy I kept it close so I could see the creek through the peep sight. There was a healthy trigger pull and when it finally broke it quickly emptied as every round bounced the receiver off the right cheek below my eye.
A few years ago I bought an Eastern bloc 9x18mm all steel pistola. Small though heavy w/six round mag. Upon taking off the stocks I noticed someone's handiwork. They had fashioned a cam of sorts that fit in a hole in the frame that took up a little of the slack/creep in the 50's military sidearm dependent upon position. I thought I could fine tune it a wee bit more.
One in the snout and six in waiting I took aim on a target on the ground at fifteen feet or so. Upon pulling the trigger I emptied the seven in well under a second w/at least the last four rounds in search of treetop dwellers/low flying geese.
At that point I realized that I could live w/some creep and adjusted it back to the original setting.
ETA: My point being that in either situation I could have had better control, however inexperience in the former combined w/element of surprise in the later trumped upper body strength. Only Superman was faster than a speeding boolit. Once you drop the hammer you have committed to the chain of events sure to follow w/o ability to renegotiate.
It's why they came up w/three round burst/panic setting. Besides saving ammo it allows one to bring the sights to bear back on target after muzzle rise. Regardless of white knuckle adrenalin pumping fight or flight you can't freeze and drop the entire load in an inadvertent spray n pray. It forces you to think and react in stages. Surely, the three burst mode wasn't determined by rolling a die on a whim.
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NAM68
US Veteran
It was sad to hear of this tragedy. Around the country every year there are many accidents at shooting ranges,and yes people killed. Since I myself was shot in the side 5 years ago by a sideways pistol 2 stalls down from me I no longer take my son or wife to the range. I have been shooting for 35 years I meet with my buddies that are very gun saftey savvy.
shouldazagged
Absent Comrade
It troubles me that the relative ease of shooting various SMG's, by grown men, has even entered into this discussion.
I'm happy for you that you, an adult, find an Uzi easy to control.
This was a little nine-year-old girl. I don't care if the gun they gave her was a complete pussycat for an adult, no child that age should be expected to shoot a full-auto firearm.
I love guns, but how hard different SMG's may be to shoot is the farthest thing from my mind as I think about this calamity.
She is nine.
I'm happy for you that you, an adult, find an Uzi easy to control.
This was a little nine-year-old girl. I don't care if the gun they gave her was a complete pussycat for an adult, no child that age should be expected to shoot a full-auto firearm.
I love guns, but how hard different SMG's may be to shoot is the farthest thing from my mind as I think about this calamity.
She is nine.
finesse_r
Member
Well I guess we will have to outlaw Uzi’s or 9-year-old girls. We cannot allow this type of thing to get out of hand. What are our legislators waiting for, tens of thousands of dead instructors.
We need a federal law that little girsl develop to age 8 then skip to age 10. That should solve this massive problem.
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