I was watching From Russia With Love tonight. Just an aside, Sean Connery is the TRUE James Bond.
His boss, M or Q or one of those vowels gives him a suitcase with a bunch of cloak-and-dagger weapons in it. One is an "AR-7 Sniper Rifle with folding stock in point two five caliber".
Uh, no. It's not a "Sniper" rifle, it's a plinker. It doesn't have a folding stock, you screw the barrel onto the receiver. And, it's a .22 LR.
Seems like Ian Fleming should know this stuff.
OK, I'm goin' to bed now. Rant over.
Jim

Why would you expect him to know guns? He's English.

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I always take precautions

Fleming was known to have very limited firearms knowledge. There are many more "errors" in both the movies and the books. One of the biggest is his description of the shoulder holster Bond uses for his PPK. Described as a "Berns-Martin holster" - when at the time Berns Martin only made a shoulder holsters for revolvers and not a semi-auto like the PPK.

Here is a post I made recently in the "Firearms & Knives - Other Brands". It is the very gun you speak of, although mine doesn't have a scope or scope mount. Having shot it myself it is as far from a sniper rifle as you can get. No wonder Tilly Masterson couldn't come close to hitting Goldfinger.

The Post:

I have a very early model Armalite. It has the extremely rare solid brown stock. Not to be confused the with brown "marbled" stock which is still rather rare, but much more plentiful than the solid brown stock.

The solid brown stock is also desirable due to Sean Connery using it in the rifle's first movie appearance in "From Russia with Love". It also made an appearance in the movie Goldfinger - shot by Tilly Masterson (Tania Mallet).







Mine also came with original box, owners manual and a 2 page write up from 1964 in the American Rifleman by E. J. Hoffschmidt . About the only thing missing is the original receipt.














American Rifleman July 1964:

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Dave

Dave,
Nice score. I remember when those came out, and Bond (like Dirty Harry) helped sells. Who would have thought they would become collectors' items. Thanks for the pics.

And I'm not EVEN going to touch how hollywierd approaches firearms.

Here I thought you were going to talk about in "Skyfall" where they used a 8.5" barreled AR with a scope.

That's funny what "facts" make their way into books and movies.

The I.D.F. uses a .22lr to great effect. Here is a suppressed 10/22 in combat.

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Regards,
Guy-Harold Smith II

One of my favorite errors is in "Dr. No" when Bond shoots the geologist after the geologist empties his pistol in a fight with Bond. Bond of course shoots him with his silenced PPK. I think the line was "That's a Smith and Wesson, and you've had your six". Problem is, the geologist had a M1911A1.

You all do realize this is/was ALL fake and not really designed as a documentary.......right......right?

If you really wated to take the time and energy to point out the fake bits as opposed to just enjoying the show, perhaps realize that the shoelaces on his wingtips NEVER broke and his Aston Martin always started.

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"You're messin' up my Zen"

I also noticed when he was in the big gunfight at the Gypsy camp his PPK was NEVER empty. Musta shot it about 25 times without reloading. And whenever he shot somebody with that powerful .380ACP round they would fall back and immediately die.

Now I know where the vast majority of people get everything they know about guns. The scary part is they vote.....and serve on juries.
Jim

The English have been making firearms longer than we.

Also, the largest arms manufacturer in the world is British Aerospace.

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Music/Sports/Beer fan

And if you look in the opening of that scene as well, when Bond sits down beside the door, he screws a suppressor into the muzzle of an FN..possibly a 1922 in 32 and NOT the Walther PPK he used on the guy after that little speech.

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The Last Standing Knight

If my memory serves, James used a mighty 7.65mm PPK, AKA .32 ACP.

You are correct, sir. A 32, that "hits like a brick through a plate glass window" (at least I think that's how M described it).

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I always take precautions

Wait...what? You mean there isn't a smoking hot bi-sexual girl with a crew of lesbians named Pussy Galore?

I am crushed.

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Dave

Uh, you mean "Q", the armorer, rather than "M", his boss. As I recall, your description of "Q"'s opinion of the mighty .32ACP is spot on.

Regards,

Dave, Double-O-Dave (cue the Bond theme music)

And Benedict Arnold was an American before I was born.

It was actually a .32acp...

The quote was actually, "With a delivery like a brick through a plate glass window."

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No good deed goes unpunished.

I remember M taking the Beretta away, in his (M's) office, but did not recall Q being there. So presumed it was M making the comparison.

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I always take precautions

It's the movies....

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Thirty characters. Exactly...

Id had always wondered about the rfle used and thank you for a great bit of info. Also, great photo of Connery "borrowing"Pedro Armendariz's shoulder to steady the rifle.

Does it really matter? It's for entertainment! Everyone would have to know everything about everything in order to make all movies correct. For example, I'm not into holsters. I don't collect them and see no awe in them. I just want to put my gun in a correct holster, that's all. So i wouldn't know if he used a Berns Martin holster or a Barns and Noble holster. Nor does it really matter

First off - I agree with you completely.

The only reason I brought up the Berns-Martin holster is that it was an extremely popular holster for S&W (and Colt) snub nose revolvers during the 50s/60s/70s used by detectives and other plain clothes operatives and therefore has a connection with our forum. (411 posts according to Google)



From the Berns-Martin wiki page:

A second, and equally well-known version, of the Berns-Martin holster was the company's Lightnin' holster (spelling intentional), a shoulder holster also for revolvers that carried them with the muzzles pointed upwards; that is, "upside down". It was this holster that was made famous by its inclusion in Ian Fleming's later Bond books, although it was not suited to Bond's Walther semi-auto pistol, causing the company to mark its brochures of the period, "no shoulder holster made for automatics".

The point being - it was an error that actually had real world implications and required the manufacture to add a disclaimer to their brochures.

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Dave

Quote: "hits like a brick through a plate glass window" unquote...only when compared to the .25 Beretta 007 had been carrying!

But whatever Bond did and as a kid back in the day,,,,,It was Cool !

I imagine I'll be flambeed (can't remember how to insert the accent mark over the first "e") for being so picky, but I can't allow such a glaring error to go unmentioned.

"M" and "Q" are not vowels, they're consonants.

There...I feel better already!

Tim

I, bet that the ammo that James left the office with wasn't bought at the locale Wal-Mart, and you guy's fail to realize any rifle in James Bond's hands is a sniper rifle.

And as stated earlier, it's just a story.

I know I off topic but I could use one of these in the city to take care of those damned pigeons and squirrels from my bedroom. Oh yeah!

And do I dare say it a "hushpuppy" for those pitbulls the gang bangers let loose on OP pets.

Don't you know the rules of this forum!!!!!


WE MUST HAVE PICS!!!!!!!!!

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PTLAPTA!

..........who all fall into bed (or any other area of convenience) with Bond? Actually, that part is true!

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"You're messin' up my Zen"

It's Hollyweird. Or the British version thereof. Yes, Ian Fleming knew next to nothing about firearms. After the first or second James Bond novel Fleming received a letter from Geoffrey Boothroyd, a noted English firearms authority questioning Bond's use of a .25 ACP as his primary gun and pointing out other mistakes. In the next novel "Major Boothroyd" was appointed 007's armorer and then from then on Fleming consulted with Boothroyd regarding Bond's armament.
How about the one movie where the villain is shown adjusting the windage and elevation on his rifle scope to get onto target. I recall seeing a still from another movie where the assassin's weapon of choice is- a scoped Mauser Broomhandle. I have an autographed photo of Robert Vaughan as Napoleon Solo holding a scoped carbine-based on a Mauser M1914.

I remember the first time I saw an AR-7 at the movies. My dad took me to see "Rage" starring George C. Scott. He shot a lot of people (and a cat) with his mighty .22:

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Rule of law, not a man.

In the hands of a cold-blooded killer such as myself this is a deadly weapon, out to about 1500 yards. I don't use a scope though as I find it throws off the balance.

For close in work and gun fights on the top of moving trains I use my PPK. My longest kill from a train was about 500 yards. I couldn't step it off because I was on one moving train and my target was on another moving train.

And as always, shaken not stirred.

Shhhhhh, don't tell 'em Sip!

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"You're messin' up my Zen"

And Just What Makes YOU an Expert???

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SWCA #2306
DAV in honor of POP

Step 1.. Turn NUM LOCK on.
Step 2. Press and hold down ALT. You may also have to do the same with Fn or some similiar key. I have to use Fn, I'm running Windows Vista.
Step 3. type 130 on the number pad, not the numbers above the letter keys.
Step; 4. Release ALT and Fn, turn off NUM LOCK.

There's a whole series of these things, not only for accents, but symbols like ¢, *, æ, ±, <, >, etc, etc.

That whole AR 7 thing has (casually) bugged me for years and years. First of all, it isn't a sniper rifle, and it is not in .25 caliber. But Hollywood isn't near as concerned with details as with a compelling story. Anyone remotely familiar with firearms can take the average film apart as to trivial details, but the stories are what we begin, and end with. A meticulously accurate boring story will always stay boring, while an action packed thriller with a few errors will stay riveting. Bond movies usually are riveting, inaccuracies or not.

Sometimes they score well for both authenticity of the gear and excitement. The one that comes to mind, though it's by no means perfect, is "Band Of Brothers".

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Oh well, what the hell.

It wasn't Q, the exotic weapons and gadgets guy. It was the Armourer, a Maj. Boothroyd. It was his only appearance in the movies, and he did NOT look like the real Boothroyd.

The name came from the real Geoffrey Boothroyd, an outstanding gun authority and author. I have in fact got a letter from him on Dr . No movie stationary. I'll probably auction it before too long. Boothroyd is now deceased.

His superb book, The Handgun, is one of the two that I recommend to new gun people. The other is Keith's, Sixguns.

I haven't read, Goldfinger since it was new in stores. (Yes, I was a Bond fan early on.)
I vaguely recall Tilley Masterson using a crossbow, but could easily be wrong.

Ian Fleming died about the time the Bond movies began. I think he probably saw the first two, only, and he was not in charge of the weapons chosen. Or, of much else. That was the province of Broccoli and Saltzman.

The gun with the silencer in, Dr. No was a Browning M-1910 in .32 or .380. And a longer Walther PP stood in for the PPK in at least one scene. I guess the studio had trouble getting the right props. Maybe they figured the public wouldn't know the difference.

Fleming had just a modest knowledge of firearms, and explained in, The Man With the Golden Gun that he (or his analyst character) considered an "excessive" interest in guns to be abnormal. He quoted a well known gun book as saying that the gun had influenced civilization more than any other implement. Fleming had in mind the printing press for that honor, and I think he was right.

He personally owned several handguns, inc. a Colt .38 Official Police that was given to him by Gen. Donovan of our OSS while Fleming was a Royal Navy intelligence officer. He carried a .25 Baby Browning as a spy, but I doubt he ever fired it in earnest.

"Life" ran a very nice article on Fleming about 1960 and he posed with several of his guns. Consider that the UK already had nasty gun laws, beginning in 1920, and that he had to run the gauntlet of red tape to be a licensed handgun owner.

I recall seeing maybe 5 or 6 pistols in his possession, so he had to care about them to bother with the onerous licensing laws. They included the Colt OP, a Colt New Service, a Ruger Mk I .22, and he evidently bought a S&W Centennial Airweight on Boothroyd's advice, while visiting in New York. He was pictured with the Centennial on some of his book covers. He held the OP Colt on others.

The real Boothroyd wrote a fine article on Bond's guns and the mix-ups in, Sports Ill. about 1962. I think it was the March or April 19 issue, if your library has back copies on some storage system. It is WELL worth seeking out. Much later, he also wrote about the Bond guns in, "Guns." Alas, I can't recall that issue.

The error about the Berns-Martin holster was Fleming's. Boothroyd had suggested it for the Centennial. Fleming chose the PPK against Boothroyd's advice. By the time the S&W Model 60 arrived, Boothroyd wrote that it was the ultimate Bond gun, due to the stainless construction.

I've just finished re-reading, Dr. No, and Fleming referred to the villain's guards carrying Smith & Wessons of the usual model. He surely meant the M&P. He wrote that about the time that S&W was assigning model numbers, so they'd be the Model 10. He made the mistake of thinking that the US .30 carbine was a Remington product. It was introduced by Winchester, although soon made by other contractors. But I don't think that any were Remingtons.

I hope this interests some here.

The gentleman who thought the gun with the silencer was a FN M-1922 is advised to look again. It 's def. the shorter M-1910, which Browning sold here for many years as their .380. Don
't know if the movie one was a .32 or a .380. The PPK was def. the .32/7.65mm.

I suspect that Ian Fleming sold a lot of merchandise for Walther, Beretta, Ronson (cigarette lighters) and Morland's custom cigarettes. He also featured Player's cigarettes in, Thunderball. I loved Dominetta's fantasy about the sailor on the box.

Fleming liked scrambled eggs and told one interviewer that he could probably eat them at every meal. I like them, too, and I think I'll go scramble a couple now. Bond even liked them for supper, and enjoyed wine with them, I believe. Good wines to accompany scrambled eggs include Riesling in the not too sweet grades, and Sauvignon blanc. Kendall-Jackson makes a good one.

Bond liked coffee, regarding tea as the opiate of the masses. An exception occurred while he was a patient at Shrublands, where he sneaked out of the clinic and bought tea in local shops, adding a lot of sugar to offset his strict health regimen at the clinic. Of course, one can't keep our James down, and as soon as he was discharged from the clinic, he took out Patricia Fearing and enjoyed both her and spaghetti and a bottle of cheap Chianti. I have enough trouble enjoying even the best Chianti Classico Riserva, so he must have been desperate for taste sensations after that bland health food.

I'm re-reading all of the 007 books. They're better than most newer fiction. And I sure prefer the books to the movies, although some of the movies are good for what they are.

Oh: as for other British fiction writers, Jack Higgins usually just gives brand names like "Ceska" and you have to figure out which model he means. Exceptions are the Walther PPK and the Browning Hi-Power. But Peter O'Donnell did a very workmanlike job with Modesty Blaise's guns and those of other characters in that series. S&W's mentioned were the Bodyguard snub .38, the Model 59, and the M-57 .41 Magnum.

Yea...and "wet work" means having to change your shorts......

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Forum consigliere

He lives in West Hollywood.

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Forum consigliere

Speaking of Boothroyd, I've got his book "The Handgun". It's a great book, of a similar quality to the original "Small Arms of the World".

I got my copy at Crown Books in the basement of Evergreen City Mall in Oak Lawn, IL in the '70s. Now there are barely any stores in the mall at all, and now that the Borders on 95th St. is closed, not a book store for miles in any direction.

A .22 is real good at killing things. I have been killing things with one since I was 12.
A silenced .22 is a choice of many in the business.
A .32 was the cat meow with many western gunslingers.
Blessings

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TEXAS, by GOD

I wouldn't equate a .32acp with a .32-20.

7.92x57mmJS is also a ".32"...

Well ok:

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Dave

Well, alright!

I hate to disappoint you, zzzip, but you only grazed me.

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Oh well, what the hell.

This AR-7 is a bit unusual. I bought it January of 1974. It has ArmaLite markings, but came in a Charter Arms box. In 1973, ArmaLite had sold the rights to the AR-7 to Charter. The first guns Charter sold were pure ArmaLite, and those of their own manufacture did not come along until the ArmaLite inventory had become exhausted. The first Charter-manufactured guns had real quality control issues, including spotty functioning and crooked barrels. They finally got the problems ironed out.

John

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- Cogito, ergo armatus sum -

You know what is interesting about that pic---and I really don't want to dwell on the thought---if you got those girls together today to remake that picture----OH---Let's just move on.
AAAAARRRRRGGGGGGHHHHH
Blessings

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TEXAS, by GOD

Back in HS I can recall reading one of the Bond books and he carried a large frame, S&W revolver, in .45 acp possibly under the dashboard of his car?

All my Bond books are long gone...anyone else recall the revolver?

And to brag a bit....I have heard the Classic Bond introduction right from the one and only, REAL James Bonds lips...Sean Connery. Recall the movie, "The Untouchables"? Back in 1986 they shot the Canadian bridge, shootout scene five miles from my house.

I was down there most every day as the resident State Trooper as they had a few roads closed. I got to hang with the entire cast, it was a great six weeks. I chatted with Mr. Connery several times on everything from single malt scotch to fly fishing. He was a real gentleman. Always took the time to talk to fans, sign autographs, etc. A real Class act.

Anyway one day I was talking with him about the Bond films and I asked him to indulge me and give me the famous line. He was in his Malone character outfit and as soon as he said.... "Bond....James Bond". He instantly had a tuxedo and was at a baccarat table in Monte Carlo. It was quite unforgettable.

He also stated at one point that financially and career wise, "Bond" had been very good to him.



Me and the cast, last day on set, October 1986.