Faulkner
Member
I believe the guns used in the Planet of the Apes movies where tricked out M1 carbines.
If the balloon goes up: Survival rifles
- Thread starter PALADIN85020
- Start date
I believe the guns used in the Planet of the Apes movies where tricked out M1 carbines.
GatorFarmer
Member
I think that the general idea being suggested might be more along the lines of a backwoods/hardtimes game getter more so than anything else.
I emailed Henry Arms once, not so long ago, about their version of the AR-7. I'd read that they'd work more or less reliably with mini mags, esp after polished. But I wrote to ask whether they'd stand behind one behind reliable. The president of the company wrote me back. He said that they'd stand it behind it however possible... but.... if I wanted a really reliable rifle I'd be much better off with one of their lever actions. I appreciated his honesty.
One of these days I'll get one of their lever actions too.
Meanwhile, I like the little/simple CZ513 bolt action. It's light, handy, and fairly cheap. Seems robust and simple enough too. A conversion kit to make one a single shot can be had as well. Though any of dozens of single shot or magazine fed bolt action rifles made over the years would also work.
A suppressed weapon isn't legally available in all states, the tax stamp alone will cost more than many used .22s (and a decent stash of ammo) and a suppressed weapon will tend to be (all things being equal) less reliable and more maintenance intensive than one without a can on it. The .22 rimfire - esp from a rifle - isn't that noisy anyway and most people aren't good at telling where a shot came from, the more so if there is only one shot.
I had one of the Cz made .22Hornet over .410 rifles during the Y2K hysteria. I sold it some years later. Maybe for aircrew survival for a SAC crew it made sense, but eh... Would also work in an aircrew survival kit for flying the bush, maybe in an off roading vehicle, etc. For the backwoods cabin or home, the over under savage in .22LR/20ga is probably the more useful thing to walk around with.
On any kind of a budget, and if one wants to purshase new, the Henry Lever Action could be paired with a Heritage Arms Single Action and someone can be up and running relatively quickly.
So why do I have a bolt action? Easy to fire prone. Easy to load with any old mangy or banged up .22 ammo (short, long, long rifle) that you have laying around too. And if breaks, so long as I can salvage the bbl I can rig up something that will still fire with a door bolt if I had to (seen it done).
I have ARs of course, for other purposes. But those aren't that interesting and pretty much the same as most. What's rather telling is that so many have ARs to show off.... but you rarely see body armor with rifle plates and combat life saver bags to go with them. Or night vision gear... etc. If you find yourself in dire need of a fighting rifle to stay alive, odds are that you really need the sorts of things that accompany one into battle too, but not too many people get the rest of the stuff.
I do not own any pistol caliber carbines. They tend to make mediocre hunting guns (the .44 mag lever actions - which I did used to have one -- are somewhat useful I'll admit). For personal defense, well you'll get the increased hit probability that a shoulder fired weapon gives but... you've lost the range and power that a rifle would give. You also end up with a weapon unlikely to penetrate the better types of even soft body armor. Yet conversely you can accidentally shoot through more walls than you would with a 5.56mm properly loaded.
ARs are far from useless for hunting - that many AR pattern rifles are now sold specifically for hunting serves to illustrate this - but the configurations most useful for defensive purposes don't always lend themselves as well to game gathering. A notable exception would be a full size flat top fitted with one of the ACOG optics.
I emailed Henry Arms once, not so long ago, about their version of the AR-7. I'd read that they'd work more or less reliably with mini mags, esp after polished. But I wrote to ask whether they'd stand behind one behind reliable. The president of the company wrote me back. He said that they'd stand it behind it however possible... but.... if I wanted a really reliable rifle I'd be much better off with one of their lever actions. I appreciated his honesty.
One of these days I'll get one of their lever actions too.
Meanwhile, I like the little/simple CZ513 bolt action. It's light, handy, and fairly cheap. Seems robust and simple enough too. A conversion kit to make one a single shot can be had as well. Though any of dozens of single shot or magazine fed bolt action rifles made over the years would also work.
A suppressed weapon isn't legally available in all states, the tax stamp alone will cost more than many used .22s (and a decent stash of ammo) and a suppressed weapon will tend to be (all things being equal) less reliable and more maintenance intensive than one without a can on it. The .22 rimfire - esp from a rifle - isn't that noisy anyway and most people aren't good at telling where a shot came from, the more so if there is only one shot.
I had one of the Cz made .22Hornet over .410 rifles during the Y2K hysteria. I sold it some years later. Maybe for aircrew survival for a SAC crew it made sense, but eh... Would also work in an aircrew survival kit for flying the bush, maybe in an off roading vehicle, etc. For the backwoods cabin or home, the over under savage in .22LR/20ga is probably the more useful thing to walk around with.
On any kind of a budget, and if one wants to purshase new, the Henry Lever Action could be paired with a Heritage Arms Single Action and someone can be up and running relatively quickly.
So why do I have a bolt action? Easy to fire prone. Easy to load with any old mangy or banged up .22 ammo (short, long, long rifle) that you have laying around too. And if breaks, so long as I can salvage the bbl I can rig up something that will still fire with a door bolt if I had to (seen it done).
I have ARs of course, for other purposes. But those aren't that interesting and pretty much the same as most. What's rather telling is that so many have ARs to show off.... but you rarely see body armor with rifle plates and combat life saver bags to go with them. Or night vision gear... etc. If you find yourself in dire need of a fighting rifle to stay alive, odds are that you really need the sorts of things that accompany one into battle too, but not too many people get the rest of the stuff.
I do not own any pistol caliber carbines. They tend to make mediocre hunting guns (the .44 mag lever actions - which I did used to have one -- are somewhat useful I'll admit). For personal defense, well you'll get the increased hit probability that a shoulder fired weapon gives but... you've lost the range and power that a rifle would give. You also end up with a weapon unlikely to penetrate the better types of even soft body armor. Yet conversely you can accidentally shoot through more walls than you would with a 5.56mm properly loaded.
ARs are far from useless for hunting - that many AR pattern rifles are now sold specifically for hunting serves to illustrate this - but the configurations most useful for defensive purposes don't always lend themselves as well to game gathering. A notable exception would be a full size flat top fitted with one of the ACOG optics.
They were Hi Point's with the original stocks.
Sebago Son
Member
I never could hit beans with the AR-7 no matter who made it. You can do ALOT better with a used Winchester 69 for $200 or so.
But this is my idea of a SHTF rifle.
Throw in a .22 LR conversion kit and it will do everything that the AR-7 will (except float) and more...
Backed up by one or more of these...
If you feel the need for longer ranges and more power and better penetration than this is a valid alternative.
Drew
But this is my idea of a SHTF rifle.
Throw in a .22 LR conversion kit and it will do everything that the AR-7 will (except float) and more...
Backed up by one or more of these...
If you feel the need for longer ranges and more power and better penetration than this is a valid alternative.
Drew
amazingflapjack
US Veteran
The Humble 22...
I can't imagine any well thought out civil unrest strategy that, along with whatever else, did not include several high quality 22's, both rifles and handguns, and at least a couple thousand rounds of the ammo they prefer. When you think about the inherant accuracy, the ability for almost anyone to effectively put one into action, the portability of the ammo, and the inherant quietness of these tried and tested guns, it would be an oversight, and possibly a fatal one, to leave this weapon system out of a home or personal arsenal, in my view. As far as the often implied "mosquito bite" effect of being hit by one, it's just not worth talking about. I would venture to guess that someone with the will to do so could hit multiple moving human targets, multiple times with my Ruger 10-22, using its red dot sight and a 50 round magazine. It can be effectively fired at a rate close to some full autos. If they have armor, they'd better have it on their feet, hands, and eye balls, cause they are vulnerable in the scenario described above. After that, anyone who cares to can have more of the same if they wish, but if that's all I had, you'd better believe I could use it to great effectiveness. Flapjak.
I can't imagine any well thought out civil unrest strategy that, along with whatever else, did not include several high quality 22's, both rifles and handguns, and at least a couple thousand rounds of the ammo they prefer. When you think about the inherant accuracy, the ability for almost anyone to effectively put one into action, the portability of the ammo, and the inherant quietness of these tried and tested guns, it would be an oversight, and possibly a fatal one, to leave this weapon system out of a home or personal arsenal, in my view. As far as the often implied "mosquito bite" effect of being hit by one, it's just not worth talking about. I would venture to guess that someone with the will to do so could hit multiple moving human targets, multiple times with my Ruger 10-22, using its red dot sight and a 50 round magazine. It can be effectively fired at a rate close to some full autos. If they have armor, they'd better have it on their feet, hands, and eye balls, cause they are vulnerable in the scenario described above. After that, anyone who cares to can have more of the same if they wish, but if that's all I had, you'd better believe I could use it to great effectiveness. Flapjak.
Last edited:
"But I agree with those who are staying put. I have a well shallow enough for a hand pump. I have a wood stove. I not on a main road."
The water supply for my house was once a spring up the holler. It is still there and fills a large tank. I also have a spring branch (small stream) and a creek on the property, so water is not a problem.
I have a wood cook stove and acres of trees behind me. There MIGHT be at least one .22 LR long gun here, as well as a shotgun, .308 rifle or two, and perhaps a handgun.
I ain't going nowhere!
The water supply for my house was once a spring up the holler. It is still there and fills a large tank. I also have a spring branch (small stream) and a creek on the property, so water is not a problem.
I have a wood cook stove and acres of trees behind me. There MIGHT be at least one .22 LR long gun here, as well as a shotgun, .308 rifle or two, and perhaps a handgun.
I ain't going nowhere!
The little 15-22 does duty as a .22LR, with the additional advantage of looking like a genuine "assault rifle". That could have a certain amount of deterrent effect right there.
Other good little guns are the old Nylon 66, pretty accurate, durable, and very light; and the old Savage O/U utility guns. Mine is the Camper Special .22LR over 20 ga. with a .30-30 liner.
Although a .22LR isn't much of a defensive round per se, in difficult times it might get more respect; getting shot with one when medical care is problematical would be a very serious matter indeed. Sort of like the Old West when the victim might not die right away but take a few days to expire from complications. Nasty.
Other good little guns are the old Nylon 66, pretty accurate, durable, and very light; and the old Savage O/U utility guns. Mine is the Camper Special .22LR over 20 ga. with a .30-30 liner.
Although a .22LR isn't much of a defensive round per se, in difficult times it might get more respect; getting shot with one when medical care is problematical would be a very serious matter indeed. Sort of like the Old West when the victim might not die right away but take a few days to expire from complications. Nasty.
In todays world in the USA, where legal I think the best choice for a "Survival Rifle" is some sort of AR15. If you could have only one, an AR with a bunch of ammo and a bunch of magazines should be your first buy.
You need a good handgun and a bunch of ammo/magazines, or speedloaders, if you choose revolvers as your primary bad days handgun.
THEN, I would think about 22 LR's and shotguns.
IF you live some where out in the "toolies" in bear, or big game country, and prefer a 308 for you primary rifle then I have no problem with that.
Again in todays world an M1A is probably the best choice, however I prefer the H&K 91 personally.
You need a good handgun and a bunch of ammo/magazines, or speedloaders, if you choose revolvers as your primary bad days handgun.
THEN, I would think about 22 LR's and shotguns.
IF you live some where out in the "toolies" in bear, or big game country, and prefer a 308 for you primary rifle then I have no problem with that.
Again in todays world an M1A is probably the best choice, however I prefer the H&K 91 personally.
Last edited:
When it comes to 22LR rifles I think the Ruger 10-22 is the hands down best choice. It has a very good repuation for good accuracy and reliability.
Also with steel lipped 25 round magazines they are still very reliable.
Another 22LR I like is the take down Browning. Taken down it can fit in places and be carried in a pack very easily. They are very reliable, and fairly accurate.
Also with steel lipped 25 round magazines they are still very reliable.
Another 22LR I like is the take down Browning. Taken down it can fit in places and be carried in a pack very easily. They are very reliable, and fairly accurate.
USMC Snakedriver
Member
These fantasy speculations about apocalyptic scenarios requiring the choice of a specific gun to survive are just plain ridiculous. What's the objective? The only reasonable explanation would have to be pure entertainment.
While I agree with many of the opinions stated here, I likely disagree with them as well.
First off, today's urban dwellers would have difficulty even cleaning wild game. They never had to before, do not hunt and look to the government for food, protection and survival. In the large cities, where most live, there are few squirrels, rabbits or such. I live in a very small town and have enough squirrels around the house to last a few days but the other neighbors will be shooting them as well. We have a few deer pass by the house each day but those would not last long in a severe situation as being described.
Now I can go to my farm and live another 20 yrs without seeing anyone or running out of food. It has generator for power, a well for water and hundreds of thousands of acres filled with walking food items. Anyone driving past is usually lost since the area is so remote and unknown.
Yet what happens in the city when massive power outages take place? People will have their food spoiling so it is best not to keep a full freezer but rather a full pantry.
For guns, I think it would be crazy of me to think I could pack up all my guns, safes, ammo and such to head for the farm (two hrs away). I am far better off here even during critical times. While I do not have six months of supplies on hand, I could make it thirty days without hunting for food and I could protect my property for a year or two and that is the real issue. As was seen during a hurricane, both home and store invasions were very popular. People were stealing things they could not use nor sell. While this covered a large area, it was not statewide or national. A drive of 75 miles would give one food, fuel or whatever they needed. Put on a larger scale, I am not sure anyone can be prepared for a true national emergency.
First off, today's urban dwellers would have difficulty even cleaning wild game. They never had to before, do not hunt and look to the government for food, protection and survival. In the large cities, where most live, there are few squirrels, rabbits or such. I live in a very small town and have enough squirrels around the house to last a few days but the other neighbors will be shooting them as well. We have a few deer pass by the house each day but those would not last long in a severe situation as being described.
Now I can go to my farm and live another 20 yrs without seeing anyone or running out of food. It has generator for power, a well for water and hundreds of thousands of acres filled with walking food items. Anyone driving past is usually lost since the area is so remote and unknown.
Yet what happens in the city when massive power outages take place? People will have their food spoiling so it is best not to keep a full freezer but rather a full pantry.
For guns, I think it would be crazy of me to think I could pack up all my guns, safes, ammo and such to head for the farm (two hrs away). I am far better off here even during critical times. While I do not have six months of supplies on hand, I could make it thirty days without hunting for food and I could protect my property for a year or two and that is the real issue. As was seen during a hurricane, both home and store invasions were very popular. People were stealing things they could not use nor sell. While this covered a large area, it was not statewide or national. A drive of 75 miles would give one food, fuel or whatever they needed. Put on a larger scale, I am not sure anyone can be prepared for a true national emergency.
A regular killjoy, this fellow!
But he and Oldman45 are right and most of us know it. Sure, it is going to be very tough to make adequate preparations for a true emergency of national scale that interrupts the supply of food and essential utilities. Even the generator folks with soon enough run out of fuel. But just what is wrong with a little idle speculation and harmless entertainment in the meantime?
1 old 0311
Member
If it comes down to SHTF this is my rifle, .45 Hi-Point Carbine. Shoots great,No issues and is Deadly Accurate. I don`t laugh at Hi-Point anymore,they got this right!.
This summer I was sitting on the porch reading a gun mag and saw a add for Hi-Point. I called and asked the lady why they didn't make these compatible with Glock mags, like Kel Tec did. She laughed and said "I get at LEAST 30 of these calls a day. We would have to shut down production to modify the tooling and right now we sell all we can make."
Lee in Quartzsite
Member
Probably my 42 year old Remington Nylon 66. It still fires like new, requires no lubrication, uses a tube magazine, and light weight. All I need is a pocket full of .22 ammo.
doublesharp
Member
I bought a Charter Arms AR7 and a NAA 22 mag derringer both brand new from a kitchen table ffl back in the late 70s. Found his ad in our local sale paper, The Bargain Mart. He delivered them to me at my fruit stand and the procedure was about like buying a bottle of booze. I showed my drivers license and the cash. I got a good AR7 and have had no problems. Still have it and the 22mg.
When the shtf I'm going down in style with my fancy stocked mini 14 and a few more bbq guns.
I'll take a few revolvers, too.
When the shtf I'm going down in style with my fancy stocked mini 14 and a few more bbq guns.
I'll take a few revolvers, too.
kraigwy
US Veteran
I'm not of the SHTF crowd but I'll chime in.
When I first moved to Alaska in early 72, I worked for the railroad the first two years until I went to work for APD.
I lived in Lignite, three miles north of Healy (near McKinley Park). I built a little cabin because there was no place else to live unless you wanted to stay at the Healy Hotel.
Also there was no work, no jobs what so ever in this part of Alaska in the Winter. I pretty much fed my family with a little Savage 24, 22/410. Snow shoe Hares, and ptargamin.
I had several other firearms, but this is the one that did the trick for me.
Are there better guns for this sort of thing? Don't know, but I don't see how any gun could have given me any more small game to eat.
When I first moved to Alaska in early 72, I worked for the railroad the first two years until I went to work for APD.
I lived in Lignite, three miles north of Healy (near McKinley Park). I built a little cabin because there was no place else to live unless you wanted to stay at the Healy Hotel.
Also there was no work, no jobs what so ever in this part of Alaska in the Winter. I pretty much fed my family with a little Savage 24, 22/410. Snow shoe Hares, and ptargamin.
I had several other firearms, but this is the one that did the trick for me.
Are there better guns for this sort of thing? Don't know, but I don't see how any gun could have given me any more small game to eat.
I agree with you on the value of a .22LR, but I also agree with Out West on your choice of firearms. I had one of the original Armalites. It was an adequate rifle for large targets (deer), but for the type of game you would subsist on in a survival situation (rabbits, squirrels, birds) it was totally inadequate. I have replaced it with several light .22's that if prefer. My selection includes Remington 510's and Mossberg 342's. My current favorite is a Mossberg 342KB; light weight, clip fed, and deadly accurate. The only fault I find with these is the finish. All are blued steel and require more maintenance than a stainless firearm.
I noticed from your profile you seem to be closer to my age than many forum members. At my age I do not see me cruising the woods as a survivor. I will stay put in my rural location and make short distance foraging hunts if the need arises.
I noticed from your profile you seem to be closer to my age than many forum members. At my age I do not see me cruising the woods as a survivor. I will stay put in my rural location and make short distance foraging hunts if the need arises.
Brian41
Member
I much more prefer the AR as a do all gun and they're mainly what I've taken stock in.
I do see the place in a 22 rifle for hunting small game rather quietly and have a couple 10/22s for that as well as some handguns in that caliber.
What hasn't been mentioned here in such a senerio is trading stock and a 22 rifle and ammo might be the best bet there. I bought a couple Romanian trainers for $50.00 each and wish I'd bought more of them.
I suspect I could trade one for food or other needed items should the stores all be closed. I live in the country and have a well stocked pantry but my neighbors might not be so well prepared. I'd much rather give them or trade a cheap 22 than one of my ARs. I also have a lot of 22 ammo that I could use or trade as well.
I'm getting older and can't expect to run around the woods and survive long either. I plan on staying right here and doing the best I can but it would be quite a struggle regardless and I wouldn't expect to survive that long either. I'm not willing to give up and die but simple fact does not give most of us that long in such a situation.
I do see the place in a 22 rifle for hunting small game rather quietly and have a couple 10/22s for that as well as some handguns in that caliber.
What hasn't been mentioned here in such a senerio is trading stock and a 22 rifle and ammo might be the best bet there. I bought a couple Romanian trainers for $50.00 each and wish I'd bought more of them.
I suspect I could trade one for food or other needed items should the stores all be closed. I live in the country and have a well stocked pantry but my neighbors might not be so well prepared. I'd much rather give them or trade a cheap 22 than one of my ARs. I also have a lot of 22 ammo that I could use or trade as well.
I'm getting older and can't expect to run around the woods and survive long either. I plan on staying right here and doing the best I can but it would be quite a struggle regardless and I wouldn't expect to survive that long either. I'm not willing to give up and die but simple fact does not give most of us that long in such a situation.
Lots of folks talking about hunting "wild" game in a SHTF situation......realistically while wild game will be on the menu, but so will everything else when thousands/millions of people are hungry....dogs, cats, cattle, horses .....all of em.
Think about it a moment!!
Poodles would make a good meal when you are hungry and desperate.
Don
Think about it a moment!!
Poodles would make a good meal when you are hungry and desperate.
Don
Last edited:
