TCM recently played: Dark of the Sun which starred Rod Taylor as a Merc Captain, Jim Brown as his Sergeant, Kenneth More as a British Army Dr/Capt/drunk and a few other recognizable faces.

This movie dealt with a Merc unit sent to either rescue a large bag of diamonds worth many millions of dollars--or either to escourt them to the people who hired them.

I was wondering that if you have seen this movie? what are your thoughts on it? for me--even though it was filmed years before The Wild Geese--it seems like a poor mans copy of The Wild Geese.

The Wild Geese w/ Richard Burton, Roger Moore, Richard Harris, Hardy Kruger,John Kani and many others. This is an all time favorite movie of mine and loved it. Those who seen it--know they wre hired to rescue imprisoned President Limbarney (SP?) and know what all happened.

Had Richard Burton not been Colonel Faulkner in the Wild Geese--I think Rod Tayor would have done an exellent job of it. Had John Kani not been Sergeant Jesse-in TWG--I think Jim Brown would have done excellent in the role.

Some similarities and on actual history between the two movies.

Both movies have the Merc eventually fighting Simba warriors. I know little about the Simbas--but what little I know-paints them as blood-thirsty murderers--Zombies if you will. The German actor in Dark of the Sun--cant think of his name off-hand--would have been OK as the Hardy Kruger character in Geese. Dr (Kenneth More) would have been too old-but-had he been younger--would have made a great Sean Finn (Rogers Moores character in Geese.

Anyway, both moview were full of action and plenty of good stuff, but Dark of the Sun IMO--not as good as Geese was.

Since im not well educated on what actually happened in Africa with the Simbas--I do know they murdered many white Africans for whatever reason (NOT TRYING TO BE RACIAL)

Whatid like to know is--what are your thoughts on these movies and as far as historial accuracy dealing with the Simbas and such. Also, if you have any references on books and websites on the Simbas and Merc actions in Africa--would be appreciated.

Hardy Krueger(?) was great as the Iron Cross wearing ex-SS(?) man who likes to shoot civilians.

I greatly prefer "Dark of the Sun". It's a much more serious movie, and greatly impressed us as kids when it came out.

I liked Wild Geese (haven't seen Dark of the Sun) and did not consider the medic's performance to be homophobic. The Wild Geese (1978) - Trivia - IMDb "Producer Euan Lloyd hesitated before offering the role of 'Witty' (the homosexual medic) to his longtime friend Kenneth Griffith. When finally approached, Griffith said "Some of my dearest friends in the world are homosexuals!" and accepted the part. The character was widely condemned as a homophobic stereotype."

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I always take precautions

Some good books on Africa....... check out Wilber Smith...[Edit: as I thought he wrote "The Dark of the Sun"]

Pretty sure both those movies were based on best selling books in the late 60s early 70s.

Modern version is .... Bruce Willis film....... Willis is a Navy Seal ( of course; isn't everyone these days) sent into Africa to rescue a American Physician........... who doesn't have Ebola....LOL

Kruger was in Wild Geese but--I cant think of the name of the guy in Dark of the Sun. Ive seen him in a few movies like: Hannible Brooks--as a German Corporal.

I was impressed with the movie though. Its on DvD and im weighing on getting it or not?

I thought Griffith did very well as the Medic--took on a group of big Simbas too.

Thanks for these and, im going to search for a copy. Im getting more interested in what happened during that time. Need a break from WWII stuff.

Haven't seen it but will check around. "The Wild Geese" is a favorite of mine, particularly the RSM. ("Let's try for our first heart attack, shall we?") The story is that there was definite merc input into the movie's making...

The Burton-Harris drunk scene in the club was, ah, very well done!

Euan Lloyd produced both this and another favorite of mine, "The Final Option", about the SAS. His daughter, Rosalind Lloyd, a real cutie, appeared in both movies. The "Final Option" is a must-see. BHP fans definitely get their money's worth!

I like "Dogs of War" with Christopher Walken.
And the book Flamingo Feather by Laurens Van Der Post, not really about Mercs but real close.

Another great novel..... Fredrick Forsyth........

The word mercenary can cover a wide range of combatants, depending on your viewpoint of the conflict. I'm sure that some called the Flying Tigers, mercs. I would have called them Americans. I'm glad that "Dogs of War" was mentioned, it has been a long time since I have seen any of these films. I feel there are other flicks that need to be brought up.

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Wayne
Torn & Frayed

If anyone wants a written view of that type of thing, Mike Hoare wrote an autobigraphical book about his experiences as a mercenary in what had been the Belgian Congo. Don't recall the title off hand, should be searchable by author.

Foggy memory suggests the Simbas were one of a number of insurgent groups in the post colonial Congo. They were not nice people. The memory is too foggy to recall what the various parts of the squabbling nation were termed at that time. The former Congo is now at least 3 separate countries.

Mike Hoare actually served as advisor on "The Wild Geese". The whole story of that movie is set in a fictional African country, although it probably gives a pretty good (and cynical) view of how politics in that continent worked in that era. "Simbas", which simply means lions, is also used entirely fictionally for the elite presidential guard in the film.
"Dark of the Sun" is fictional, but set in the real Congo during the real Simba rebellion there during the 1960s. The Simbas were tribal rebels who were convinced they were magically bullet-proof. The Congolese government hired European mercenaries to fight them. That's the book's and movie's background. For the real historical background, read Mike Hoare's book "Congo Mercenary" or Anthony Mocklers "The Mercenaries".
"The Wild Geese" I find to be the technically and artistically much better made of the two films; but then, it had much more star power and bigger budget behind it.

The Wild Geese is one of my favorites! The coolest guy in the movie thought was Ian Yule, who played Tosh Donaldson; the guy wearing the SAS beret and the awesome super short barreled FN FAL. In real life, Yule was in the SAS and later served under Hoare. My Ian Yule autograph is in my office.

Dogs of War was a decent movie and a GREAT book. Awesome research as always by Forsyth.

In the fictional Brotherhood of War series by W.E.B. Griffin, one or two of his books deal with the Belgian Congo and Stanleyville.

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Cheers, Charles
SWCA #2442

Of the two films, I've only seen "The Wild Geese" and enjoyed it very much (except the cross-bow BS). I have talked with people (Africans) that lived in Leopoldsville and surrounding areas in that time frame. I felt the movie was pretty accurate from a merc's point of view. I have a friend that needed money to keep his farm from repossession after he got out of the US Army. He refused to do merc-work in central or southern Africa due to the tendency to abandon mercs to the wind when they had accomplish the mission. He did say Ross Perot was pretty good to work for. Ivan

Thanks for the tip on the other movie--I havent heard of it but will look around for a copy.

To this day--ive still not ever seen Dogs of War. Im taking that this too is a Merc movie?

My favorite by Forsythe so far is: The Odessa File. Read both the book and seen the movie.

I LOVE The Final Option!

Supposedly Lewis Collins passed SAS selection to join the reserve equivalent of the SAS but was denied acceptance. I've read that it was because he was a celebrity or too big.

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Cheers, Charles
SWCA #2442

Thanks for this and--bringing back to my memory about Mike Hoare.I havent heard his name in years.

Yup, Frederick Forsyth's third book. Decent movie with both a young Christopher Walken and Tom Berenger

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Cheers, Charles
SWCA #2442

Thanks for this and also for Absalom too. Stanleyville--WHY does that name ring a bell???????.

I like both actors very well and see I should have no probs enjoying it. I think ill include it in my next DvD purchase.

I believe both those gentlemen brought considerable experience to the scene.

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Oh well, what the hell.

I think his last hurrah came when he tried to lead a group of mercenaries in an attempted coup in the Seychelles in 1981, made a complete mess of things, and then went to jail for several years for hijacking a civilian airliner to get himself and his "gang that couldn't shoot straight" out of there. After that, everybody in the business apparently figured his days were over. I think he's still alive, but he must be ancient by now.

I can't recall the whole story off hand. Stanleyville is a town in the Belgian Congo that I think Hoare's Commando unit was hired by the Belgians to defend, along with the Belgian Army. Supposedly our Army had SF advisors there, according to Griffin's book, which I wouldn't be surprised.

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Cheers, Charles
SWCA #2442

Named after Stanley, of "Dr. Livingston, I presume?" fame. Largest city in the (ex) Belgian Congo.

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I always take precautions

Did you know?

The term Wild Geese originally applied to an army of Irish Catholics who fled Ireland to escape English oppression during the 1690s. Many men, who were under sentence of death if caught, were smuggled to France, where they fought as mercenaries. The bills of lading for the boats often simply read "a shipment of wild geese". A similar migration occurred during the 1700s, following a Jacobite rebellion in Scotland (where many Irish fought alongside the Scots), and following the 1780s rebellion and during the Irish Genocide or Potato Famine.

The name was also loosely applied to Irish troops fighting under the British during WWI and the Easter Uprising.

A very good book about mercenaries in Africa is "Monkey Blood" by Hal Williams.

Not available in paper but you can get it as a e-book down load.

FWIW: Amazon.com: Who Dares Wins (The Final Option): Lewis Collins, Judy Davis, Richard Widmark, Edward Woodward, Robert Webber, Tony Doyle, John Duttine, Kenneth Griffith, Rosalind Lloyd, Ingrid Pitt, Norman Rodway, Maurice Roëves, Phil Meheux, Ian Sharp, Chris Chrisafis, Euan Lloyd, Raymond Menmuir, George Markstein, James Follett, Reginald Rose: Movies & TV@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/411hVdEEiTL.@@AMEPARAM@@411hVdEEiTL

The SAS BHP rescue scene: Rosalind Lloyd as Jenny Skellen:
The Final Option - Mews Scene - YouTube

Actually, Stanleyville had fallen to the Simbas, who were holding large numbers of European hostages there and at various outlying missions. The Congolese gov't sent an overland force led by European mercenaries to the town and also to clean up the missions, and when the Simbas started murdering hostages, the US Air Force used C-130s to drop Belgian paratroops onto Stanleyville at about the same time Hoare's force got there. They easily defeated the Simbas, but lost quite a few of the hostages. That's the story he tells in his book.

I've read all of these books and seen the movies and the Lewis Collins movie. Collins was/is a reserve SAS trooper as well as an actor.

I especially recommend Wilbur Smith's, "The Train From Katanga", later re-titled as, "Dark of the Sun." (Also the movie title although the movie has also been released as, "Africa Ablaze.")

Smith has also written other books featuring mercenaries, inc. the recent one I'm reading now, "Vicious Circle."

If you aren't familiar with his writing, go to his colorful site and read about him and his books. I've read him from the first, and he's still holding his own for the most part, although well into his 70's. Many of his books are set in Africa and have hunting themes. A good one long those lines is, "The Golden Fox."

He also has some historical novels that are not especially accurate, but which are stirring and entertaining.

The books sell very well on the world market, and he and third wife Mokhiniso (born in a former Soviet Republic) have homes in London, South Africa, Switzerland, and some other place that momentarily escapes my memory.

If you ever have the opportunity to see a selection of his foreign covers (anything but UK or South African), you're in for a treat. They are colorful and many.

Ahhh now I remember hearing about that. Heh heh, that would make for a great movie as well and by that title as well. Muchos Gracias for this though.

I wonder who the "new"Mercenaries are? and what they are called?

Ah danke for this as well. Im trying to remember the name of a major incident that took place and I remember that Higgens (of MagnumPI) had mentiioned it in an episode or two--which was a series of real incidents. Hang my lousy memory though. Id loveto reador seemore on the above--as well as possible Amer advisors there as well.I wonder if Barry Sadler ever operated in that neck of the woods?

If I recall correctly? the Wild Geese dvd does have some history on the term. I need to dig it out and watch it again--probably on Thanksgiving.

Thank you for all this too.My friend Helen who lives in South Africa--wants me to tell her what I want for Christmas--and refuses to let me not ask---so ill have her look for books.

THANKS! Always looking for good leads on books and movies. Loved "Wild Geese". Few movies where you see FALs and Sterlings.

As to Frederick Forsythe: have all of his books, and believe most have been made into movies. He's that good.

"Tears in the Sun" I believe was the Bruce Willis movie. Loved that one too.

I wish they would make Casca--into a series of movies--for my Fiction fix.. No remake for: Soldier of Fortune. I saw it once and wish I could take back that time wasted. Clark Gable was good--but NOT convining as a SoF type.

I saw "Wild Geese" many years ago. Great movie. I'll have to find a copy on DVD now that I've been reminded of it.

For background, I enjoyed Robert Ruark's "Something of Value" and "Uhuru". Those take place during the Mau-Mau uprising in British East Africa but revolve around the same type situations.

Something of Value was made into a movie, but I've never seen it so I can't comment on it.

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John 3:16 .

I was a contributor to Mike Hoare's defense fund. I got a patch and a pretty cool thank you note signed by Mike.
Some years later I found a Yahoo group on the Wild Geese and actually corresponded with Mike and a son. Mike is 95yo now, and interestingly enough (given my occupation) he was a certified accountant before becoming a Merc.

That Mau Mau uprising thing was what I couldnt remember when i posted about the Magnum P.I. reference. Muchos Danke.....

I think being in touch with him would be akin to like the Gent I was once in touh with and friends with--before he passed away in 1999. If you ever read Devils Guard by George Robert Elford-I knew and was friends with--the gent who the book was about. I still remember his first phone call to me--which was when he called me up on request of another vet friend--who asked him to do so--who was: Hans Goebeler-of U 505 fame.

Hans had a distinctive German accent--though he hadnt been in germany since 45--and I still remember the first words too. He called me-I answered--he said m name adn told me what hans Goebeler had requested of him--sensing how saddened I was to hear my friend had passed away--he cheered me up with a funny joke about monica lewinsky. We had been planning getting together but this Hans--passed away later in 1999.You could hear in his voice--howmuch he wanted to come and check out and fire--my Mauser Sniper rifle.

I saw the movie once years ago and didn't much care for it. But IIRC, Kruger was a Boer (South African) who wasn't real keen on rescuing a black African and was only in it for the cash.