I find this hard to believe, or at least understand. The woman had a concealed gun permit and while shopping the 2 year old reached into her purse and pulled the trigger, killing her.

The part I find hard to believe is what was she carrying? A 1911 load w/o a safety and a hair trigger? No two year could pull the trigger on a double action or even on most single actions.

The kid might have played with toy guns and knew how to cock and fire one.

OK, here's one from two weeks ago -
Philadelphia woman pleads guilty after two-year-old fatally shoots his sister | US news | The Guardian

A two year old climbs up, picks up a 357, cocks it and shoots his sister.

It's not about knowing how to do it (though that's another puzzle); every two year old I've known or seen doesn't have the strength to cock a gun or pull a trigger. I don't think their stubby little fingers could even managed cocking a revolver.

Looks like there's at least two of them that could and did.

Exactly!! While raising my four kids, I learned to never, repeat never, underestimate what a two year old is capable of doing.

This story just broke today, and illustrates another hazard of off-body carry, no holster, and general carelessness.

2-year-old accidentally kills his mom in Wal-Mart

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Stay protected my friends.

I have always urged my lady friends NOT to carry in their purse. The purse is what the thief is after. If he gets the purse, not only does he have your money and credit cards, but he also has your ID with your home address, your keys and your gun.

In my experience, two year olds learn faster than teenagers. Locking up your weapons when not carried and using a safety or empty chamber when carried are required when your children are around. You cannot hide a gun in your house, or on your person from a two year, any more than you can hide a steak from your dog.

That's the danger of getting too comfortable around firearms: complacency sets in. Nothing bad has ever happened, therefore, nothing bad ever will happen.

It's also the same in dangerous professions. Talk to track maintenance people at the railroads or rapid transit systems. It's not the new guys on the job that let down their guard and are introduced to the bottom side of a train but mostly the guys doing it for ten years or more.

Tragic and unnecessary death.

A firearms instructor asked a woman friend of mine, "Will you have your purse in your hand or on your shoulder all the time?" The lady had to admit that was most unlikely.

I know there are purses designed for concealed carry, and one of those might have saved this young mother's life. A holster might have done the same thing.

I still don't really trust any form of off-body carry for men or women, if for no other reason than speed of deployment of the gun.

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Oh well, what the hell.

OP? can you send a link telling that the firearm was a 1911? without a safety and a hair trigger.
What I see is:

"She had a concealed weapons permit. Miller said the young boy was left in a shopping cart, reached into his mother's purse and grabbed a small-caliber handgun, which discharged one time."

A tragic accident for sure. A two year old can not with any understanding purposely shoot and kill anyone IMHO.

It was an accident that should have been avoided. Sooner or later something like a lipstick was going to get jammed in the trigger guard and something bad would happen.

We who have and carry weapons have a huge burden of responsibility for the safety of all around us. I really get upset at those who poo poo those who do safety check on the gun videos. I do not mind being reminded of gun safety ever, however many times. I like it fresh in the front of my mind, especially as I grow older. I'm sure that anyone who has been responsible for another being hurt or killed by their negligence
has paid for that mistake many time over in their own minds and hearts. I'd much rather have the weight of being safe on my shoulders than the weight of guilt.

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Endeavor to persevere. <><

I'm glad to hear about others mistakes and willingly admit my own. It reminds me how a person that is usually responsible and practicing safety can glitch for just a moment and a moment is all it takes.

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"

The are any number of striker fired handguns with an easy to pull trigger. A Jimenez comes readily to mind. I actually have one, surprisingly works fine. But the safety is easily swiped off and the trigger pull light. If one was carried with a round in the chamber, I could see it happening.

However, extraordinary bad luck must have been a factor for the child to hit anything and for the wound to be fatal on top of that. Most handgun wounds, 80 odd percent, are not fatal.

So far the news articles I have seen on this have not stated the specific handgun involved, nor whether or not the gun was holstered. The victim was grossly negligent but her death is still a tragedy. I wonder how the child had access to the purse in the first place. I guess she kept her purse in the shopping cart seat along with the toddler. If this is the case she really was unbelievably careless. Off body carry increases the risk dramatically for a negligent discharge but I guess this is the way many women who carry think they are avoiding the problem of "dressing for the gun". This incident will undoubtedly give support to those who believe that average citizens are not qualified to carry a firearm and that only the "trained" police should be given this authority.

I have 18 month old twins that can pick up heavy objects weighing half their body weight. It's amazing the things little kids can get into. The 2 year old may have been closer to 3 as well.

This is not an accident, more like negligence. Still sad though now that the kid will not have a mother when growing up.

James

The news report this morning I caught said that it was in a custom concealed carry purse she'd just received for Christmas. Spoke about her being a young engineer with a promising future.

Prayers for the family during these trying times.

Though I am not aware of the specific details of this incident, my thoughts, alone, would get me sent to ban camp if the mods could read my mind. I shall therefore withhold further...

Be safe.

It was a Glock....
News didn't say what caliber.
Another reason that woman should not have a gun in a purse or pocket book.
Local paper just went on what a great person she was and a 2ed Amendment CC with her husband who just got her that pistol.

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Only difference Fool/Mule-ears

Agree with not having a gun in a purse.
My wife has a Kel-Tec .380 in a holster that fits under her blouse.

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Only difference Fool/Mule-ears

I was very depressed when I heard this this morning on the news. Evidently happened in a Walmart in Idaho. News mentioned more than once the mother was a "Responsible" gun owner, and had a Carry Permit. It was mentioned the gun was in her purse, in a special compartment for concealed carry in a new purse she had received for Christmas.

My question in this tragedy is what kind of handgun was it, and how did it get a trigger so light a 2 yr old pull it.

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H Richard
SWCA1967 SWHF244

Horrible accident. Don't know details but it should be in a holster. I bet 95% of women carry in their purse. Most women are not going to throw on a iwb and go shopping just ain't gonna happen. I said most cause someone here will come along that their wife carries in a shoulder holster with 14 xtra mags. Just a tragic accident.

Cannot vouch for the accuracy of what I read on another forum, but it said the gun in question was a SMALL 9MM Glock.

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14 S&W Revs none with locks!

STMC(SW) mentions it's a Glock. I'd venture a guess it's G42. Their latest model and in .380 and it's small. A 2 yr. old could easily manage a Glock trigger. The news this morning told of this incident and then proceeded to review all the child involved AD's resulting in death since Noah built the ARK. What a sad situation.

Some reports are saying it was a concealed carry purse; who knows if she was actually using the compartment, and if she was it didn't make a difference leaving it and her child unattended (again, according to reports).

A terrible and avoidable error in judgment -- against the odds, everything that could go wrong did.

I wonder how this will explained once the kid has grown up? that will be really tough

I dont want to pass any judgment in a time like this but, but nearly every child will pull the trigger on a gun if they can pick it up. I have seen it happen, so do you really need a loaded chamber in Walmart? You can jack the slide in less than a second if you feel there might be danger and I doubt if any young child can manipulate the slide on a Glock.

Concealed carry citizens are not cops, and it actually wouldn't bother me if every concealed carry license required the chamber to be empty. If you feel a threat you can chamber your piece and quickly leave that area.

Do you have a link to that story. I live near there and was searching for some details.In particular what type of pistol it was. I met a friend in CDA for lunch that day. They just had an oil change prior to lunch. I suspect they were very close to that Walmart when it happend, no mention of police or other indications of a problem.

Training Training Training! So sad and tragic, I have to think also so preventable.


STMC(SW) mentions it's a Glock. I'd venture a guess it's G42. Their latest model and in .380 and it's small. A 2 yr. old could easily manage a Glock trigger. The news this morning told of this incident and then proceeded to review all the child involved AD's resulting in death since Noah built the ARK. What a sad situation.

I dont want to pass any judgment in a time like this but, but nearly every child will pull the trigger on a gun if they can pick it up. I have seen it happen, so do you really need a loaded chamber in Walmart? You can jack the slide in less than a second if you feel there might be danger and I doubt if any young child can manipulate the slide on a Glock.

Concealed carry citizens are not cops, and it actually wouldn't bother me if every concealed carry license required the chamber to be empty. If you feel a threat you can chamber your piece and quickly leave that area.

Then the arguement becomes,why do you need a gun at Walmart, and eventually "why do you need a gun at all?"

Best not to go there...because when you need a gun, odds are you really need it and now.

The problem is leaving a toddler un attended at Walmart combined with an apparently new pistol and carry system that the woman wasn't familiar with.

I have five young children. There are any number of ways for them to kill themselves and others in a Walmart. Pulling down heavy objects, poisons, corrosives, sharp objects, blunt instruments (hammers are just laying out in a bin). Watch them and keep them close, and it doesn't happen. Slack off, someone gets crushed under a display of soup cans.

Does a Glock not have a safety? I've never owned one so don't know.

Bob


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Here is a link to the local paper story

Gun that toddler used to shoot mom was in purse's holster - Spokesman.com - Dec. 31, 2014

No mention that is was a Glock so I would like to see some confirmation that is was.

Sad thing to have happen.

Pete

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Don't tread on me

I've checked the Couer d'Alene free press and all three network news websites. No mention of the make of the handgun so far.

Will advise if I find any information on it.

Pete

PS - something like this sure makes you review how you handle your own firearms in any given situation.

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Don't tread on me

There isn't what would be considered a manual safety like on a 1911 or Beretta M9; there are three "passive" safety systems -- a small trigger atop the trigger that has to be engaged for the main trigger to work, and two internal ones related to drop safety.

A Glock is like a revolver in that not pulling the trigger is the safety.

If the threat isn't immediate and either mortal or grievous in bodily harm and you have no practical means of escape, pulling and chambering simply because you feel threatened is also called brandishing and felony menacing; leaving the area means you were able to retreat, hence pulling the weapon wasn't justified to begin with and you can add fleeing the scene to the list of crimes being committed by the self-defense minded citizen.

Also, how would the "no round in the chamber" solution be applied to revolvers?

As for general carry condition, that's outside the scope of this thread and debated endlessly. Suffice to say that GatorFarmer covered it well: in the unlikely event one needs a gun, one is likeliest to need it instantly.

Carrying in a purse has limited utility.

A 2y/o has unlimited potential.

No 2 y/o could pull the trigger on my M&P9, the damn thing has a 7.5 lb trigger pull!

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I'm 67. I don't do timeouts.

Definitely. I think a gun in a purse is probably a bad idea given there are probably lots of other stuff in there with it.

My mother has told me often about the time I almost shot her. My father was a LEO after work one day le laid his 38 revolver on the kitchen table and left the room. I. as a very young child about 2 or 3, climbed up onto the table. When My mother saw me up on the table she started over to get me off of it. I had the 38 in a two handed grip with two fingers on the trigger/ According to my mother my father grabbed the gun and me from behind. As a result of that day My father never again left his gun where I could get at it. I in turn have been very careful to keep my guns away from my kids when they were little/ As they got older they were taught about guns and firearm safety. I know a 2 year old could shoot a glock. The mod 19 that I own has a very smooth and somewhat light pull. I hate to here stories like this one, so sad for everyone involved!

Apparently they don't work. A manual safety might well have prevented this tragedy.

Bob


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Pete

Thanks for the link. I likewise was searching for specifics. I was in CDA a little later. My friend had an oil change at facility across 95 just north of Honeysuckle. At lunch (12:30) no mention of the event.
I certainly have to agree... Very Sad.

I have some LEO current and retired in Kootenai county. I will try to get more detail from them


Here is a link to the local paper story

No mention that is was a Glock so I would like to see some confirmation that is was.

Sad thing to have happen.

Pete

A couple at my church had their 3 year old grandson over and there was a handgun in the bedroom and the wife put it on top of a tall cabinet so the child couldn't reach it. The husband is in law enforcement and was not home, and the child somehow got the gun and died.

You can't be too careful!

*
This been shown repeatedly to be a fail on many levels. The pistol needs a round chambered at all times unless out of service such as putting it in the safe or doing maintenance or dry practice. Period. One cannot be assured of circumstances that will allow for chambering a round; might already have an injury by the time of completing the draw, might be using a hand at contact range to hold off an assailant. Anyone who is not prepared to carry a firearm ready to shoot is not ready to carry a firearm. Period.

I don't care what make or model it is - you carry an M10, load all 6 holes in the cylinder; carry a 1911 or BHP, chamber one, apply the thumb safety, add a round to the mag - anything other than cocked and locked is unsat, regardless of the ghastly training from Uncle Sam that has been inflicted on so many; the Glock gets a round chambered, too. (With a Glock, and some other pistols, a holster that properly covers the trigger area is not an option.)

I have to be careful about critiquing purse carry lest one of our female members comes uncorked on me. However, for most purposes, off body carry like that is not merely a fail; it is clownshoes, negligent, disgraceful, and worse. I'll admit, I do not care what the fashion police say - I dress around the gun. Being armed AND READY TO FIGHT is not optional - being stylish is. Any other viewpoint is indicative of really skewed priorities in dire need of un(screw)ing. IF she was going to use a purse for carry, she need to have it on her, with a rigid adherence to priorities.

The purse HAD to have been in the cart and not in her control for this to occur. Unsat. Not at all acceptable. While one could assert that a 2 YO should not have been so out of control (my wife has, while discussing this incident), the ability of a small child to do and try things that were not foreseen is amazing. Answer: preclude the danger in other ways.

She was not ready for responsibility of being armed, and she died for it. The child will some day grow up and become aware, and live with this. We will all pay politically for this type of event. All of this was preventable, but occurred because the seriousness of the decision to be armed, and the duties that come with it, were not given their proper priority. If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem. If you are this cavalier about your decisions about being armed, change, or don't be armed. If you are in a position where you can influence people, teach that same standard. Nothing less is appropriate.

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NHI, 10-8.

They work perfectly -- for their intended purpose.

A manual safety might have prevented this tragedy. Proper firearm care definitely would have...

Another terrible story easily averted by proper firearm care.

Love the title "Idaho shooting victim supported gun rights"

What in the hell does that have to do with anything?

no I didn't read the article..

It occurred to me today, while playing with my own two and a half year old...that it would be possible to train him to shoot his mother deliberately, albeit not with a true understanding of it. So far all the media outlets, and we folks here, are proceeding on the theory that it was an accident. But what of it wasn't? The purse was said to be a gift from the husband, possibly the gun as well. How long did he have that purse holster in his possession? Did he, like I do, have lots of alone time with his child? Did he have a motive - another woman, life insurance, etc - for wanting his wife out of the way?

Using simple rewards like praise and candy, and either an unloaded gun or a stand in cap gun, someone could teach a child where the gun was in the purse, how to draw it, and to "kill mommy". Morbid. But possible. I bring this up as my own children will try to "shoot" my wife with a toy gun at times if upset with her, and have to be taught not to do this. But if the behavior was encouraged and not discouraged....sure would look like an accident, wouldn't it?

So before we ague about the accident, are we 100 percent sure it was one?

I am not going to add fuel to the discussion with additional speculation, but simply say this: The odds of such a tragedy happening, factoring in the age of the child, proximity of the firearm, etc. make this situation one completely determined by fate. It was not a matter of when the young woman was going to be taken, but simply in what manner.

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I'm with the banned ...