My dad was a WWII photographer and in his travels he acquired many war souvenirs. He passed away about twenty years ago and left me his WWII collection. I have a P-38 with the holster and mags, over a hundred b&w photos ranging from Winston Churchill, to Battle of the Bugle, to the Nordhausen Concentration Camp along with all the atrocities. Also have many Nazi armbands and medals.

The main item I have is a Nazi banner that has been signed by about a hundred of my father's fellow soldiers. Each signed their name and hometown, some included the date. I also have a 1978 Jacksonville, Fl newspaper article that has a picture of my father displaying the banner along with many of the pictures he took. There is no doubt the banner is the real deal. I say this because I have been told that there are many fakes out there.

I feel that this banner is a one of a kind, the only one like it in the world and it was captured in a pivotal point in the history of the modern world. Maybe I think too much of it because it was brought home by my father? I do not know, but I also do not know what I should do with it one day before I go meet my maker. I have no male offspring or heirs of any kind, absolutely surrounded by females. They have no interest in the items. I do not want to sell them as I feel that would cheapen the memory of the story of my father's contribution to the war effort. Just cannot see selling the items and using the money to pay the electric bill.

I did go on the website for the WWII Museum in New Orleans and they do not take flags anymore. I also looked on some other museum sites and they sell items if they are not going to use them.

Do any of you have any ideas or maybe you have crossed this bridge before.

Any input is certainly welcome.

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Perhaps call around to other museums, such as divisional and regional ones.

Local VFW or American Legion?

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Eccentric old coot

Might be hard to find places interested in accepting Nazi flags and banners. Have you thought about contacting a Veterans Of Foreign Wars (VFW) maybe in your father's hometown? They might be interested in putting those on permanent display. If you included a brief history of your Father and his service they may wish to display those items. I am sorry for your loss, and I'm sure your Father had some very interesting stories.

Try this place:


Motts Military Museum, Inc.
5075 South Hamilton Rd.
Groveport, Ohio 43125-9336
[email protected]
Phone: (614) 836-1500

Unit signed captured nazi war flags are not rare. I see them for sale all the time on various militaria sites. that said--keep the items, sell them or give them to someone who will appreciate them and YOUR dads history. Signed flags like yours sell for several hundred dollars. The P-thirty eight seems to average about a grand at gun shows i go to. Photos are priceless items as seen through YOUR dads eyes ::if he took those photos?:::

this was my second thought - museum was first.

BTW, that flag has a hand-sewn circle--means its pre-war made and more desirable than the screen printed.

Most Armies or Divisions maintain some sort of historical record of their actions in battle. I would contact your father's unit and see if those significant artifacts could be included. The fact that "real" individuals in those units who actually saw action there are represented should be a strong selling point.

I appreciate your father's service in that most important conflict and hope you can find a satisfactory location for his records.

Bob

Sell them to a collector who'll appreciate the items and keep them together.

If you know what unit your dad was in perhaps you can contact them and find out if they would accept them as part of their history.

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Thread Killer.

friend has a pawn shop and loaned on a banner , anner was defaulted by the owner it was signed by 3Rd army personnel .The value is low ,most wanted are AUTOMOBILE flags and banners .How do you display a banner 49"x 14' . I think he is going to donate it to the PATTON museum. Banner was defaulted by the owner

Exactly. This would be my suggestion, too. An official display at unit HQ could be a priceless inspiration/motivation for future soldiers...and there's a lot of regimental pride among units. I'm sure they'd be interested in memorabilia that shows the unit's history. And your dad's photos would be valuable, especially if they showed actions and soldiers involved.

EDIT: Let me add this: The photographs alone would be priceless to me. Photographs will deteriorate over time, so unless you have the negatives, I'd give serious thought to scanning them and putting them on disk and a hard drive somewhere. You don't mention how many you have, but seriously, you don't want a record like that to just sort of fade away. Shoot, the Smithsonian might want them. And the Library of Congress has a huge collection of original photographs from every war going back to the Civil War, and possibly before. I'd explore those options before I'd give them to be displayed in some little VFW or American Legion hall.

Most importantly, These things need to be kept together.

History is being lost everyday. Sadly.

We have the command of such things as the alphabet and now we have this interweb thing. Put this stuff on record.

Every little piece that hasn't been been separated should be recorded in history.

Your Dad was trying to record history. Plus bring a little home.

His photos might be one of a kind and quite telling.

But I feel every time a collection is broken up and sold we have lost more of history and the chance getting the straight story.

I remember playing with such artifacts/collectables when I was a kid in the sixties. Too bad they got lost and worn outplaying Army but we sure looked the part.

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Dum vivo cano

The 82nd Airborne has a very extensive collection of WWII artifacts and in particular, Nazi memorabilia. That would be a terrific repository for your collection, and you can be sure it will be well cared for and preserved. They are located at Ft. Bragg and the contact address can be Googled like everything else.

I know a museum in N. Texas that I'm almost certain would be very pleased to have, preserve, and pay tribute to your Dad's service to the Country.

Still, I'd think one closer to your home would be just as glad to take care of these items for the future.

Make a project out of it. See if you can track down anyone still alive that originally signed it and pass it on to them.

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Old Guys Rule!

OK, but the downside of that is any survivors are up in years by now - and what will their heirs do with this stuff? Personally I'd find a good home for it myself - peace of mind, you know!

You might contact The Legion of Valor Museum in Fresno, Ca. They have very good displays & admission is free to all.

http://www.fresnovetsmuseum.com/

Did You try the Army?
They may like to have the Flag for Their Museum.

Thank you all for the replies. The military bases sound like great ideas.

I did check Fort Jackson where the 39th Regiment is based, but their museum is completely based on their training. Well OK then.

I have loaded some pics:

1- Winston Churchill inspection the 39th Regiment troops.
2- General Harry "Paddy" Flint
3&4- Murdered Jews and the townspeople of Nordhausen being forced to dig graves to bury them.
5- The last for the best. Nazi troops surrendering.

I hope I do not offend anyone by posting the pics.

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There is a military museum near here. My son and I have "loaned" them several items. Don't give to museums. As stated above, when you give them something it is then their property, and they can sell it if they wish to. Before we loan anything we make sure it is something that they will want to display. If not, it stays home. We just renewed the loan of an inert panzerfaust for another five years. There was a museum featuring soda memorabilia. Many very valuable items were given to the museum. The owner of the museum died and his family sold the contents for a very large sum.

If you should decide to keep it, and just stick it in a closet or drawer, it will probably deteriorate in time. One solution would be to place it in a frame and hang it where it won't get direct sunlight.

Since it is quite large, that would probably be a fairly expensive option.

If you should decide to sell it, there is a specialized web site where you could do that. See
Axis History Forum - Index page

The 39th Infantry Regiment was part of the 9th Infantry Division, but they, 9th ID went inactive in the early '90s. I think, 2nd BN 39th Infantry Regiment carries on the history.

If you don't want to sell, I would think they would appreciate history.

I wouldn't do museums as theres a good chance that none of that will be displayed and will end up being broken up and sold.

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Thread Killer.

Have you tried the Holocaust museum? Holocaust Encyclopedia ? United States Holocaust Memorial Museum

I presume you expect to have quite a few years left in your life? Hang onto the items and preserve them. Scan the photos, and the negatives if your dad was able to keep them. Look for a worthy person, museum or association. If you dad's unit has a website, it will most likely have someone acting as unit historian. Talk with that person and see if other flag signers have surviving family. You may have to interview to find a suitable person to leave the items to

Charlie Sherrill is correct: if you give it to a museum, they can sell it at a whim.

Sell it to a collector who would appreciate and preserve it.

And the logic that tells you a collector could not also sell it is...?

I stress what all he said. This stuff needs to be kept together as a grouping and for historicals sake. Most of the time--when donated to museums--the stuff is never used-taken to a back storage room and will only collect dust. All museums will star selling things off after a period of non-useage. I know, as i worked for two years in history collections at the cc museum of science and history here where im at.

No offense on my part but ill have to correct you on one thing. There is no such thing as nazi troops. They are German soldiers.

Quite corect on the museums prt.

Also, as an aside bit-the ninth ID was the division that Steve McQueen and Fess Parker were in, in: Hell Is For Heroes.

True on many accounts. However, If I had the money? id buy this stuff and keep it. About half of my collection of both German and Ameican militaria--was given to me by the vet who originally eaned his stuff.

I certainly understand, but selling/giving it to an individual only postpones the resale and dispersal of the information for the rest of that individual's generation. That person's heirs won't have any link to the incidents depicted and will dispose of it in the easiest way for them. The further the items get from their time of origin, the less chance that they will survive unless they are properly kept and maintained by professional curators.

It is correct that museums do deaccession some materials that they can't use. But if the material is given to a museum that is closely related to the topic (i.e. the Units involved) they are more likely to keep it and even if they store it out of their usual displays, it is still available for future researchers. Those stored items are often rotated in exhibits as needed.

It should also be attributed to the person who filmed it with the request that his name be displayed with it. Seems like a no-brainer to me.:roll eyes:

Bob

Hi Bob, mostly true. However, all museums follow his practice--when doing rotations. A rotated display oly means they are doing anothe and specilised display due to a specialized even effecting the area or a date. Those displays and those displays last only up to six months. Our local museum has a vintage weapons collection that would make most people drool over. However, none of those eapons have eer been displayed here--at least i the last 40 years.

I often went to the main curator of our mueum and inquired why none of those weapons were ever on display an only got a BS reply.

Many museums have either eliminated or reduced weapons displays due to rampart "political correctness". Additionally most are overloaded with weapons and routinely de-accession them and sell them off. The last thing I would consider doing is donating possessions of this type to a museum. At best they'll go into storage at worst they'll be sold off. I run across this situation quite frequently so feel free to contact me if I can be of assistance.
You best bet IMO; is to find a collector who is also a researcher and a documenter so at least the history of your items won't be lost.
I strive to document each and every firearm or piece of militaria that comes into my collection and in the course of doing appraisals encourage others to do so as well.
Jim

There is absolutely no need to apologize or be concerned about offending anybody. This is history through the eyes of those who made it and everyone should be aware of it and experience it, if we want to be sure and not have to re-live it. I too have an SS helmet and binoculars with the SS and death head emblems that are family heirlooms. Fortunately they will go to my son, the fourth generation veteran. Good luck in finding a home for your fathers collection.

Tell you one thing...your dad knew what he was doing with that camera in his hand. That's a killer shot of General Flint. I'd like to know what kind of camera he was using. I'm wanting to say it was a typical Army type camera, maybe a 4x5 Speed Graphic, or even a Graflex. That'd really be something if you still had his camera!

But again, if the few photos you've posted are any indication of the overall quality (not to mention the provenance), I'll repeat my assertion that they are priceless for any number of reasons.

You know, you could scan them, get them all digitized, and have them turned into book form using something like Blurb...it'd be surprisingly inexpensive, once you got them scanned. You'd have to devote a good bit of time to the scanning, making sure you got the resolution right and captured the tonality of that wonderful old black and white film, but wow, it'd sure be worth it. To me, at any rate. I mean, this isn't a project you'd want to do down at the Walgreen's on one of those cheapo photo copying thingys.

It was the 95th ID.

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Thread Killer.

I feel your pain. My Dad was also in the Battle of the Bulge. I don't have any flags but I do have many photographs that he took from France, Belgium and bombed out Germany. I have a Behorden Model .32 and a Sauer and Sohn double barrel shotgun that he sent home. Also have all of the letters that he wrote to my mom.

Unfortunately, I also have no sons and my girls don't seem interested in any of these items. I too wonder where they will end up upon my demise. Sad to see them end up in a landfill somewhere.

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James Redfield
LM #497

Then take it upon yourself to find a good home now, while you have the control.

I am curious to which atrocities he photographed and if he was close enough to photograph them, why he did not stop them rather than photograph them? Or did he just have pictures of people in rather poor condition that are often claimed to be proof of atrocities?

Let's not turn this into a "was the Holocaust real" thread.

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Thread Killer.

Written above: I am curious to which atrocities he photographed and if he was close enough to photograph them, why he did not stop them rather than photograph them? Or did he just have pictures of people in rather poor condition that are often claimed to be proof of atrocities?



So, I am not sure whether you are calling my Father a coward a liar or both?

Would you like to clarify now that you have made this personal?

Ouch!

You don't believe there was a genocide?

Ignore history and watch it repeat it self.

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Dum vivo cano

Careful guys this good thread about a good soldier will get locked up!!!!!!
Let's not second guess anything. That was war time!

As Ringo and many others have said, these items are virtually priceless. Certainly to you they are. Having known several WW2 vets and one who helped liberate a camp, I do not know which one, gave me an SS collar tab from the Totenkopf Div. unissued. It is striking and he brought a good amount of these items home. I had it for over 20 years but circumstances forced me to part with it,....... it was far more valuable than I thought. Many frauds out there so when you have the real McCoy, it's very valuable and be wary of just anyone.

Thanks to all the members that offered their help with this matter. It is a shame we had a bit of "thread drift" at the end but I just consider the source and remember there are all different sorts of human lifeforms at every turn in your life.

I know that my Father was a great man. In the war, he took his orders and made his contribution to the WWII effort as directed by his officers. He came home and married my Mom and worked for 36 years at the same job with the local newspaper. He raised a family with morals and values. He was married to my Mom till the day he died. He had many lifelong friends that turned out in mass at his funeral. He had created the American Dream for his family and that was good enough for him. Good enough for me too.

Knowing my Dad, if someone had said something derogatory to him or accused him of something, he would have said to them "This is a free country and you are entitled to your opinion". I wish that more of that mentality had rubbed off on me, as I tend to have much lower flash point when provoked. He once told me that he had seen too much death and violence in the war and he was done with it. Strangely enough, he also had said the the smells he encountered will be with him for the rest of his life.

What I have figured out, with all of your help, is that the items will either be in the hands of a collector, a military museum or my wife and later my daughter. Selling them is not really an option as the rent is paid and the dogs fed. A museum does not look good because when you get down to it, they are a business that has to have $$ to operate. They may obtain some of this $$ by selling to collectors.

The last option is to teach my 16 year old daughter what these items mean and to keep them safe for her children to see. They may be interested in what Great Grandpa did a hundred years ago. I think that is where I will go with this, after all who will take better care of these artifacts better than my family. It would be a great project to scan the pics and find out about the men that signed the flag. Maybe I can get her to do that as a college course project.

Anyway, thanks to all that offered your opinions.

The pic below is Corporal Edgar W. Hopkins

Sincerely, Karnivore

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I was close enough.

Get in touch with this guy. He's decent enough to tell you straight and not try to screw you over. I'd keep all that stuff in the family if I were you. It's a really cool item and valuable, but not as "rare" as you might think (I think...). I wonder if your dad was ever part of a "Reproduction Unit". I met one guy who was part of an Army Air Corps Reproduction Unit tasked with documenting atrocities and interviewing soldiers, survivors, enemy witnesses, etc. before the Nurmburg trials. He also said he photographed all of Yugoslavia from the air in case we had to go to war with them over survivors from downed bombers. Didn't get a chance to talk much. Need to call him up one of these days....

Also, a note to you about museums that I learned from my bud at that website below: Many veterans and their family will GIVE their stuff to a museum. Some reputable and some questionable, with the expectation that their loved ones stuff is going to be lovingly displayed for all to see for many years. This is not true. They can only display so much stuff and oftentimes, even the reputable museums will sell stuff to get more desirable stuff. And this is not to mention the crooked employee who has no qualms about selling stuff out the back door. Be very careful in talking to the guy who says: "This museum that I know of would love to have it....." They sure would!

Keep that stuff in the family. You never know when your kid or grand kid or great grand kid will turn into the "family historian" and document everything and give that stuff the respect and place it deserves in the family. There are a ton of family items from my grand parents and great grandparents that got sold along the way at garage sales that I wish I had the opportunity to have. And none of it was so priceless that it had to be sold to pay the bills. It's just that nobody ever thought anyone wanted the stuff.

TRIGGER TIME - 101st Airborne WW2

If you can post a photo of the back side? I can easily tell you if real or not? The way to check is to see what kind of backing it has, the stitching and the folds of the black material itself. If good? your looking easily at a $300-to-$500 dollar collar tab. I have two unisssued tabs myself. One for the 11th SS Division: Nordland, ad the other is for the 27th SS Div--SS Sturmbrigade Langemarck.

Karnivore I think you are on the right track keeping it in the family. Even though your daughters may not show interest now, age changes a lot of people's perpestice and interest. How many of us hated history class but now are facinated with it? Also a major anniversary date re-peaks interest. Look at how much more interest there is in WWI now that we have hit the 100 year anniversary. So be patient and trust your kids, family history is priceless.