ASTOUNDED AT THE PRICE OF HALON 1211 FIRE EXTINGUISHERS TODAY!

I have always been proactive when it comes to preventing and fighting fire in my home. Thankfully I have never had one, but I am prepared. I bought mine years ago and don't remember what I paid for them - but nothing like they are selling for today!

I own three Halon 1211 units, (a 15 lb, a 12 lb and an 8 lb). I also have two 25 lb air charged water units and one 20 lb CO2 unit in the garage. Today I was looking for an additional 12 lb Halon 1211 unit only to discover they have been discontinued and are only available as refurbished and refilled units. A 12 lb unit of Halon 1211 is selling for about $1,200 - $1,300 bucks!
Apparently, even though they are about the best extinguishers one can get, they have been deemed bad for the ozone layer and are no longer in new production.

They have sort of come out with a substitute version called Halotron. While the Halotron is not quite as good for fighting fires but still excellent, it is supposed to be more environmentally friendly. An 11 lb extinguisher of that is around $450 - 550 bucks depending on where you get it.

You can get fire extinguishers very inexpensively but they are mostly filled with monoammonium phosphate which is very good when it comes to putting out A, B & C fires, but makes a huge mess to clean up afterwards. The Halon and Halotron totally evaporate and leave no mess behind - hence the allure. It's hard to believe that being a conscientious person costs so much! If I ever have a small electrical or grease fire I don't want the fire extinguisher to cause more damage than the fire itself.

Well, if nothing else I am now aware how much Halon extinguishers are worth and apparently if unused, the gas is stable and will not "brick up" like chemical units do. Fire extinguishers are probably one of those items most people don't even give a second thought about and just pick up a cheap one at their local Home Depot or Lowes. I have also seen quite a few adds for Company's wanting to buy your old unused out of date Halon 1211 units as they can recycle the Gas and legally sell them.

I guess I will opt to get a Halotron unit which at least still works very well and does not leave a mess behind. Still way expensive!!

Just curious as to what some of the Professional Fire Fighter's use and what their feeling are on this subject.

They were made to protect
Electronic equipment not
People. Probably not best
Choice for your house.

Halon is a CFC or a HCFC the same as R-12 refrigerant (trade name FREON). In 1992 as the refrigerants became controlled substances, so did Halon. It takes a EPA permit a lot higher than my Refrigerant License to work on, buy, or sell Halon equipment! They are prohibited for all firefighting use except central computer spaces!

I had half a dozen small hand held extinguishers I kept in the house, garage, and camper and 1 hung on my "B" tank (torch for plumbing and A/C work). They were great! They also doubled as a close quarters defensive device; just spray in a muggers face and down he went (maybe he would never get up again!) Halon absorbs/changes the oxygen in the air to render it unburnable and unbreathable. One good whiff and you are out, one good lung full and you're gone for good!

The small hand held extinguishers I had in the late 80's were expensive at $6 or $7 but 1/4 the size of a dry powder ABC type. They had a long shelf life of around 12 years maybe some were 15years, but anything you bought in the late 80's or early 90's is way past dependable. Your best bet for free disposal would be contact you fire department, or a fire extinguisher service. IT A FEDERAL FELONY TO THROW THEM AWAY! I would assume the standard $25,000 fine is involved too.

I never saw a US made Halon extinguisher! The ones I saw were all made in Israel. Had one of the college kids from church selling them as a scam job they hustle college kids into, they were charging about $45 each for the $8 size. I called the BBB, but 2 years later the regulations went into effect.

Ivan

Go ABC and worry about tbe mess afterwards. Modern dry chemical is very effective and can knock down a good volume of fire with proper application.
Extinguishers for a Type "K" fire, (cooking oils) are available if that is a big concern.
CO2 is an option if you truly need to minimize the mess but CO2 has some limitations as an extinguishing agent.

I vote for ABC units, working smoke detectors, and good fire prevention practices.

IMHO, Halon and other specialty agents are not worth the cost for the average homeowner looking to protect regular household items.

I WOULD NOT WANT a Halon in the house.
ABC is sufficient I have 2 in garage 1 in house. I do have a 2.5lb halon in vehicle.

Want to be in open space or have SCBA on if your in a confined space with Halon.

Or you may extinguish more than the fire.


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Years ago, when I was going to school, I worked doing security work. One of our accounts was a large pharmaceutical company that had just built a large, secure, "computer room". The old stuff, complete with massive machines and spinning tape wheels. The room had been fitted with a Halon dump system for fire protection. Before it activated, an alarm system was supposed to sound, giving you time to get out before the Halon dump, as it was said to be fatal if you were in the room when it happened. I had no reason not to believe them.

I have also heard that dry chem, while very versatile, can cause significant damage to electronics and wiring.

I keep a couple dry chems in my house, one in the camper, and both a dry chem and a co2 unit in my boat. Never needed any of them. We carried dry chem in our cruisers back in the 1980's. I learned pretty quick that one small dry chem does not do much against a car fire, where fuel and rubber is involved, unless you get there as it is just starting.

Larry

Fishinfool said:

I keep a couple dry chems in my house, one in the camper, and both a dry chem and a co2 unit in my boat. Never needed any of them. We carried dry chem in our cruisers back in the 1980's. I learned pretty quick that one small dry chem does not do much against a car fire, where fuel and rubber is involved, unless you get there as it is just starting. Larry

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I read an article about a 100+ car pile up in the fog in Southern Mississippi or Southern Alabama in the 90's that a woman was pinned in he car and it slowly caught fire. Of all the cars and pick-ups close by not one had a crowbar or a fire extinguisher! Their punishment for their omission was they all had to listen to her screams as she perished! If everyone carried a small extinguisher, together you can save lives! I have at least 1 in each vehicle and every on floor of the house.

Ivan

I worked with a Capt who had more **** in his pickup than we had on some rigs. He was just insane.
One of my rare Thanksgiving(Christmas)Days off, my choice as I worked for the guys with young kids, we were over our good friends house when turkey dinner caught fire in the oven. I grabbed a salt shaker, poured it on the grease, sat down and dinner was served shortly.
Never had anything in my house, still don’t. I have insurance. Probably not a bad idea to have something I guess.
Do what makes you feel secure.

WTN1271 said:

Go ABC and worry about tbe mess afterwards. Modern dry chemical is very effective and can knock down a good volume of fire with proper application.
Extinguishers for a Type "K" fire, (cooking oils) are available if that is a big concern.
CO2 is an option if you truly need to minimize the mess but CO2 has some limitations as an extinguishing agent.

I vote for ABC units, working smoke detectors, and good fire prevention practices.

IMHO, Halon and other specialty agents are not worth the cost for the average homeowner looking to protect regular household items.

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The old CO2's worked GREAT at chilling beer in a pinch........or so I heard

One extinguisher in every bedroom, smoke alarms as directed by my daughter (the firefighter).
We stopped putting Halon on boats a few years back. One lungful in an engine compartment and it’s all over rose.

WTN1271 said:

Go ABC and worry about tbe mess afterwards. Modern dry chemical is very effective and can knock down a good volume of fire with proper application.
Extinguishers for a Type "K" fire, (cooking oils) are available if that is a big concern.
CO2 is an option if you truly need to minimize the mess but CO2 has some limitations as an extinguishing agent.

I vote for ABC units, working smoke detectors, and good fire prevention practices.

IMHO, Halon and other specialty agents are not worth the cost for the average homeowner looking to protect regular household items.

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I do understand the pluses and minuses of Halon 1211. The places I have them are full of electronics and to use dry chemical extinguishers to put out a fire would more than likely damage or ruin what I am trying to protect.

There are also many myths about Halon and most of what I have read says that they are mostly myths - and not fact. From what I have read, Halon 1211 is the recommended type of fire extinguisher to be used on aircraft. May have now been replaced by the newer Halotron - not an FAA expert.

As I stated in the original post, I do also have CO2, water /compressed air units for different types of fires. Each one is clearly labeled for the type and usage and the different types are dispersed where they would most likely be needed.

I am wanting an additional Halon - or now the new Halotron type for my Train Room that is filled with my Lionel Train collection and most likely the type of fire in that room would be electrical. Using a dry chemical fire extinguisher would probably ruin most of what I am trying to save if an electrical fire broke out.

HALON 1211

I've got a couple old Halon 1211 fire extinguishers that I've been putting off servicing and returning to service. This post got me thinking about them again. The big computer room at my former employeer was protected by a built-in Halon system & I heard stories about it back then, in the late 80's.

Here's a couple items I found doing a search on it:

- Halon is a "Clean Agent." The National Fire Protection Association defines, a "Clean Agent" as "an electrically non-conducting, volatile, or gaseous fire extinguishant that does not leave a residue upon evaporation."

- Halon has been used for fire and explosion protection throughout the 20th century, and remains an integral part of the safety plans in many of today's manufacturing, electronic and aviation companies.

- There is no cost-effective means of safely and effectively disposing of the Halon that has already been produced, therefore recycling and reusing the existing supply intelligently and responsibly to protect lives and property is the best solution.

- The EPA recognizes that Halon remains the most effective "clean" extinguishing agent available, despite its ozone depleting potential, and there are no federal or state regulations prohibiting the buying, selling or use of Halon extinguishers.

- Due to its effectiveness and relatively low toxicity, the FAA continues to recommend or require Halon extinguishers for use on commercial aircraft.

- While the production of Halon ceased on January 1, 1994, under the Clean Air Act, it is still legal to purchase and use recycled Halon and Halon fire extinguishers.


Adverse health effects and symptoms:

- Halon 1211 is a simple asphyxiate. The gas is heavier than air and may accumulate in low spaces causing a deficiency of oxygen and cause rapid suffocation. Symptoms include drowsiness and unconsciousness.

- If people are intoxicated with fluorocarbons, strenuous exercise can result in arrhythmia.

- May cause frostbite in contact with skin or eyes.

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Hell, I remember back in the dark ages when I was an HVAC helper we used to use 22 to blow out drain lines Remember going to the supply store and getting those puke green cans of the stuff. Also remember working on roof top chiller towers in the French Quarter back in the day and seeing all sorts of nastiness in hotel windows and on lower rooftop swimming pools

Sounds like the Halon or the newer version and/or CO2 would be your best option for the trains. Dry chemical definitely will make a mess and also bonds to electronic components effectively ruining them even if they are not directly damaged by fire. Hopefully you will never need to use any of them but sounds like you are well prepared.

A for what it's worth story about Halon. Back in the 80's I was involved with a project at Electric Boat. They had a plan vault, all the original blue prints and plans were stored there for every boat they ever built from day 1. We installed a deluge halon system in the vault. I cant remember how many gallons the tank was that supplied the system, but it was as big as a car. When the installation was complete, we had to do a full function test...that means setting it off and flooding the vault with halon. Everything in the vault was then covered in plastic sheeting. So we tripped the cross zone smoke detectors and the countdown began, closed the vault door and waited. After a predetermined amount of time, the door was opened and it looked like a plastic confetti bomb went off, the halon froze the plastic and it shattered in a million bits. Good thing the plastic was there or it would have done the same to the plans. Anyway, that's how electric Boat protected their historical blue prints from fire, with halon.

I worked in an industrial setting where they had Halon systems in several areas. CO2 systems in others. There were warning buzzers that sounded before the Halon/CO2 dump, prominent signs about leaving immediately and yearly training on the need for prompt evacuation for both. Areas that couldn't be left without oversight had duplicates in other areas and SCBA breathing gear (yearly training required) in place. The SCBA allowed oversight to continue until the backup was manned if it wasn't already.

If you've got that much electronics in one area, I'd suggest a local master electrical breaker and the ABC extinguishers others have suggested. The cleanup is cheaper than either SCBA or a funeral. I'd expect your homeowners insurance would cover fire loss regardless of whether it was caused by fire or what put the fire out.

FWIW, carbon tetrachloride was commonly used to put out electrical fires at one time. Then someone realized that heating carbon tet produced phosgene, a poisonous gas. Time marches on.

When I used to race, I never saw any racing car that didn't have a Halon fire extinguisher.

As a retired licensed sprinkler fitter I've installed Halon systems many years ago.
I remember when they first started to faze them out.
I was installing a back up wet system in a guard house that also was used to store paper files When we tested the system a cast iron fitting had a sand hole that sprayed onto the Halon smoke detector.
The in house electrician Thought he could dry it out but instead set off the Halon system.
Talk about clearing a room fast.