I have read and been part of several discussions about what is the best gun for self defense against a bear. This is what happened to my son on Thursday. He hunts for a living for a hunting magazine. He was hunting a black bear with his bow. He stalked to within 15 yards of a bear. Shot it. The arrow going from front to back and from right to left quartering away shot. The bear got up, yes it was bedded, grunted and looked back at my son and charged. When the shot was made with the bow my son immediately put his bow down and got his Springfield XDS 45 acp out and ready. Standard procedure for him. This time he used it. He had two shots. The first hit a leg the second at 8 ft. he hit it between the eyes. My son jumped back and the bear landed on his bow, dead. The bear was old and in poor condition. Probably part of the reason for the attack. My son said he barely had time to make the second shot.

The arrow did the job and would have killed the bear left to hemorrhage.

I do not believe the 45 acp as a bear cartridge. I carry a S&W 629. I still will carry the 629. But the 45 acp did the job at 8 ft. The best bear gun is the one that saved your butt.

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NICE SHOT.
From what I've read their skulls are pretty thick. Good thing the angle wasn't shallow enough for the bullet to glance off the bear's skull.
Did your boy have a spare pair of briefs handy? Most people would need them after that experience

Smith & Wesson 629 Classic 5" .44 magnum loaded with Hornady 300 grain XTP is what you need!

I'd clean up that skull and keep it on the desk for a wicked cool trophy. I do note however that the shot was a little to the left however......

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Forum consigliere

We discussed the fact the bears head was down when he made the shot. A perpendicular shot to the head. It was very fortunate it all turned out well for my son. I carry a 629 and bought both my sons a 629 to carry while bow hunting and in the back country. But the 629 is a bit more cumbersome and heavier to carry while bow hunting. He is now starting to think differently.

The first thing he said when he called me was "well this is the second time in my life I had to change my shorts".

See: HandLoader Magazine #223
In summary:
1- not much time.
2- penetration paramount.
3- too much recoil prevents follow up shots.

Suggestions from Alaskan guide. Been there really!
.357 DA/SA revolver, 3”>4” (what his fishing guide daughter carries)
200 gn wide flat nose cast lead bullets. Not hard cast. Loaded to about 900>1000 FPS.
.44 Mag if very practiced with recoil. Same type bullet.

This is ‘self defense. NOT hunting!!

See: Beartooth & Cast Performance

Wow, wonder how long it took for the adrenaline to stop pumping after that. One fine shot under pressure!

Lucky for sure. Some states prohibit bow hunters from carrying firearms?

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No baby we aint

Impressive work by your son. Glad he is okay.

(He sure has one helluva story for his hunting magazine employers. They oughta give the man a raise or, at a minimum, a hefty bonus!)

Bella knows.

As your son now knows, the answer is.............

"The gun I had with me, that let me walk away alive Alex"!

Congrats to your son who stayed cool, and did what he needed to stay alive.

Sounds like Dad did a mighty fine job, raising a very good man!

Any consideration for a .460 Rowland?

Years ago, Forest Service published a study on what was the best gun for bear defense (1978, I think). Their conclusion was only the 458 or 460 has sufficient punch to approach 100% (high 90's) then 375 H & H (low 90's) and lower down from there. Forty-four mag was down in the 75% range (NO PISTOL WAS RECOMMENDED OR AUTHORIZED). I am currently certified by my Federal Agency for defense use of spray and firearms=(Just completed my annual refresher). Minimum use is a heavy 30-06 load==minimum recommended is a 375 H & H. Norma had an "Alaskan Load" that was 220 gr 30-06 with a round nosed heavy steel jacket.

The Danish Sirius dog sled patrols in Greenland can carry pretty much whatever they want; Their choice s a Glock 20 in 10mm (my personal choice, next to my 454). Their rifle is a modified 1917 Enfield in 30-06 with two 200 gr soft points (for musk ox) and two 220 gr FMJ (for polar bear).

Personally, seen over 2 dozen griz, charged once by a black bear (seen 200+). My choice is still spray. However, spray may not work as well on a bear defending itself!

Oh good - a bear thread where someone actually provided relevant photos! Thanks for that, jspick!

Couple points that I'm sure most of you know - black bears and brown bears (in all their myriad different subtypes, not to mention polars) are different critters with different MOs and we all want to understand these differences when in their country.

We all know how shot placement and adequate penetration are vital. I'd probably feel best with a deep-mag semiauto .308 (ball) or 12-bore (buck) if charged by a bear. But as to handguns?

I know guys like to carry around those short barreled Ruger Alaskans in .454 Casull, but I also know how difficult they are to control. I don't care how much you practice, you're not getting a lot of follow-up shots with those Casull rounds. Honestly, I'm not sure how much the extra bullet mass and velocity help - I'd think a reasonable-to-shoot 255-gr LSWC .45 Colt at 950 fps would penetrate just fine to "the good stuff" that you need to hit and would be simple enough to empty as fast as any other big-bore gun. But there are still only six rounds on board.

Your son's .45 ACP (ball?) clearly worked fine for him. I'd note that 9x19 ball is a penetrating son-of-a-biscuit, and that it's worked fine in the hands of Alaskan LEOs dealing with griz. (I don't feel like running the search for the new stories, but they're out there.) Personally, I can put a lot of 9mm ball on target in the time that it takes me to empty a big bore revolver. And my semiauto nines reload in a twinkle, too.

It's pretty much never an issue anyway - in the twenty+ years I've been on gun forums, I've found bear threads to be eternally popular but not all that relevant to most folks, and they generally turn silly. Have a great weekend!

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Now go make God proud...

When hunting with a bow it is always comforting to have a buddy along with a shotgun full of slugs lol. While I like the 45 Auto and it's heavy bullets I would be worried about adequate penetration of the shot isn't in the head. I'm not sure what the correct gun would be, I guess that will change with each hunter. (I still go with a buddy and shotgun!)

Obviously he did well since he is alive and the bear isn't. Scary stuff right there!

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Freedom is never free!!
SWCA #3437

IMHO In handgun calibers, 44 Mag. In rifle calibers, 308 minimum.

The load my son used is a 225 gr. hollow point. Not a good load for bear, BUT the bullet went clean through the skull and exited out the throat. At 8 ft. The bullet did go all the way through the skull. But the bears head had to be close perpendicular to have that happen. I think the thing to consider here is the bear was very old, in bad condition and already had a very fatal arrow through it. And it is a black bear and not a heavier built griz.

BearBio. Good to hear from you again.

A 460 Rowland is a very good cart. But it is harder to recover for a second shot. And it is not a common cart. I personally carry a 44 mag. minimum.

I totally agree in having a person with a shotgun with you while archery hunting, but the biggest factor in not getting attacked in griz country is having a person on look out WHILE the elk or deer is being cleaned.

Thanks for all the replies and yes my son was raised in the woods and at a early age was carrying a 357 while hiking the mountains.

I like the size of that hole.
Looks like a third eye

Pat McManus once wrote about this is Outdoor Life. He said the best bear gun was the biggest one you could shoot accurately over your shoulder while running as fast as you can.

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That's gonna leave a mark.

Looks like the hole for a third eye and maybe a little luck and a cool head made things turn out well.

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Just a shooter

Glock 20, in 10mm. If it's good enough for Demark's Siriuspatruljen (Sirius Patrol) on Greenland's polar bears, it's probably good enough for other lesser bear critters.

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Thread Killer.

There really is no "best" firearm for anything and anyone who says otherwise is most likely very young and foolish.

To presume that there exists a universally perfect firearm for self-defense against any or every living thing on Earth is to subscribe to the demonstrably false belief in the concept of a one-size-fits-all firearm that anyone can handle reliably, regardless of the multitude of physical characteristics which differentiates one from another.

In the end, all anybody can do is research the subject thoroughly, then make the choice which suits them best.

That being said, I would also like to state my personal belief that the vast majority of folks on webforums who argue that .44 Magnum is the absolute bare minimum when it comes to viable bear defense cartridges and that folks ought to carry something even more powerful than .44 Magnum most likely have never seen a bear outside of a zoo before, much less ventured into the wilderness where Grizzly Bears roam.

In reality, Bears have been taken with just about every caliber firearm, including .380 pocket pistols and .22LR rifles. Now obviously that doesn't mean that one should go poking around in bear country armed only with a .380 pocket pistol, but it does go to show that bears are not the legendary killing machines which are all but impervious to everything but the most powerful of firearms.
In reality, a good .357 Magnum Revolver with heavy hardcast semiwadcutter bullets is adequate for self-defense against even the largest of bears, hence why 10mm Auto has become such a popular cartridge in Alaska for bear defense, and why some Fish & Game wardens carry as little as .40 S&W. (At best, 10mm Auto is only marginally more powerful than .357 Magnum, and most factory loaded ammo is only marginally more powerful than .40 S&W, which is roughly equal to .45 ACP.)

If .45 ACP weren't enough, then it would have never been able to penetrate that bear's skull, so your son was better armed than many folks would assert.

However, I've said it before and I'll say it again, if I were to venture into bear country, then I would carry my Mossberg 590 Shockwave 12 Gauge loaded with Brenneke Black Magic Magnum Slugs.
Why? Because I can handle it, so there's no valid reason for me to carry less. So carry the biggest gun with the biggest bullet you can handle and leave as little to chance as possible.

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Shooting Comfort is bilateral.

Shotgun with slugs would be my first choice.

What do you mean, silly?

I'd just like to ask a follow-up question about the best handgun to carry when bow-hunting elephant ....

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Did she use 20 shots out of a beat up FN L1A1 like most poachers?

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SOS USA

What did the injuns do when all they had was bows and arrows???????

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Forum consigliere

Dirty Harry:

So, what Pat McManus said.

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That's gonna leave a mark.

They killed pioneers and stoll their guns and liquor. Thus maintaining arms and fire water equality with the long knives.

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SOS USA

A few random comments:
What did the Indians do? Climb trees!

What guns work best? Whatever works for you in that instance! My grad professor stated that my thesis only showed/proved what occurred during my study on urban bears in that location at that time! All you could do was infer a result under different circumstances. The more studies, the more likely you were being correct!

Use of a 454: I can get the first two shots off accurately with my Reeder custom SBH (which is all you are likely to get) THEN I start to flinch or rush my shots. BTW: I recently started using the Glock 20 with heavy hard cast in bear country.

Health report: Still in the wheel chair but starting to walk a little. Go back to work (limited duty) after the Fourth. Then retire two weeks later. The wife told me the University is interested in talking to me about doing presentations for school kids after I retire!

I'm your huckleberry:

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My honorary nephew has a Finnish Lahti 20mm anti-tank gun. It even has skids on it to allow the reindeer to pull it in the woods.

Well, this guy, a Hunkpapa Lakhota named Rain in the Face, killed a few grizzlies by hand with a knife in close quarters combat. See those claws hanging around his neck? It would have been disgraceful to have worn those unless they were taken up close and personal.

He is also reputed to have been the warrior who dispatched Custer.

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Five screws and 3-1/2 inches.

Great reflexes under pressure! Were you the one who posted a few pix of a trashed garage door compliments of a grizzly a few years back?
That was very impressive too!

I was "safety Officer" for my office for over 10 years (collateral duty)==I reached out to ask other CSOs what was used at their office for bears and Defense of Life and Property==all agreed upon the Brenneke slugs in 12 gauge (spray for defense; slugs for taking down proven problem bears)

Most Federal Agencies (all the ones I know of) do not authorize handguns except for LEOs

If I was bow hunting bear, I'd feel comfortable with someone standing on my right with this.

30-06 pistol

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SWCA 3563
10mm aficionado

I love to bear hunt and I carry a .44 magnum where allowed. I hunt in Maine a lot and the outfitter I use states that the state wildlife officers consider a .44 magnum to be a hunting gun so it could not be carried loaded after shooting light has passed. I noticed that most of the guides carry .45acp or .357s.
When I hunt in Maine, that is what I carry. My first choice is still the .44 magnum.

I guess it depends on the species and location. Around the East here, it's Black Bears and I am comfy just carrying my .357 wheelgun for the one-in-a-million chance I am charged by one. When I make my occasional trip to fish with my buddy who lives in Alaska, I won't carry anything less than an 1895 Marlin loaded with 405 grain hard cast blunts. Even with a big bore lever gun in hand, a lower 48 guy like myself is continually on edge when sharing space with such monstrous critters. It makes a trip to "use the outhouse" so much more fun, though

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Smith. And Wesson. And Me!

Well, no.

By almost all accounts the Indians didn't even know who they were fighting until it was all over. I would be surprised if most of them could have picked G.A. out of a line up.

Rain-In-The-Face is reputed to have cut Tom Custer's heart out and ate it because of a personal feud between them (Custer had imprisoned an humiliated him).

In later years Rain at various times said he did eat Custer's heart and that he didn't.

Most scholars think it's a toss up whether he did (eat the heart) or not but say it would have been completely in character.

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Retired Career Security Guard

The penetration is solved by using the LSWC harder cast bullet-even in an auto loader that will process them. A 240 grain LSWC over 10-12 gr of Unique in a 44 mag should drill a fine hole in most objects. I agree with Bear Bio-spray is best.

Yes that was me with the trashed garage doors. This same son was charged by a griz behind our chicken coop and put two 20 ga. slugs into it. Killing it. That was in 2002. Both sons have had several grizzly encounters while bow hunting elk here in MT.

Is this a serious question?

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Vote Responsibly

Edited, Post is not relevant.

Know what bears do in the woods, so I avoid the woods with bears in there.

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Carpriver.

And from a range of 8’.

Tisk tisk

What’s wrong with that?

I’ve been known to do it myself.,

The same was told to me by a guide when we were fishing in Alaska last year. A gun shop owner in Fairbanks told us the same advice.They said a Glock 20 with the heavy Cor Bon load is their go to gun.

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SWCA#2288
SWHF#407

Hang on to your bear spray!

I prefer to stay way from grizzlies if at all possible. I hunt in a grizzly area however and they think a gun shot is a dinner bell. I carry a 4 inch M-57 at the least. I do prefer a 12 ga with as many slugs as I can get in it. At the present time I have a Benelli M-1 super 90 that holds 10 rounds. I used to have a Mossberg M-590 Marine pump. It held 9. Not a bad gun but heavy. They say bear spray works too and I have been known to carry it

Why does anything as big and mean as a bear need a gun for defense?