I thought this sounded like something I would enjoy reading..so I went to Amazon, the place that supposedly has everything...and all I found were used editions ranging from $71 up to $234. IMHO that is just plain ridiculous for any modern paperback...especially a used one. It seems that Amazon does not have any for sale, but rather Amazon-affiliated private sellers (aka scalpers) are hawking their copy at elevated prices in search of the one rare person who will fork out that kind of money. As for me, I don't want it that badly. Does anyone know where I can get a reasonably priced copy of this book? I know it may currently be out of print, but it hasn't been out of print that long.

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Smith. And Wesson. And Me!

Harness Bull Hardcover – 1937
by Leslie T. White
$97

Police books are unobtanium after they go out of print.

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Made it, Ma! Top of the world!

Thanks. I didn't realize that. Funny thing is, with today's technology, books can be printed on order. I've bought a few that way. The text is digitally stored and when a person places an order, they are printed out and put into a binder. They aren't high quality or super durable, definitely not collectibles, but they are cheap and do the job.

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Smith. And Wesson. And Me!

I have it on Kindle—$15.49 to the penny (I just pulled up the old order on Amazon). I can’t recommend the book more highly. I genuinely wish I could have met him, his book is wonderfully written quite funny in parts. It would make a great movie or cable television series.

PS. I also highly recommend Tales of A Modern Day Gunfighter.

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No school like the old school.

If you don't have it, might I suggest

"Guns, Bullets, and Gunfights: Lessons and Tales from a Modern-Day Gunfighter"

- Jim Cirillo

Try the Iliad Book Shop, 5400 Cahuenga Blvd, N. Hollywood CA 91601, Tel: 818 509-2665.

This is my favorite used book shop and I always find used books there when visiting my son in Burbank. The store is about the size of a big-box pharmacy and they have thousands of books. They just might have it.

They have a large section on true crime but frankly, I never thought to look for police instructional books. Hard to say what category this book would fit in. I was there in early December and the Cirillo book was not on the true crime shelves.

Try the publisher, Paladin Press. Paladin Press - Publishers of the Action Library - Hotels Worldwide. Published 2009.

Thanks everyone for the input. It would be nice if whomever holds the copyright on it would print another edition. I visit a lot of used books stores and am pretty confident I'll get lucky and stumble across a copy some day...but it could be a few years before I find one.

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Smith. And Wesson. And Me!

Used paperbacks sometimes are quite expensive.One about Errol Flynn was a shocker when I last checked. Thankfully, I'd bought a copy from an average used bookstore that didn't know the value.

Could not find the kindle edition on amazon. Would gladly pay $16 or so for another Cirillo book.

Paladin Press is no more.

Longtime gun publisher Paladin Press closing after nearly 50 years

I know the feeling. I've gotten a lot of good deals like that at bookstores. Fortunately, some places don't use eBay auction results as a guideline for pricing their own books.

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Smith. And Wesson. And Me!

I just checked and it looks like it is no longer available on Kindle either! I am glad I bought my copy when I did.

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No school like the old school.

Check with your local library. If they don’t have it, there used to be a feature available called inter-library loans. I don’t know if it is still used but I’d be surprised if it isn’t. In the past I obtained several books that way and the cost to me was minimal. Two of the books I requested were sourced internationally - England and Italy.

You might try Abe Books and eBay. No guarantee prices will be any less than Amazon. Abe Books is basically a website for other booksellers. Sometimes the price spread among sellers for the exact same book is very wide.

I just checked Abebooks - they have several copies of Stakeout Squad but prices start at $74. But his Guns, Bullets, and Gunfights book is considerably less (starting at $15).

Yup. Libraries still do interlibrary loans. Definitely worth looking into, as I've gotten to read some hard-to-find books that way.

I know I have one of his books, I believe it's Guns, Bullets, and Gunfights: Lessons and Tales from a Modern-Day Gunfighter. It's been a while since I've read it. FYI, I just checked Amazon, and the Kindle version is on sale for $9.99.

I felt the same you did when one of my favorite gun books, The Snubby Revolver, by Ed Lovette, went out of print. I bought a copy when they were still widely available, only to find out on this forum that used copies were selling for north of $50. Fortunately, the book he wrote with Dave Spaulding, Defensive Living, is available on Kindle for $8.29. I highly recommend this book.

If you would forgive a bit of thread drift, I met Jim Cirillo several times when I worked for a time at DeSantis Holsters. He was an acquaintance of the company president.

Despite many brushes with death in the stakeout squad, Jim ultimately lost his life in 2009 when his vehicle was struck broadside on the driver's side by a tractor trailer somewhere in upstate NY.

Thanks everyone. Looks like for now I will have to settle for his "other" book...which I'm sure is just as interesting. Later this week I'm trekking to a local hole in the wall bookshop which has produced some obscure and interesting stuff the previous times I've visited. Maybe I'll get lucky.

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Smith. And Wesson. And Me!

Would certainly be interesting to know more
of his final days.

From Jim Cirillo :

Jim Cirillo was a noted firearms trainer and former member of the NYPD's elite Stakeout Unit (often called the "Stakeout Squad"). He died on July 12, 2007 as a result of an automobile accident versus a semi tractor-trailer.

At about 7pm on July 12, Cirillo turned onto New York State Route 8 in Madison County, New York, just west of West Edmeston, New York, directly into the path of the truck. The truck struck his car on the driver's side door. Cirillo died at the scene.

500,
I have a copy of Guns, Bullets and Gunfights. Also, Tales of the Stakeout Squad. PM me if you are interested. Dean

It was there about 12 hours ago when I checked, but gone when I checked just now. Maybe the ebook contract is being renegotiated with Amazon and it’ll pop back up...?

Thanks for the heads up with this post. I just ordered his two books thru my local library.

PM me your addy, I'll mail you mine. I've read it three times, anyway. Time to pass it on.

I don't remember which book or article I read it in, but this is my favorite
Jim Cirillo story:

A reporter was interviewing the Stake Out Unit Commander. The men in
my unit always issue the standard challenge. "POLICE! Drop your
weapons." And they only open fire after the gunman turns on them with
gun in hand.

Jim Cirillo, who was sitting there, interjected: "It's like some of them
don't hear us."

Commander asks: "Why do you think that is Jim - stress of the moment?"

Cirillo replied: "Nah, I think it's drowned out by the sound of our gunfire."

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In Omnia Paratus

I thought Dillon used to carry this in their book section. Now I'm on the hunt.

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Goal Life Member
Traveling Man

This book should be required reading for every gun fancier. For example, we see countless debates on this forum, and I am sure every other one related to guns, about caliber. There is a thread going on right now here with a hot debate over foot pounds, energy, etc. It even has mathematical equations and physics lessons!

I just read this from Tales of s Stakeout Squad:

“Even the medical examiners are under the mistaken taken impression that with one shot the guy goes down. It just doesn't happen. I've seen guys shot with 12-gauge slugs, 00 buck, #4 buck, .45, 9mm, .38 caliber, .30-caliber caliber carbine, .223, and only on a few occasions did they drop on the spot. And those were shots that were brain or spinal column shots. If you don't hit the right spot, he's not going down. You can hit the heart and it depends on when you hit the heart as to whether you're going to stop him. If you hit the heart when it's full of blood and you cut the blood flow to the brain, he'll fall right down. If you hit the heart right after its pumped the blood, they'll have a few seconds to do a job on you-and they'll do it. They don't stop moving at the first shot. Of course, the MEs would tell us we were pumping slugs into them so fast that they couldn't stop moving.”

It is truly a great book.

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No school like the old school.

I haven't read the book but I remember someone mentioning that Cirillo generally used a Colt or S&W .38 Special revolver with full wadcutter (target type) cartridges. Is that correct?

He carried wadcutters in his 2 inch back-up 38. His his S&W duty revolver, department issue at the time was the 158 grain lead round nose.

“Nevertheless, Cirillo carried ammunition in which he had more confidence, such as custom-loaded hollowpoint 110-grain Super Vels, traveling at 1,125 fps.”

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No school like the old school.

I bought the Kindle edition last year. The Amazon site just now showed the Kindle format to me, but when I clicked on it, it took me to the other book. As they can‘t run out of “Kindle copies”, it has to be a contractual issue. Since Jim Cirillo isn’t the actual author, but a guy named Paul Kirchner, and the original publisher is out of business, the rights to the book may be subject to some complications.

There is some good information in the book but I found it to be a dull read. I wouldn't waste my money on buying a copy, I'd get it from the library.

I got mine last year on Amazon. Gave it to a friend that gave it to a friend and now it's gone forever.

My favorite story from the "Stakeout Squad" book
is of the harbor patrol officer who kept his
revolver in a bag of oil so it wouldn't rust.

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Ubi Est Mea

I can believe that. I once thumbed through a copy of Stakeout Squad quickly and got the same impression. Might be better considered as an investment.

I have quite a few books in my gun/ammunition library which have achieved that status. I can hardly believe that those books that I paid $10 or less for years ago are now being listed for hundreds of dollars on eBay, Abe Books, etc.

Could somebody scan their copy and make it a .pdf that we could have? Or would that violate copyright law?

It most certainly would.

The fair use exception in copyright law for “criticism, comment, scholarship, research” is pretty broad and covers pretty much anything we post here in discussion threads, including copyrighted photos from the internet, probably our most common “offense”.

But reproducing an entire work for distributing without paying is a classic case of copyright infringement, even if done for no financial gain.

Cirillo used an S&W M&P with 4" bull barrel. Now known as
Model 10.

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In Omnia Paratus

Paul Kirchner, author of "Jim Cirillo's Tales of the Stakeout Squad" here. I haven't participated in this forum for 10 years or so. I moved on to other things.

When Paladin Press closed up shop at the end of 2017, they returned to me the rights to my books, sent me the print-ready pdfs, and offered to sell me all remaining copies in stock at my author's discount of 50%. I bought all the copies, maybe 120 of them, and started selling them on Amazon, first at $25 ea, IIRC. They were selling so fast that I realized I would soon run out of them, so I gradually bumped the price up until I was selling the last 20 copies for $50 ea. I just didn't feel that I could ask more than that with a clear conscience, whatever the market would bear. I now have two copies of the book and that's all.

I had planned to put it up on Amazon with their print-on-demand option, since I had the so-called camera ready pdfs. The trouble is, my pdfs didn't match Amazon's template and I don't know how to fix that.
Furthermore, I didn't want to reprint the book without fixing a few errors and adding some additional material. But that means recreating the whole book, page by page, which I don't know how to do, so I got discouraged.

So for awhile now I've been revising the book and adding a lot of additional information. I had taped the SOU members I interviewed and, listening to those tapes again, am finding things that would probably add value to the book. The original manuscript was ~53,000 words, currently it's up to ~70,000. I'd like to put it out again as an actual book, so I can include photos, of which I have more now, and footnote references. I would expect it can be available for a reasonable price.

There's something I'm trying to track down. I asked Massad Ayoob, who didn't know, and he suggested I try the S&W forum. Here's the question: Is original SOU member George Bauer still alive? Does anyone know that? He was retired in Florida when I interviewed him and he would be in his late 80s, maybe 89, if he's still around. I used a fake name for him in the book at his request, for safety concerns, but if he's passed on I would prefer to use his real one. He deserves to be honored, even if posthumously.

Yo, Paul!

Any way you could make a PDF of the book available w/o violating copyright? Some of us want to read it but it's pretty much unobtainium . . . . like 9mm ammo right now.

Paul, your work is valuable. There is a strong demand among gun enthusiasts for your book. We have others among our forum members who have published books.

Why not post a thread asking about how to publish a book?

My guess is someone here could help you with Amazon publishing, and others with how to self publish the book and sell from your home. I would also think that there would be publishers out there who would publish and distribute it for you for a share of the profits. (If you go that route, best get a lawyer to help you.)

About the format, I believe there is software now to easily convert the format to whatever format you want. (If you have a paper copy, using optical recognition software — OCR — you can convert it to easily manipulated text. Here is one example that purports to be free: Free Online OCR - PDF OCR Scanner and Converter Online. There are many.)

Haven't read it, would like to and paying a reasonable sum to the author is only fair.

Good luck finding a means to put out an updated version.

I think I got my copy for about $15. I was looking around for it to send to the OP but couldn't locate it. I vaguely remember giving it away. It's a good read, I don't know how anyone could find it dull!

While looking for it, I found a book by Jeff Cooper (Principles of Personal Defense). Out of curiosity I checked what it now sells for on amazon -- they have one copy and want $638.50 for it!

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You're shy a few manners.

Paul I have enjoyed all your books I could get ahold of. Please don't get discouraged with the second edition.

Cooper's "Principles of Personal Defense" is a classic and should be kept in print. It's a short book but full of great insights and observations. I am in touch with Jeff's daughter Lindy Wisdom and will ask her if it can be republished.

Paul:

So when all that went down, did you also pull the Kindle version from Amazon?

I have the book on my Kindle, bought from Amazon certainly longer ago than 2017. It seems to be no longer on offer.

I don’t buy print books anymore, but if you get the expanded and updated version ready, I’d certainly be interested in buying another e-copy if you make that part of the plan. Thanks!

Bill Jordan's "No Second Place Winner" is on PDF I wonder how they did that without violating copywrite laws? Is there a statute of limitations?

For books published in 1978 or later, it’s 70 years from the death of the author, so that covers Paul’s book.

I think Jordan’s book is from the 1960s, and the rules were different. The author, their estate, or whoever else holds the copyright to a book can also always decide to put the work into the public domain. You’d have to research the details.

Of course, that PDF could also be unauthorized and thus illegal, and nobody has bothered to sue yet. I think in such cases, especially without monetary gain, copyright violations aren’t prosecuted as crimes, but matters of civil litigation.

[QUOTE=Absalom;140753562]Paul:

So when all that went down, did you also pull the Kindle version from Amazon?
>>>>

Paladin Press took down the ebook versions when they closed up, and paid me my remaining royalties. I felt they always treated me fairly.

My plan is to get the revised text ready for either a print-on-demand version, or perhaps I'll have a run published at my expense, maybe in hard cover. I would also put it out as an ebook through Amazon.

I would like to do the same with my two "Deadliest Men" books and the Bowie knife book, which require only a few corrections. The book I wrote on dueling never sold well, so I think I'll leave it be. (Apparently the topic was not as interesting to other people as it is to me. Live and learn.)

Jim Cirillo was teaching at FLETC when I was going through FITP in 1986. He taught some of our classes and always told stories of his time on the stakeout squad. Jim was really down to earth, always had time for us during and after class. Was genuinely interested in giving us the tools to save our lives in a gunfight.
One story I remember him telling was a time when an armed robber entered a store the squad was in. The individual brandished his weapon and Jim and his partner commenced to unload on him. The guy went down and they kept shooting as he lay on the floor. Jim said every time they shot him he kept moving so being Jim he reloaded and kept shooting.

After the guy had enough they looked the scene over and determined the guy was moving because the rounds were going through him and ricocheting off the concrete floor and coming back up moving his body.

Jim chuckled and said he finally stopped moving when they stopped shooting.

Also had the opportunity to teach TDY with him for a short period about a year after that


Retired Deputy United States Marshal

[quote=pkirchner;140754342]Regarding that duelling book...plenty of folks take chances on cheaply-priced eBooks that would not slap down real money for a hardbound or paperback. If the cost is minimal, getting that duelling book e-book-ready might be worth your while.

Then again, maybe I am one of the few that saw the cheap price and just had to have the combat shovel ebook written by a former Russian Army combatives instructor (translated into English, thankfully).

Hi Paul. I guess you heard Bill Allard passed away last August? What a great bunch of guys they were. I shot once as a 'guest' at Rodman's Neck; felt like I was at home with my friends. Come to think of it, I was! Be safe.

Kaaskop49
Shield #5103

Jim was quoted in gun magazines on more than one occasion. He never lost his love of bullets and ballistics. I remember reading how he thought a full wadcutter in .41 Magnum might be the ultimate manstopper.

Kaaskop49
Shield #5103