Finally bit the bullet and got in the professionals to rebore the attic insulation. Looks like when the house was built in the '92-94 timeframe that they were using some kind of blown-in cellulose insulation. Thing is, as the contractor said yesterday, you still have to get right inside parts of a complex attic to make sure you have insulation where it needs to be.

As the photos he took yesterday show, that didn't happen. Bare ceiling board in a lot of places and insulation that doesn't even come to the top of the rafters over most of the rest. The pitch on my roof is pretty shallow and they used those complicated trusses to make it, so I'm guessing the original insulation "tech" didn't fancy climbing in and around to do a proper job.

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Release the Kraken

A couple of examples of R-49 as it should be.

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Don't see any rafter vents over the soffits. Gable vents instead?

Sorta. I have one vent in a gable end and a large one in the side of the house where the upstairs HVAC lives in a big void. There are also a whole slew of vents built into the roof tiling, the ones that look like mini-dormers.

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Why is the sheathing painted? Was there fire damage?

Sent from my old rotary phone using Tapatalk

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M&P 9

I think you are seeing the radiant barrier paint I had done when I first moved in. The painter did say that the house was short on insulation, I just didn't click that is was that short.

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Reckon they used long enough roofing nails?

I know this won't be any consolation, but builders do that kind of **** all over the USA. Back in the early '90s, a young co-worker with wife and kids bought a modest new home. Over the course of his first year of ownership, he finally realized the builder had put NO insulation in the home. The owner had to fight long and hard to get it fixed. The local builder had a good reputation and is still in business. When I see his sign in front of a house have an urge to cover his sign with one which says "CROOK"!

We've had two different builders of "luxury homes" burn their own home down for insurance money when they got so deep in debt they couldn't pay any creditors. I know the fire inspectors and insurance guys who were the victims...they knew darn well what happened but proving it is difficult at best.

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Bob.
SWCA 1821

We built in 1984 and have had to have more blown in 3 times. That stuff settles every time it thunders. Foam is the way to go on bottom of a roof but it has to be bird and squirrel proof and about $1.50 per square foot but will pay for itself in a few years. From the photos it looks like 1'' foam on top.

I didn't remember seeing anything like these mini-dormers on my inlaw's tile roof in Florida, just soffit vents. Then I remembered seeing something recently like you described, on the stone roofs in France.

To my knowledge there are three types of blown-in insulation:

Cellulose, which is the green or brown stuff that settles like crazy (original in our home);
Fiberglass, what the guy blew in yesterday, effectively diced up batts;
Foam, which is very effective but very expensive. Also, you have to remove all existing insulation before you start. That's a major hazmat type exercise and would have been a class A pain at my house due to the low pitch and roof structure.

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Here's a modern dormer roof vent. I think my house has some concealed ridge vents, too.

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My question about something like that would be: Who were the inspector(s) who passed and signed off on it? Have to wonder if some money changed hands under the table.

Quite likely, and the county inspectors office is always kept short of staff by the county commission. Can't imagine why.

Well, we had this fine example of bribery and corruption in the 2000s and I was reliably informed of two things:

1) It was barely the tip of the iceberg in scope. The strip club thing was a blind to avoid putting every property developer in the pokey.

2) The FBI were informed beforehand of exactly how high in the government bodies of NV they could go. That is, it was not to touch Carson City or get anywhere near the then head of the Senate.

Operation G-Sting - Wikipedia

Later, we had this.

The Harmon - Wikipedia

Yeah, lots of effective inspection there.

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We had the same problem. When we went to settlement on our house, I specifically asked the builder about the insulation in the attic. He assured me that there was insulation in the attic. (Attic access was through a small trapdoor in a closet ceiling.) After we bought the house, I was able to get into the attic and discovered the builder wasn't lying! There was a single roll of pink insulation in the attic but the roll was still rolled up! I changed the attic access to a pull down stairs in the hall and was able to install proper insulation in the attic.

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Bill

I've built houses for 25 years around the Oklahoma City area and we never had insulation inspections until the last few years but they only inspect the walls, they don't come back later and inspect the attics. Based on my research the foam insulation is about 20-25% better than blown in but costs 75-95% more.

I've built houses for 25 years around the Oklahoma City area and we never had insulation inspections until the last few years but they only inspect the walls, they don't come back later and inspect the attics.

I have lived in 4 houses, insulated three attics. Current wife helped me insulate this attic and she was amazed at what we found or didn't have. Cost of insulation was fully recovered in 3 monthly heating bills and 3 monthly A/C bills. We didn't need to wait 3 years to see a ROI.

Electric and gas costs dropped 25% to 35% from previous season.

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S&WHF 366

Sorry, I don't know why, but the way you tell it in hindsight, you really cracked me up.

The problem we have here is the inspectors and plans examiners make the new owners pay for the sins of the previous owners/builders, and the “mistakes” of past inspectors.

Nevada is not the only state to have shoddy or "In & Out"
home builders that short cut corners, in order to make huge profits.

Love how they snapped the joist line for those long staples... !!

I feel sorry for the new house buyers of todays markets.
In some places you can walk through in the stages that it is built, with the good "Guys" but the fly by night guys are wham, bam, thank you and good luck.

Most homes should have material list that meets spec's and that it was installed........
but like mentioned, the insulation is up there in the attic !!

I did 33 years of Heavy Construction and just cringe at what some of the low quality builders put out.

Good luck.

Vegas home builders have a rep for using what's available rather than what is most suitable.

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You will have to excuse my ignorance, but which picture should I look at and what am I looking for.

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I used foam at the Carriage house/Barn at the lake......in the Pa. Laurel Highlands about 2600 ft.

From 12/14/19 to 1/24 its cost me just over $2/day* to heat the lower garage level to 50 degrees. (propane) It's 28x36 x12high.....just over 1000sq ft or 12,000 cubic feet.

With 8ft ceilings it would equal 1500 sq ft.


Originally we were going to use fiberglass on the lower walls ( upper floor apartment was spec'ed to foam)... decided to go all foam.. about a $1 more / sq ft.

Upstairs 1000 sq ft is running about $1.20 a day to hold it at 60 (75%)
when were not there and 70 (25%) when we are using mini splits.

Total $3.25/day..........$100/month.

With summer cooling I'm estimating a 2 year payback... 3 at most.


*Footnote: we also use propane for hot water (tankless water heater) and a gas Franklin Stove/fireplace in the "not so great room" of the Apt. We've used a total of 84 gallons since July 1st 2019.

In my case, I'm sure the inspectors were "paid off". Along with the unrolled roll of insulation in the attic, a few years later we discovered the builder had left all of the plywood sheathing off the house! He had nailed the siding directly to the vertical studs! We had to strip off all of the siding and installed insulating sheathing and new siding. Sure helped reduce the heating bills.

When we were leaving the house transfer settlement, the builder made the comment about clearing $50 with the sale of the house. During the settlement we discovered he had several loans on the house which were paid off by the sale of the house.

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Bill

I'm curious - have builders always been this dishonest, or is it a more recent thing?

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Common sense isn't so common.

Actually it's kinda easy to forget the blown in attic insulation because that's one of the last things done. I've forgotten a time or two when I build houses but I always remember and add it before I sell one. I'm not sure if there are more dishonest people in construction than any other business and like many things, when buying a house you "get what you pay for". I see some new homes are advertised for sale and at a glance they look pretty good, but their asking price is less than my cost. I have no idea how these builders can build them so cheap because I try very hard to keep my costs down since the market is so competitive. They must really be saving money on things you don't see. I will also say the builders who are in financial trouble and having difficulty paying bills are the ones you need to worry about.

There a AAA or top companies that are listed with the Better Business office in your area.

They need "Ata boys" to stay there and just one "oh ****" can remove them if it is not fixed.

References are one way to check out a company and another is if they want
too much money up front or not just for the materials.
NEVER pay more than 50% of the total cost or bid.
That way you have control over them to do the job correctly and ask to see the wiring, plumbing , insulation for your inspection as well as the inspector.

I had my present house built in 2005. My aunt and uncle were retired and came by the job site every day and took pictures. If they saw anything that looked off they called me and I called the general manager and he saw to taking care of it. My aunt and uncle actually became friendly with the workers and the workers didn't act like they felt my aunt and uncle were being overbearing. I did make sure to check out the reputation of the company, including whether they paid their subcontractors on time. Everything checked out, and it's been a great house for 14 years.

I suspect the original insulation was so poor in this house for a few reasons. First is the complexity of the attic and the low roof pitch. It's a bear getting around in there. Then there is the good possibility that it was ready for insulation on a nice sunny day in late June/early July. I'm sure my attic is positively dangerous to inhabit under those conditions. So, the worker probably got up there in the more accessible area just inside the hatch, sprayed some cellulose about for a few minutes and bailed before heatstroke got him.

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There’s really no excuse for poor insulation, if there is a certain area that’s difficult to get to they can always put batt insulation in before the sheet rock goes on then blow the rest in after sheetrock. My insulation crews also use about 50 tubes of caulk and spray foam to get every tiny little crack around doors, windows, and framing before they net the walls and blow them in. A lot of builders don’t do that and they use cheap windows and cheap HVAC units and that’s the main reason people’s bills aren’t as low as they should be.