Is anyone here familiar with Berlusconi Firearms 201 American Way Monroe OH? I can't even begin to explain accurately the purchasing experience that I am still in the middle of and hoping turns out alright.
I was looking for a particular firearm that is no longer made and found their on line site. I sent a chat request which they answered saying that they did in fact have the pistol in stock at what appears to be a very good price and on sale to boot. So far so good!
Tried to call the sales number which is apparently taken down due to them being so busy with sales that the only way to contact them is by CHAT. No recording stating this however. They request that I place an order and that after doing so, they would contact me with additional information and ask for FFL shipping info etc.
Now is when it gets really weird. They tell me that I can not pay by credit card for some reason and that you are not able to use PayPal under goods and services because PayPal will not support firearms sales. You are required to use the friends and family option where I had to send the payment through a private person.
Finally got more than suspicious and sent them a message that I wanted to speak with a sales representative in person on the phone. I guy called me who sounded like he was from India and did not identify himself as being with Berlusconi. I ended up having about three phone calls with Mr. India who I could hardly understand. He was attempting to walk me through the process of making the friends and family PayPal payment.
After the third try, I did get this portion of the transaction completed and did receive two refunds to our account after doing it the wrong way. I sent them a heated message stating that I wanted to speak to an english speaking sales agent that I could understand. Guess who called me back again?
I have received what looks to be official correspondence from Berlusconi with an order and order number for the firearm. I sent them FFL delivery information a couple of times although they had not requested it yet. I also sent them a couple of messages asking if someone would contact me to let me know that the purchase was completed successfully. Just this morning, I received an e-mail requesting the order number which I have sent.
I almost canceled the order several times during the process since the experience just smelled of a scam!
They have a huge web page and appear to be a legitimate business but I have never experienced anything like this. Mr. India explained that due to the volume of calls coming in for firearms purchases, they took down the sales phone number because their representatives could not take time on the phone with individual customers and that is why you can only communicate by CHAT and e-mail.

Sure sounds like a scam to me. Good luck.

The "can't pay by credit card for some reason" is a tip off, I think.

Not to scare you, but just googling the name Berlusconi and firearms produces a disturbing number of articles with references to the Darknet and a “Berlusconi online market” where all kinds of guns are for sale.

I hope it ends well for you.

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Who watches the watchers?

What kind of gun is worth all of that?

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“What you got, ain’t new.”

I called the number given on their website and got " the number you have dialed is incorrect ".

Read the "scam" comments on their page:
Attention Required! | Cloudflare

Sarah and Ray live in Hamilton and Ruthie works in Mason (both about 15 minutes from Monroe). I will ask them (when they have time) to visit and have a look see. I know that may not help you at this moment but it might give insight for down the road.

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Music/Sports/Beer fan

Way too many red and yellow flags for me. Scammers usually blind buyers with a great price.

A quick Google turned up the same disturbing reports as Rusty reported. I would have researched this crowd a bit before trying to buy simply because of the family name.

Silvio Berlusconi - Wikipedia

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Release the Kraken

Also has connections to Hyatt Firearms. Interesting buying & shipping policy.

HOW TO ORDER - Berlusconi Firearms

It is stuff like this that makes the left want to shut down online gun sales. Also, further digging shows the "escrow" payment must be by Bitcoin.

Our Guarantee - Berlusconi Firearms

Actual Hyatt is a legit website. Hyattfirearms is not.

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Super Snooper

I would contact Paypal right now and tell them you were scammed and get your money back.

This page "looks" legit. But check the address given.
225 American Way, Monroe, OH

HOW TO ORDER | Berlusconi Firearms: Guns for sales | Buy guns online 2020

That is the address for AIM Surplus.

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Super Snooper

Screams scam to me.

As you know, PayPal doesn’t allow firearms transactions and if they catch you violating the policy, they’ll ban you and lock your account. There’s no purchase protection with friends and family. I can’t imagine a legitimate dealer requiring that you misrepresent the payment method.

The FFL Finder site shows no Berlusconi Firearms in Monroe Ohio.

Do you have their FFL #?

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"I also cook."

THIS IS A SCAM. I am as near to 100% certain as I can be. I looked at the address on Google Maps and several things set off my alarms:

1. There is no business name on the building or sign out front. The only sign is the one on the attached fence reading "Precise Forms, Inc.";
2. There are service trucks parked in their parking spaces, as if this is an office and warehouse space for Precise Forms. The placement of the fence confirms this, as does the overhead satellite image.
3. There is a gun shop further down the street called AIM Surplus, whom I have done business with before. Their phone number is 888-748-5252. Call them and ask - I would think they would know.
4. When they ask you to do a "Friends and Family" payment via PayPal, your purchase IS NOT COVERED by PayPal's warranty. You may not agree with PayPal's policy, but you have to wonder why this guy wants to get around it...

Just from the visuals I would vote "STAY AWAY AT ALL COSTS".

Frankly, it is quite amazing that what I could find in only a few minutes is so commonplace these days. Not more than 40 years ago what I was able to access would have been considered an issue of national security!

Smells like a scam. Their website looks suspiciously like the one for guns.com. They even stole the logo.

Try to cancel your payment ASAP. I don't know if paypal will help considering their prohibition of gun payments, though.

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Or something like that . . .

I was looking for a particular firearm and found it from a dealer that I had never heard of but looked legit. When I got to the pay part there was no payment method that I had ever heard of. I had my first experience with the dark web. I quickly backed out.

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Mighty 90's,Trying 4 a 100!

Many references to the Berlusconi online market and their gun dealings are from foreign media, from Canada to India. My suspicion is that this is a Darknet operation which is trolling the surface web in the US because here, in contrast to most other countries, buying and selling guns is actually legal and not that difficult.

To the OP:
when you got to the checkout page, why did you even continue?
None of the payments offer you any protection.
Copy & past direct from the checkout page.


NOTE: PAYMENT SHOULD BE DONE AS FRIENDS AND FAMILY BECAUSE PAYPAL DOES NOT SUPPORT SALES OF FIREARMS OR RELATED PRODUCTS.
COMPLETE PAYMENT ON NEXT PAGE.

PAY WITH CASHAPPPAY WITH CASHAPP

PAY WITH ZELLE PAY WITH ZELLE / CASHAPP (US CLIENTS ONLY!)
Due to client's Not being able to follow payment instructions with paypal, Paypal has been disabled. To use Paypal, Contact us at [email protected] for instructions.
Your personal data will be used to process your order, support your experience throughout this website, and for other purposes described in our privacy policy.

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Super Snooper

Hope your loss was not that great...

I knew by the end of your first paragraph that it didn't smell right.
What a shame, this type of a scam is only going to get worse with time.

This thread got my "super snooper" going.
Berlusconi Firearms is definitely not totally legit. As mentioned, no FFL listed.
Address given is for Precise Forms, Inc. as pointed out by another poster.
Address on Manta and other places is 225 American Way, Monroe, OH, which is the address of AIM Surplus.

One of the reviews I saw mentioned an altered FFL, AIM Surplus has their FFL available online, anybody connect the dots?

The HyattFirearms I previously mentioned is the Dark Web version of Berlusconi Firearms. Payment only by Bitcoin and ship to your house.
Same merchandise on both sights, links that go back and forth between the two, etc.

Another interesting thing I found on the HyattFirearms website, claiming to have received the Malcolm Baldrige National Quality Award 2 different years. Guess who actually did? Midway! a Missouri company.
Much of the website is copied from Hyatt Guns, Charlotte, NC, a legit company

Like my late Mother's saying, "Something rotten in Denmark"

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Super Snooper

I noticed that too. Hyatt Arms even copied their logo and only provides an email address. Hyatt guns provides a phone number, street address and all the information you would expect from a legitimate business.

Hyatt Guns (legitimate):





Hyatt Arms (questionable at best):

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"I also cook."

One of two things will happen. You'll get a good deal, or a good lesson. I hope it's the former, but either way, this is a good reminder to all of us.
Good luck.

Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk

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Slava Ukraini!

So many RED FLAGS on this one that the OP should have recognized. One has to ask, what was he thinking that he let it go far, before calling it off and saving the aggravation of having to get his money back.

I ran this scenario by my young grandson, a savvy, with permission, online purchaser and he was skeptical on hitting the send key, least he feel the wrath of his parents...LOL

I do hope it all works out for the OP and hope he isn’t out a lot of coin on this one.

Late last night I sent an email to the legit Hyatt asking if they were aware of the
"other" Hyatt. Got a reply this morning that yes, they are but the web hosting company refuses to remove the site. Somewhere in my digging around last night I saw Portugal mentioned.

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Super Snooper

Have you looked outside?
There may be Red Rockets in the air.
There’s just about every other warning already seen, so Rockets could be next!

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NRA LIFE MEMBER

After all that, you still sent them money?


Good luck with that!

You know, everyone says this, yet I bought a 32 target from Johnson Firearms in eastern PA. They sent me a PayPal invoice clearly stating what I was buying, and I paid using my Paypal account...there must be some way that this can be done.. i have a small LLC business and PayPal is always sending me mail telling me how I van use them for invoicing.

Robert

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Robert
SWCA #2906, SWHF #760

I don't know they can do that.
Here's their written policy:
acceptableuse-full

I suspect they would take a dim view on automatic knives, but I do know Blade HQ sells them and lets you pay with Paypal. Strange...

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"I also cook."

Caveat emptor.

Looks like the OP got scammed

Not looking too good for you, Tom. Sorry.
Hope it all works out, but I'm doubtful. If the spidey-sense is tingling....bail.

I just looked up Hyatt Firearms.
My antivirus shields blocked it saying it was a dangerous site.

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The Last Standing Knight

About half way thru the original post, I thought "ok, what's the punch line?" Skipped ahead to see that there is none. Man we you gotta be careful out there in the www.

Alright guys, here is the punch line. I can not believe that with my experience I could have ever been this foolish. I have never been ripped off in my life and spent many years trying to prevent others from having it done to them while in LE. All sorts of bells and whistles went off during the process telling me to bail and I most assuredly should have done so. I am totally embarrassed to say that I let this happen to me and the result is that I lost $700 in the process. I have now decided that I am going to make these guys a hobby. I will be contacting ATF, FBI and everyone else that I can think of to try and put these pieces of excrement out of business.
Their site is a photo shopped scam as is the address and all that they do in terms of payment , shipment and everything to do with the normal course for business. I anyone has any suggestions on how to proceed with my endeavor, please comment. Thanks for being kind enough not to call ma all types of stupid with your replies although I could read between the lines and would have thought the same if in fact I had not commented on it!!!

No worries,I’d bet most of us have been burned a time or two in various “deals”

What were you trying to get?

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Thread Killer.

Marshal Tom,

Don't feel too bad, you are not alone. In the first part of the pandemic I fell for a similar scam, a bogus Lysol website. I actually paid with PayPal and was happy to buy some disinfecting wipes. When there was no confirmation, I checked with PayPal and they showed payment to a woman's name, not Lysol. I was able to check the site out on Google and got all sorts of distressing information. I was able to cancel the transaction with PayPal by furnishing them with documentation of unanswered emails and phone calls. I then contracted Lysol and made them aware of the fradulant website, and they answered that they were looking onto the matter, and thanked me for the information.

I thought I was pretty sharp at identifying phishing scams, but I did not suspect the very elaborate bogus Lysol website (it was totally realistic). So....everyone be careful out there on the web.

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GARY
SWCA #2897, SWHF #436

MT, I am sorry for what happened but applaud your sharing the details of it with us so we can be aware and help steer others away from them.

Go get 'em!

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Music/Sports/Beer fan

When mr india called. That would have been it for me. SCAM

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S&W Accumulator

I got ripped on four fishing reels, deal was so good instead of trying one reel then purchasing more if it worked out,,,,NO, had to act quickly and gettem while you can at a great bargain.

Didn’t get the money back either

If it’s a too good of a deal.....

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triggers dog-pile egomaniacs

I used Paypal to pay for an electronic item that was not delivered. My credit card company was happy to refund the transaction.

Marshal Tom, a lot of us here have stories similar to yours.

Last June, I responded to an ad on Facebook from LL Bean, advertising a sale on their legendary Bean Boots. The ad was on Facebook...and it was from LL Bean...so it had to be legit, right? Wrong.

I paid for the order with my debit card, and my bank immediately emailed me to warn me that this was possibly a fraudulent transaction. I called LL Bean (I'm a regular customer) to ask about it, and they told me that scammers had copied their catalog pages and were ripping people off.

I notified my bank, and they immediately credited my account with the amount I paid -- $82 -- in the fraudulent transaction.

As for your case, I respectfully suggest you contact your local field office of the United States Secret Service; one of their areas of jurisdiction is credit card fraud and similar financial crimes. Good luck to you.

Cyber Investigations | United States Secret Service

[QUOTE=Beemerguy53;141001017]Marshal Tom, a lot of us here have stories similar to yours.

Last June, I responded to an ad on Facebook from LL Bean, advertising a sale on their legendary Bean Boots. The ad was on Facebook...and it was from LL Bean...so it had to be legit, right? Wrong.

I paid for the order with my debit card, and my bank immediately emailed me to warn me that this was possibly a fraudulent transaction. I called LL Bean (I'm a regular customer) to ask about it, and they told me that scammers had copied their catalog pages and were ripping people off.

I notified my bank, and they immediately credited my account with the amount I paid -- $82 -- in the fraudulent transaction.

I fell for the same add on Facebook .I payed with PayPal after a month I reported it to Pay Pal and got refunded my $75.00.

I'd say these characters are offshore and there is nothing to be done.

I was scammed about 35 years ago, even though I figured myself as a semi-street wise NYer.
Sent a deposit of $350 to a dealer in Oklahoma, who represented himself as a Dakota dealer. Called Dakota to confirm that he was dealer. Yes, he was. ( I forget the name of the couple running the company, but I was indeed speaking with the wife(update:her name was Norma))She even went as far to say that as long as I had proof of payment to him, it was considered secure by them. Paid by USPS m.o. Dakota later gave me the serial number which they claimed they would never do without having the deposit. Apparently, the dealer did send some deposits in, but not all of them. Time passed and production was delayed. If the dealer had any good intentions, they evaporated along the way. The dealer absconded and was eventually arrested in another state. I believe that he did time.(about 10 guys were stung by him)
Dakota welched on their promise. When the rifle was finally completed, they told me :No credit for the deposit and btw, the price of the rifle went up in the meantime. I let them keep it.
I swore that I would never own a Dakota after that, but one day I stumbled across a magnificent Model 76 from an estate at my LGS, which was definitely underpriced. It came home with me, and a some years later, I sold it for twice what I paid. That guy got a bargain himself, however selling expensive rifles is no easy task, and I had a better investment to pursue at the time.

It helps to free yourself from the notion, popular in the gun culture but largely nonsense, that there are nefarious anti-gun motivations behind the corporate policies pertaining to any dealings with guns.

In the real world, these are mostly driven by concerns about potential legal liability. In a few cases, there may be marketing considerations, like wanting to appear “progressive” (which today means anti-gun) to an important customer base.

Beyond that, neither Paypal nor any other business entity gives a flying fart whether you buy and sell machine guns or automatic knives.

So as long as you don’t call your outfit “Dangerous People Killers Inc.” or something else obvious, it has been my experience that Paypal transactions go through just fine.

Maybe so, but as a longtime seller on eBay I'm not willing to test it and have my accounts locked and not be able to sell there.

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Super Snooper

Tell PayPal you just figured out it was a gun and you’re mortified and want to cancel the order immediately!

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“Look life in its iron face”

That just might be crazy enough to work!

Once you use Paypal friends and family option to pay....that money is gone.
Paypal says thats why they call it "friends and family";only use it for..friends or family. Period..kiss your money goodbye..

A year ago, I "bought" a Ben Shostle engraved dagger from Global Gun Sales...online..it all looks very legit...BUT,it's not...and they got my money..I got zip. Matter of fact, they are still online and "selling".
Have a look yourself. Pathetic..

Paypal was sympathetic..BUT..not responsible.
They know their system is being used for theft..yet nothing is done about it.Even more pathetic..

It's a scam. If you use the "friends and family" option to pay for goods you have no recourse if the "seller" disappears. If you complain to PayPal they will cancel your account for fraud since you used it to help the seller circumvent PayPal's policies.

There is a good chance that you will lose your money on this.

It's easy to spoof legit websites, it happens all the time.

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Can open, worms everywhere.

This is not completely accurate. Under a previous Presidential administration, the firearms industry was included in "Operation Choke Point" which was ostensibly aimed a Pay Day Lenders and other shady financial operations.

It put a lot of pressure on financial institutions to deny purchases of firearms and associated products by people legally buying those items.

Some operations went along voluntarily, others were coerced.

Even though the program officially ended in 2017, some banks still operate under the same policies they enacted while the program was still in effect.

PayPal issued and still does credit cards and lines of credit. As such, it came under those rules. At the time Ebay owned PayPal and had a policy for a while of not allowing sales of firearm parts, including magazines. They will now, but only up to 10 rounds and still don't allow standard capacity magazines to be sold if those magazine are more than 10 rounds.

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Can open, worms everywhere.