Help with a Luger

moosedog · Apr 16, 2009

Once again I come with questions, this time a Luger chamber marked "41" and toggle marked "byf". It is marked P-08 and is in 9mm. All numbers match except the magazine and the barrel is stamped "889" and then restamped next to it "89" with the same stamp style as the rest of the gun.
My questions are why is the barrel restamped and what is that little letter under the serial number on the front of the frame? It looks like a "z" to me, but I'm not too familiar with Lugers. I couldn't pass this one up for $600, it has the german proof stamps and no import marks. Bore is good, shoots fine.
Also, is there a model number for this 41 byf?

moosedog · Apr 16, 2009

Once again I come with questions, this time a Luger chamber marked "41" and toggle marked "byf". It is marked P-08 and is in 9mm. All numbers match except the magazine and the barrel is stamped "889" and then restamped next to it "89" with the same stamp style as the rest of the gun.
My questions are why is the barrel restamped and what is that little letter under the serial number on the front of the frame? It looks like a "z" to me, but I'm not too familiar with Lugers. I couldn't pass this one up for $600, it has the german proof stamps and no import marks. Bore is good, shoots fine.
Also, is there a model number for this 41 byf?

digi-shots · Apr 16, 2009

Looks like a nice one, with numbers matching! Most times the magazine s/n does not match.

byf is the arsenal code for Mauser, one of the leading German makers.

Peter J. · Apr 16, 2009

I only have two WW2 Lugers, so I am not an expert, but have some knowlege. The "Z" indicates a block of serial numbers in a production series. Your gun is number "89" in the "Z" block. After all the assigned numbers are used (up to number 9999) then they would go back to the "A" series and start all over. The fact that you gun is 89 and there are the numbers 889 on the barrel is just a conincidence. I'm very sure the "889" is the offical manufacturer's measured diameter on the bore. Your gun looks nice. 1941 made Lugers are a bit scarce. Production of P. 08's almost came to a complete stop by 1942, with "42" dated guns being the most rare and sought after of WW2 Lugers. You pretty much "stole" the gun at $600. Now you need to find a nice original WW2 holster. Those run about $300 now-a-days.

tiapat · Apr 16, 2009

The "889" is the caliber designation (bore gauge) The tolerances were plus or minus a thousandth or so, indicating aprox. 9 m/m, the standard military handgun caliber of the period.

The "89" is the serial number in the "Z" block. Mauser (byf) normally serial numbered these P08s up to 10,000, and started again with another letter suffix. According to Still's 3rd Reich Lugers, Mauser made about 125,000 BYF 41 dated P08s, most went to the Army. A few went to other branches; Luft, Navy, etc.

There should also be "135" German Army acceptance stamps in key areas. The wood grips should also have 89 on at least one, and maybe a couple small waffenampts.

Nice gun. I have a 42 BYF, which is the last coded Mauser prior to the P-38 taking over, which Mauser also made under the secret code, BYF. Now you need a black holster, extra mag and loading tool. This can get habit-forming in a hurry.

Not only S&W, but a Looger junkie

Cheers

feralmerril · Apr 16, 2009

Speaking of the holster, what are they going for now? My uncle brought back one almost exactly like this one. The gun was stolen years ago and I still have the holster, loading tool and the extra magazine.

moosedog · Apr 16, 2009

Thanks guys.
So that appears to be a "Z" under the serial number, I'm getting better at this.
Sorry about your uncle's gun Ferral. I know the Luger holsters are not cheap. When you find out what it is worth let me know. I didn't get a holster with this gun and would rather give a fellow Forum member my money.

I saw where some of these 41 byf Mausers were referred to as "Black Widows" and had black plastic grips. Are the grips the only difference?

n4zov · Apr 16, 2009

The Luger experts hang out here:

http://www.lugerforum.com/

http://luger.gunboards.com/

Tom M · Apr 16, 2009

The Michigan State Police "Firearms Identification Field Guide" has a whole section on markings for P.08 and P.38 pistols.

Here's the link...

MSP Field Guide

2152hq · Apr 17, 2009

The so called Black Widows have the black plastic grips and a black plastic magazine base. The deep black color of the hot salt (blued) finish on the late production guns enhances the name too.

The name 'Black Widow' was coined by Luger collector/dealer Ralph Shattuck many years ago and has stuck firmly in Luger collectors jargon ever since.

Deacon KC · Apr 18, 2009

http://www.surplusrifle.com/pistolp08luger/index.asp
Link with a great take down guide.

Help with a Luger

moosedog

Member

moosedog

Member

digi-shots

SWCA Member

Peter J.

Member

tiapat

Member

feralmerril

Absent Comrade

moosedog

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n4zov

US Veteran

Tom M

Member

2152hq

Member

Deacon KC

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