GB apparently gets hacked often. I contacted a seller (or so I thought. The reply emails looked identical to GB emails) & we made a deal on a Colt SAA. I sent payment ($1650.00) & never heard back.

I contacted the seller (fortunately a dealer) by other means. It turned out that I was the 4th victim he's had within the last month. The only way to tell was by the return email address. His was (XX)[email protected]. The fake responses came from (XX)[email protected]. A lower case L looks very similar to a lower case I. I did not catch that because, well I wasn't looking for it as the return emails looked identical to GunBroker emails.

I reported this to GB, & they did nothing. You can't call them (unless you want to "upgrade" for $50.00. Which even then it's not easy to speak with a live human). GunBroker said they'd look into the issue, but all they did was send me another email asking me how great their (non-existent) customer service was.

Long & short of it is: GB is not a trustworthy site, use it at your own risk, because they do not care if you get ripped-off.

My experience with GB when I’ve had a couple of issues with sellers is they will side with the seller every time. After all, that’s who they make money from. I’ve had some really good transactions over the last 20 yrs or so with GB sellers and buyers. But it’s up you to know what you’re doing. If things don’t seem quite right somehow don’t just plunge ahead anyway and expect GB to be watching over you.

OUCH, that's sorry to read about.

Sorry to hear about your GB misfortune. That sucks! Thanks
for the heads up.

These are just a few of the reasons why I now only sell off my guns via an Auctioneer on-line via proxibid. The amount I pay in fee's to the auctioneer are far below the hassle and cost of my trying to sell myself and having to ship myself. The "hassle-factor" is something I avoid at all costs.

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H Richard
SWCA1967 SWHF244

Wait. Did you set up a deal outside the bounds of a typical Gunbroker transaction?

If so it's not surprising you got scammed and not Gunbrokers fault.

That's how I read it too.

If you didn't complete the sale on GB, you can't blame them for you getting scammed.

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BTDT, Got The T-Shirt

The United States Secret Service investigates internet phishing schemes and similar financial crimes. I suggest you contact the USSS field office nearest you ASAP and see if they can help.


United States Secret Service

GB has so many scammers selling guns you need to be real, real careful. I almost got scammed on a SAA a few months ago. Scammers will lift the pictures and descriptions right from a legitimate seller on a another site. I still buy guns but I pretty much only do business with real businesses and call them before I mail money. Easy to google the business to get the real phone number.

I did exactly that before my last GB purchase...great advice.

Gunbroker itself is not actually being hacked, per se. Anyone with an average computer and too much time can reproduce emails that look exactly like ones from ANY business - I see them all the time in my spam folder. Checking the return email address is a big tip-off - they usually come from an independent email provider like google.com, yahoo.com, hotmail.com or others that are lesser known instead of directly from @gunbroker.com. The moment I see something like that, regardless of how good the email looks, I know it's a scam.

The fact that there are scammers trolling GunBroker is no more surprising that the scammers who haunt eBay or Amazon, or a million other sites where people spend their money. Just checking my spam folder today and I can see fake emails from Bank of America, eBay, Wells Fargo (whom I don't have an account with), and even the Crown Prince of Nigeria!

Due diligence. I've bought and sold hundreds of firearms and other items on Gunbroker with minimal problems. And the very few I've had were non-paying buyers, and Gunbroker had my back every time, and made it right with me.

Sorry for saying this, but I would be very careful making accusations about Gunbroker seeing you worked outside the system and got stung. With only 7 posts here in the last 6 years, I wonder about your motives as well.

It is just not right to blame GB, who has an extensive system set up to protect buyers and sellers and are not there to lure in the gullible. When someone works around the system that is set up to protect them and gets stung do not blame GB but maybe blame themselves. Heck, even this site that has great security, still gets crooks who cause trouble until they are found and kicked out.

As for those who only buy from businesses, that is their decision, but being a private seller all one has to do is look at the feedback and contact the seller if interested in something they offer for sale. First, feedback represents maybe half of all transactions because many do not give feedback and is a very good way to judge a seller. Contacting the seller is another great way to validate the seller. Also look for Verified Members (the green checkmark). I can state with experience that for those who only buy from businesses on GB have are missing some great firearms from honest collectors who are also sellers.

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Gary
SWCA 2515

If you're looking at an item listed by a private seller, ask them for a very specific photo. If they can provide that then there's a much better chance that they actually have the item. If they can't well... why not?

Indeed. I have the same impression reading your description:

Gunbroker is set up to bid on auctions, not to "make deals". Your description sounds like you tried to scam Gunbroker.

Gunbroker is a gun show table. What criteria to use in deciding which auctions to bid on is the buyer's responsibility.

I have yet to read a "blame Gunbroker" thread where the blame didn't fall upon the complainer's miscalculation of risk or lack of due diligence.

Go thru Gunbrokers checkout system from your account not from some random email.

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Super Snooper

I feel bad that you have been taken for a substantial amount of money. But, please add some clarity for me with respect to this transaction. As I read it, you struck a purchase deal with a GunBroker seller, for an item listed on GunBroker, but your deal was outside of the BunBroker confines. Then, after things went south, you asked GunBroker to help you resolve the mess, and they did not jump to attention immediately to resolve your problem. And for these reasons you label GunBroker "not a trustworthy site....because they do not care if you get ripped-off." If I am wrong, please correct me.
Due diligence is your friend whenever dealing with someone that you do not personally know. And if the other party is complicit in circumventing the 'set parameters', they share in whatever problems you encounter (or may even be part of the problem itself).

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NRA Endowment Member

I have bought from GB and Gun International with no issues but only deal with sellers that take credit cards. I am not going to do anything online with a person I don't know for more than $100. with anything other than a credit card.

I'm afraid I have to side with the majority of the replies, if you made "a deal" outside of Gunbroker's system, which certainly seems to be carefully set up to protect both the buyer and seller, I find it difficult to feel sorry for you if you got "took". I currently have a feedback rating of 429 on Gunbroker, 100% positive, no negative or neutral. I'm actually sort of offended at your blaming Gunbroker for your lack of, once again, "due diligence ".

If a seller does not take credit cards using an escrow service might be prudent.

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Have Fun/Stay Safe

I DID NOT TRY TO MAKE A DEAL OUTSIDE OF THE GUNBROKER WEBSITE (Why do so many people think that?) I contacted the seller thru GunBroker, I did not try to go outside of the website. All I did was make an offer on a revolver, which I did (again) via GunBroker. I was not trying to subvert the website at all. The return emails all looked identical to GunBroker emails. Everything seemed proper; there was no red flags or warning signs. I wasn't trying to "cheat" GunBroker at all.

Beemerguy: thanks for the info, I'll check into it, but this wasn't phishing, it was a straight-up hacking. And from what I can tell, the federal gov't isn't interested in my problems (prolly cuz they're under-funded & I'm a nobody).

Jon651: No, the GunBroker most definitely was hacked, the real seller told me that himself as I was the 4th victim he's had in 1 month. My email went thru GunBroker, it did not make it to the actual seller as the hacker intercepted it & responded to me. With GunBroker emails which were identical to GunBroker emails. This was not my first (or 10th) time buying/selling guns there.

The seller had hundreds of positive feedbacks & was a FFL dealer with a retail firearms business. I did not reply to an ad from a private seller.

Glowe: Sure, I'm not a big poster here, but what "motives" would you think I have for posting about being ripped-off on GunBroker? It most certainly is right to blame GunBroker since: 1. they did not have any protective measures in place to prevent this (They couldn't hire an internet security company like every other internet business does?) & 2. They should have made this right to me. It was their website that was hacked & it was because they were too cheap to ensure they had a secure website.

How was payment made and how was your payment sent? If you used the USPS First Class mail and/or you used USPS Money Order to pay for the item, file a mail fraud claim with the USPS Postal Inspectors. It worked in my case and I got what I had purchased. The seller called me and asked if I could drop the mail fraud case as he was being threatened with prison time. I told him the claim would be in place until I received what I had ordered. A week later, my stuff arrived and I dropped the claim.

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Bill

I hate to say it but ANY WEBSITE is no longer safe and requires caution and common sense when using! Hacker's and Scammer's are usually smarter than the honest guys and they always figure out a way.

As many here know, there have even been scammers right here on our website!! The Internet is a double edged sword - it cuts both ways!

Ouch. I've used it only once and it went smoothly.

Been on GB since Sept 2000. It changed ownership in the last year (hence taxes, additional fees and an abundance of scammers). I only utilize it if I’m 100% sure. If it’s a new seller with little/no feedback I steer clear.

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Some Might Say.

No, GB itself is being hacked. Fraudulent GB accounts stolen from honest accounts, pictures and descriptions from other sights. Yes an email from outside GB is suspicious on itself. But then again when I buy from a business I often get an email with an invoice.

When you get an e-mail, hover your pointer over it. It will give you the actual e-mail address.
G-mail click the "to me" under the email address and it will give you all the info you need about the sender

I’m just spitballing here, and I’ll admit that I only spent about ten minutes searching the interweb, but can you point me to an escrow service that does things besides houses and really expensive cars?

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Wisdom comes thru fear . . .

I guess I’m confused. I am aware of two options on Gunbroker. “Buy it now,” which I thought had a fixed price, and participating in the auction. I always figured anything else was “going outside of Gunbroker.” But I could be wrong. I’ve always won or lost the auction. Sending an email for a “buy it now” gun seems like cheating . . .

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Wisdom comes thru fear . . .

To reiterate, just because you make a direct deal by using Gunbroker‘s e-mail does not mean you’re not scamming Gunbroker. The ONLY way to buy on GB is to bid on the auction or buy now. Anything else cheats GB out of the fee for their services of providing the platform.

How did the auction end? If the seller lowered his price to your offer and you won the auction, then GB got their fees and it is a legit sale. If the auction ended with reserve not met or the seller ended the auction and then sold you the gun for your offer, then GB did not get their seller fees. If this happened, GB is not responsible.You either win the auction by highest bid or buy it now. Any other way, they are not responsible. I have been selling and buying on there for 14 years and no problem but always use some of the points made here if any doubt- request specific pics, look at feedback and make sure it is not all from same person. If I have a buyer or seller with at least 2 neg feedbacks , I don't do business with them. Period.
If something doesn't feel right, it's probably not.

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Psalms 37:4

It's still not completely clear here, but bottom line is if you actually WON an auction, or hit the Buy-it-now button, and got scammed, then yes, Gunbroker should attempt to make it right. If not....my Grandpa always said "your best education comes from your dumbest decisions".

Why is it so hard to believe that incredibly intelligible scammers operate on GB, post on GB, and bill through GB. Go search coltforum.com. Seems a lot of scammers like to sell high end collectible Colt SAA.

"How was payment made and how was your payment sent? If you used the USPS First Class mail and/or you used USPS Money Order to pay for the item, file a mail fraud claim with the USPS Postal Inspectors."

I paid with USPS money orders sent via USPS Priority Mail. I did file a claim, but the actual seller was not the party who received my emails, nor my payment.

"I hate to say it but ANY WEBSITE is no longer safe and requires caution and common sense when using!"

Agreed, but this scam was so slick that anyone would have been taken. This isn't my first time on the internet.

"When you get an e-mail, hover your pointer over it. It will give you the actual e-mail address. G-mail click the "to me" under the email address and it will give you all the info you need about the sender"

It was an email from the GunBroker website, not a private email. I contacted the seller through GunBroker & the response looked like every other email I've received on GunBroker (same GunBroker logo, same font, size, layout, etc.

"Sending an email for a “buy it now” gun seems like cheating"

There was no "buy it now" option. There were no bids on the item & I merely sent the seller a question asking if he'd take $1500 for it (I made an offer). How could that possibly be construed that as "cheating?" That insinuation sounds like blaming the victim.

"To reiterate, just because you make a direct deal by using Gunbroker‘s e-mail does not mean you’re not scamming Gunbroker."

***? How could I have possibly been trying to scam GunBroker? That's quite rude of you to say something like that. If the previously cited post wasn't an example of blaming the victim, this certainly is & I'm quite offended by this insinuation; that's quite rude.

Alright, I give up. I was simply trying to warn others about being scammed & I get treated like I'm somehow at fault and/or an evil person?

I mentioned it before, did you go thru Gunbroker's Check out?
How did you get the address to mail the MO?
Please post a link to the actual Gunbroker auction listing. I'm surprised no one has asked for that before.
I'm still not fitting the pieces together and I'm normally pretty good at this stuff. I am not accusing you of anything.

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Super Snooper

Why didn't you just bid $1,500 and see what happened? That's how auctions work. It's clear now that you tried to circumvent the auction process . . .

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Wisdom comes thru fear . . .

I have never bought or sold on GB. I want to hold the gun in hand before I hand over the CASH. When I sell a gun, the buyer has the opportunity to inspect it before he hands over the CASH. That way the buyer and seller are responsible for the transaction. No second and third parties are involved. It has always worked well for me.

Face time or duo me with the firearm in the video so we can inspect and discuss or I will not even bother bidding.



OP you got and expensive lesson, but hopefully lesson learned.


That being said I have had EXCELLENT dealings with individuals on this site both as a buyer and a seller.

There's your answer, right there. It wasn't Gunbroker that was hacked, it's your dealer's email.

gotta play by the rules if you want the rules to apply to yourself.

sorry you got burned.

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"Onward thru the Fog"

You can pout, but that does not change the fact that you got scammed because you tried to circumvent the Gunbroker system while actually using it to communicate with the presumed seller, so Gunbroker does not get their fees.

I‘m aware such side deals happen all the time, but you are getting blowback here because you are maligning Gunbroker and blaming them for a problem entirely of your own making, and have the nerve to actually expect them to help you fix it.

Bingo.

Not GB's problem.
.

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BTDT, Got The T-Shirt

Anyone besides me wonder if the "Dealer" himself might actually be the scammer?

Malercous, before you run off all offended, consider what has happened.

Gunbroker provided a venue that brought you and the seller together. Gunbroker hosted the auction. Gunbroker hosted weeks (or months or years) of feedback for the seller, all generated by legitimate sales or purchases that the seller has done over that time.

Gunbroker has hosted hundreds of thousands of auctions successfully -- and the fact that they have done that has attracted the seller to post his gun there and attracted you to visit to search for a gun you would like to purchase.

Then Gunbroker allowed you and the seller to communicate with each other at your will with THEIR system, and they sent messages back and forth between the two of you.

All of that is demonstrably true. And that is a business and that business was not free for Gunbroker. They charge for all of the above. It's a lot of work, but it is profitable.

However... in this case, both you and the seller circumvented the system by which Gunbroker profits and covers the expense of EVERYTHING above. Not one of you, the seller or the scammer paid anything to Gunbroker for your $1,500 gun buy.

That's the part of this that has been pointed out, and that is what you are taking offense at.

You have the absolute right to be offended, but it may help for you to understand why you are seeing the replies in this thread.

If I have a weed wacker and I bring it in to Home Depot and I stand at the weed wacker section of Home Depot and you walk in looking for a weed wacker and you skip the Home Depot $229 weed wacker to purchase mine for $165, Home Depot attracted YOU for a tool, they attracted ME to find buyers for the tool, they gave us both a/c on a hot day, a place to park, bright lights, lots of room to swing and hold a weed wacker and they provided all of that for *FREE* and they never agreed to do that.

That's what you and the seller (and the scammer) just did.

I have used GB successfully for over 20 years and at least 105 (and counting) transactions.

Had one issue (wrong gun was sent) and the seller made it right immediately.

Once I win or "Buy It Now" I contact the seller right away. Sometimes I use the GB email or you can click "View Sellers Contact Info". That will list name, address, phone number, and email address.

I refuse to believe GB would continue to be so successful for over 20 years of it was so vulnerable to attack.

But, what do I know?

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Un-Reconstructed Southerner

Apparently there was some confusion & not every one read my entire posts. To be clear:

I originally contacted the seller through the GunBroker website. That & subsequent emails were apparently intercepted by a hacker. The replies looked identical to other emails I've received on the site.

The "seller" directed me to send payment by USPS money order. That is quite normal on firearms sales because otherwise the buyer would be charged a 3% fee for using a credit card. Which many sellers do not accept.

Here was the listing I replied to: Https://www.gunbroker.com/item/908264076
This might get edited out because it looks like I'm trying to sell something. Chad should correct that because he knows the context.

"Why didn't you just bid $1,500 and see what happened? That's how auctions work. It's clear now that you tried to circumvent the auction process . . ."

The minimum bid was $1650.00, so bidding less was not an option. Sending aa offer to a seller (AGAIN) is in no way circumventing GunGroker: they still would have gotten their cut. Everything was above board; GunBroker (like eBay & other sites) have algorithms in place which detect sellers trying to circumvent the system. Thanks Muggins for assuming the worst of me & blaming the victim.

"gotta play by the rules if you want the rules to apply to yourself."

Apparently you've not been paying attention to my posts VonFatman. I've played by the rules, yet somehow it's my (the victim's) fault?

"You can pout, but that does not change the fact that you got scammed because you tried to circumvent the Gunbroker system while actually using it to communicate with the presumed seller, so Gunbroker does not get their fees."

Again, this is not true: read my posts.

This is a prime example of why I don't post on this site often: cynical curmudgeons who assume the worst of someone & thrive on negativity.

Bye, ya'll.****. I'm done here. I don't need this kind of **** in my life.

Excellent point. I think of the credit card fee as insurance against getting ripped off.

What part of this statement did you not understand?
direct quote from auction listing "BEFORE YOU BID. WE DO NOT HAVE AUTOMATIC CHECKOUT on Gunbroker AS WELL AS PAYMENT ONLINE and winning bidder must contact us by phone after FINAL INVOICE IS POSTED ONLINE showing shipping, and handling, taxes (if applicable)"

Must contact us by phone..... Did you???
Was the invoice posted online?
How did you get the address to mail payment?

The seller had their phone number listed, website was listed, you could have checked the address.

As someone else suggested, I believe the seller's email was hacked.
Gunbroker was NOT hacked.
You completed the transaction outside of the sellers terms of service and outside of Gunbroker. There is NO way that Gunbroker has any responsibility for your actions. The onus is on you to prove otherwise to me.

Keep your **** in your life, not here.

To add in plain words, you were scammed by a scammer.

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Super Snooper

FWIW, the auction shows as ENDED with ZERO bids, not SOLD.

That tells me that the "seller" - or someone impersonating him - made a deal with the OP directly OUTSIDE of the normal bidding and payment process through GunBroker.

malercous, emailing the seller, then making an arrangement to buy the gun without bidding on it through the GunBroker site means that GunBroker doesn't know that a deal was made and they don't get PAID.

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you didn't think it through to recognize that this is a violation of GunBroker's terms, because the gun was sold as a result of being listed on their site, but they received no compensation for the listing.

The fact that you got hold of the seller (actually someone impersonating him) through GunBroker does not change this fact. You still broke the rules, even if unintentionally, by cutting GunBroker out of their fees.

From GunBroker's perspective, the auction ended without the gun being sold. They have no record of your winning bid - because you didn't place a bid. You made a deal with the seller "on the side".

So your problem with the seller is entirely YOUR problem - not theirs. They didn't get paid, the transaction isn't "on their books", because you broke their rules.

So why should they care? What is their incentive to even try to help you? From their perspective, you and the "seller" cheated them out of their fees.

A classic case of caveat emptor. Sorry if it was an innocent mistake on your part. For future reference, ALL emails about a transaction like this should take place only from WITHIN their website. When you get a message from the "seller" you should be able to go to your GunBroker account, look in your messages, and see his reply there. Within the message there will be a REPLY button and using that feature to respond to his reply maintains the paper trail in GunBroker's records in case something goes sideways.

The minute you and the seller started exchanging emails directly instead of through GunBroker's email system you broke the paper trail. So they have no record of any of your correspondence. Probably just as well, because if they had documented evidence that you were buying the gun without bidding on it they'd lock and close your account.

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