old school rules

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Forum consigliere

He does good work. He had a table at our local gun show a few years back. He was selling some of the guns used in his videos. A good guy, polite and soft spoken.

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No baby we aint

I enjoy watching Paul's videos but always set the playback speed to either 1.25 or 1.5 because he's a bit long-winded.

Back to the real world, I'll have to say I've been to several autopsies and read many more coroner reports reference the result of various people shot with the 'venerable' .45 acp. Notwithstanding the importance of proper training and practice, the newer bullet designs, like the Federal HST, Speer Gold Dot and the Winchester Ranger T-Series, are truly devastating.

Surely, everyone who carries has to make their own choice (if the choice is not dictated by department policy), and not all can handle the .45acp, but I can't imagine a more suitable round for personal defense for those who are proficient with this particular caliber.

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Ret. LE, FA Instr, S&W Armorer

Just like concealed vs OC, flip phone vs smart phone, striker vs hammer, etc, after 20 minutes “do what’s right for you”.

Can we get him to join this forum?

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I’m your Boogie Man, uh huh.

Between the two, it's whatever one makes you happy, but the 10mm usually gives you an extra round or two in the magazine. Nonetheless, neither will do much if you don't put it in the right spot.

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213th FBINA

.45 ACP is my preferred caliber. My personal thoughts are that the research that led to the development of that round is no less valid today that it was at the turn of the 19th-20th Century.

Yes, there will always be improvements and developments and better/worse/similar/different rounds that become available but much like my dad (who is 92) it's hard to argue with longevity!

Excellent demo and comparison. Would have thought he would have worn ear muffs and glasses during all shooting. Should have used 1911’s. Would like to see similar with 38 auto.

Bullet performance is affected by three features: mass, Muzzle velocity and bullet design.

So you have Slow and big .45acp vs smaller and much faster 10mm. I would hate to have to live on the difference given same bullet design. I have never seen the affects of a 10mm gunshot wound in person but I've seen plenty of the old .45 ball ammo the gave us back in the day. I can't imagine a hand gun caliber (except the .50) being any more destructive.

My main carry gun is now a Glock 20sf 10mm and it is a beast. I'm confident in it's capability and I can shoot it well enough.

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Real men love cats!

I carried a Browning High Power in 40 S&W when our issue round was 45 ACP. The 180 grain 40 penetrates better, or did at the time. If there had been a 10mm High Power, I'd have carried it with 200 grain bullets.

That research was very primitive compared to what would be done today. One of the older editions of Gun Digest had an article which included the transcript of the 1904 Thompson-LaGarde tests that ultimately resulted in the adoption of the .45 ACP. To say the tests were crude and poorly constructed is a compliment.

That may be true, but penicillin was an accident. As were x-rays, the microwave oven, Vaseline, insulin and dozens (if not hundreds) of other things. That doesn't mean they don't work and aren't valuable even if how they were invented didn't have the best possible methodology for the results that were achieved.

What I have noticed when it comes to scientific/engineering testing is when you make the tests so stringent and rigidly structured you invariably get a result that may pass those tests with flying colors but oftentimes fails in the "real world" because reality is chaotic and varied compared to the testing regimen.

Can anyone really argue that the .45 ACP hasn't been - and still is - an effective and lethal round literally in spite of its developmental process that is supposedly so "flawed"?

Advanced level duct tape for the win!!!!

A 180gr FMJ at 1200 FPS vs the meat would have been quite instructive, I think.

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Release the Kraken

If you have a 45, people will assume you were born in ninteen ought elevty-twelve!

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Μολὼν λαβέ
NRA Life Member

I still carry a .380 with 7 rounds of ball.

I'll be at the kid's table if anyone needs me.

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Music/Sports/Beer fan

I can't quit 357 Magnum.

Refreshing to see reference to Thompson- LaGarde tests. Consider the technology at that time and the results. Pretty sure many here remember the LEAA tests in the 70’s that showed the 9mm the best cartridge, lol, choke, choke, spit….

9mm is plenty for thugs. For bears go 10mm.

I went from a .41 Mag duty gun to 10mm when I moved back to the ranch. 10mm is not equal to 41 mag, but it's a very salty round.



It's doing the same at 100 yards as a .45 does at the muzzle.


I flattened a coyote at 80 yards with mine.


Shot a road struck antelope in the back of the head from about 20 yards.
Blew both eyes out of their sockets.


Shot an 800 pound heifer that had been hit on the road by a truck. Shot her above the eyes. Bullet went through the head and lodged in the spine between the shoulders. Knocked her over backwards.


I retired the 10mms when I moved back to town. I worried about too much penetration and went to a 45.
As I have aged and not out and about as much, I have wandered down to the P365 for EDC.


I would have to say that 10mm is my favorite cartridge, but I just don't have the need for that much horsepower living in town.

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Eccentric old coot

I have a Glock model 40 that I'm pretty fond of. However I'm currently running a 40S&W barrel in it as I always lose 2/3 of my 10mm brass while the 40 S&W brass drops at my feet.

Even with the long slide the Model 40, shooting the Sig performance ammo, has considerably more recoil than the model 21 shooting the comparable ammo. I suspect the model 20 would be even more noticeable.

I do prefer larger calibers like 10s, 45s, 44s and even 40s. My current EDC is an XDS in 45, but that can easily change. However, I carried my S&W Shield 9 for a good while until I got tired of it's sharp edged rear sight drilling a hole in my fat roll.

I would like a Glock 20 but it would be too big for regular EDC so I guess I'll just stick with my model 40. If I'm wearing enough clothes to conceal a Glock 20 (rare other than Sunday) I can conceal the model 40 just as easily.

Certainly not PETA-approved, at any rate.

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Because of the metric system?

Collateral damage is a serious issue in urban areas. That is why I rarely carried magnum loads or rounds with a high muzzle velocity like the 10mm or .357sig. I carried mostly .44dspl and .45acp.

A while back I sold off a lot of my stuff including all .45 caliber guns and ammo. Now I find myself out in the country. Wide open out here for the most part. I decided to get back into the .45 caliber but that was a year ago. I was unable to find any quality .45 caliber hand guns and NO ammo.

I've always been interested in the 10mm and went on and got the Glock 20. It's a big pistol but well balanced and weighted so the recoil in not bad at all.

I doubt I could hit a coyote at 80yds but I dang sure couldn't do it with a .45.

I've had lots of Glocks So this new 10mm fits my country bidness just fine.

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Real men love cats!

I'm right there with ya lobbing spitballs at the grownups!

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Forum consigliere

Sold my Delta Elite 10mm years ago as ammo cost too much. I enjoyed the 10mm but could only afford the 45 ammo for practice..

Paul again proves why I still prefer my 45ACP's over 10mm's, ammo cost not withstanding. 230 FMJ hardball shoots POA in both. And, if needed, I bought a case of G2 45ACP 230 JHP +P last year. It also shoots POA, with slightly more recoil. And yes, I rented a couple of 10mm's at my local range, before I decided on my second 1911.

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Heavily armed old man.

I absolutely cannot stand Paul Harrel.

Otherwise, my next pistol will be either a .45ACP or 10mm (depending on when my number is up for the CMP or when I find a cheap Glock 20). I like the .45ACP for the 1911, and my most used 1911, my MC Operator, would just feel tragic in another caliber, as non-.45 1911s often do. I think this comes from the combination of the 1911 being an old designed surpassed by modern offerings, but with an irresistable charm that keeps us coming back, and if we desired the use of other calibers, we could generally exploit their advantages better in another platform.

10mm though, I've been super impressed with that. As a woods gun, the performance of the 10mm round combined with the size, capacity, "shootability", price, and durability of platforms like the Gen 4 Glock 20 is outstanding. I'm currently using a heavy load in a .357 smith anywhere there's grizzly, and the MC Operator with +P 255gr hardcast for areas without. I've got no interest in ever returning to the .44 mag as a practical weapon, and were it not for the current shortage of interesting 10mm ammo I'd be all in on the 10mm already.

I own both but found it interesting he compared the lightest 45 bullet to one of the heaviest 10 mm ones. Yes velocities are going to be closer that way.

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Front sight and squeeze

If you want to impress the younger women get a 10mm. And a Corvette.

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9tenz

The most striking difference between 10m and .45 ACP is doubling-up on hearing protection with the 10mm.

Thanks for sharing, good info and not boring.
He seems like a really nice person too.

I don't have a 10mm and don't plan of buying one.
I have two M&P 45s and that's good enough for me.

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Kenny
Endeavor to persevere.

I watch that guy once in a while. His testing is anecdotal at best. He reminds me of one of those fortune tellers in that all of his conclusions are meaningful to someone. His results can be interpreted about any way you want. He doesn't use any kind of control so there's nothing to compare his outcomes to. As in, "I shot this ham wrapped in a blanket and it seemed to move more when I shot it with the 44 than it did when I shot it with the 22lr". He is mildly entertaining though.

I believe that above all else, Paul Harrell caters to his viewers. They want to see a head-to-head comparison between Round X and Round Y, he gives them a head-to-head comparison between X and Y. They want to see him shooting soda bottles and watermelons wrapped up in pork ribs and duct tape, he gives them that also. They want his lectures brief and and on point, well you get the drift.

Don't ever mistake what he produces for scientific research or exhaustive engineering testing. He performs brief comparisons and informative lectures. One thing you can say, he is consistent. Another is he is entertaining to those who choose to watch him. And he has a very good vocabulary.

While it certainly is hard to argue with his shooting bona fides, he is not a firearms engineer - I believe he is a dental technician.

Paul certainly does better than those who shoot at wet clay blocks or rows of cinder blocks.