Shipping a hand gun from a non FFL

I haven't looked at the S&W Forum TOS lately but it's typically against most forum rules to suggest folks commit Federal felonies intentionally. This is an exceptionally bad suggestion.

Well the very large number of sellers on GB, some with FFLs, some with C&Rs and some with neither that have thousands of positive feedbacks and clearly state that ALL handguns are shipped only by Priority mail only don't post on here. So they're ok and I'm a baaaad person. OK I promise never to re-offend :eek: My guess is the PO ships many thousands of handguns by priority mail, the BATF knows this and ignores it because they simply are not a factor in crime. If this was stopped at a great cost of time and resources by the BATF the result would be a big uptick in stolen guns. The good old USPS is by far the most secure and reliable of package shippers. So exactly who is being victimized if the BATF simply ignores it and allows the Postal system to make lots of money?
 
Well the very large number of sellers on GB, some with FFLs, some with C&Rs and some with neither that have thousands of positive feedbacks and clearly state that ALL handguns are shipped only by Priority mail only don't post on here. So they're ok and I'm a baaaad person. OK I promise never to re-offend :eek: My guess is the PO ships many thousands of handguns by priority mail, the BATF knows this and ignores it because they simply are not a factor in crime. If this was stopped at a great cost of time and resources by the BATF the result would be a big uptick in stolen guns. The good old USPS is by far the most secure and reliable of package shippers. So exactly who is being victimized if the BATF simply ignores it and allows the Postal system to make lots of money?
First and foremost, we are not Gun Broker. How they run their site is their business. Whether they turn a blind eye to people shipping in violation of postal regulations is again, none of our business. This is the S&W Forum, not Gun Broker.
 
First and foremost, we are not Gun Broker. How they run their site is their business. Whether they turn a blind eye to people shipping in violation of postal regulations is again, none of our business. This is the S&W Forum, not Gun Broker.

Well I said the BATF might be turning a blind eye, not Gun Broker. But like I said I will not re-offend and ever post on this often raised question again. I've learned my lesson, OK?
 
It is 100% legal for FFL's to ship handguns in the USPS, so I'm not quite sure what grand conspiracy you believe you're the only one savvy about.

If you don't have an FFL and you ship a handgun through the USPS using your "don't ask don't tell" suggestion, you're willfully committing a Federal felony.

So when you suggest that folks do it because you believe that so many others are doing it, you're simply suggesting that they willfully commit a felony.

It isn't personal--

It's a bad idea regardless of your motive.

It's a bad idea regardless of what you think others are doing.
 
I think you are demonstrating your misunderstanding of various shipping policies and legalities. At this point, I'd just call it a day. Your original premise is wrong. Your statement about "all handguns shipped priority mail" to me means that the ffl's ship priority mail back and forth. Nobody is being victimized, and very few are ignoring USPS regulations.


Well the very large number of sellers on GB, some with FFLs, some with C&Rs and some with neither that have thousands of positive feedbacks and clearly state that ALL handguns are shipped only by Priority mail only don't post on here. So they're ok and I'm a baaaad person. OK I promise never to re-offend :eek: My guess is the PO ships many thousands of handguns by priority mail, the BATF knows this and ignores it because they simply are not a factor in crime. If this was stopped at a great cost of time and resources by the BATF the result would be a big uptick in stolen guns. The good old USPS is by far the most secure and reliable of package shippers. So exactly who is being victimized if the BATF simply ignores it and allows the Postal system to make lots of money?
 
FFLs can ship via USPS Priority Mail to other FFLs. There is additional paperwork to do, and my local postmaster needs a copy of my FFL with each shipment. I just dropped a bunch off today, and will drop more off tomorrow. For a FFL shipping handguns, USPS Priority Mail is often the cheapest option.

That being said, USPS and the other common carriers have x-ray equipment to see what is in packages. USPS also keeps records of every piece of mail. It's not a great idea for a non-FFL to try to ship a firearm without declaring it. Especially when the cost to just have an FFL ship it is pretty negligible.

Some FFLs also will not do transfers that come from a non-licensee out of state. OP won't know if his buyers FFL will or not, until the buyer comes to fruition. If you have a good relationship with a local FFL, it's probably best to just have them ship it, which should be a nominal fee.
 
Last edited:
Do the same rules for pistols pertain to rifles and shotguns and
modern black power rifles.

The USPS is happy to ship all long guns, modern or C&R, and black powder guns from individuals. The recipient must have a proper FFL, 01or C&R if gun is C&R. Black powder guns do not require any FFL from the postal system.
 
Do the same rules for pistols pertain to rifles and shotguns and
modern black power rifles.


The USPS Domestic Mail Manual is available online. Take the time to read and comprehend the parts related to shipping firearms. Most of the postal employees have no clue and will simply refuse to accept a firearm.
 
Best to read this link:
432 Mailability | Postal Explorer

432.3 Rifles and Shotguns
From section "b"

A rifle or shotgun owned by a non-FFL may be mailed outside the owner's state of residence by the owner to himself or herself, in care of another person in the other state where he or she intends to hunt or engage in any other lawful activity. These mailpieces must:
Be addressed to the owner.
Include the "in the care of" endorsement immediately preceding the name of the applicable temporary custodian.
Be opened by the rifle or shotgun owner only.
Be mailed using a class of mail, product, or Extra Service that provides tracking and signature capture at delivery.

I can ship a long gun via USPS from Florida to Colorado following the rules.
As stated above, many postal works are clueless and will not accept the long gun even when shown the rules.
Sad but true.
 
Last edited:
Here is what I know to be fact and up-to-date LOCALLY

Gentlemen, I am NOT a lawyer, or a BATFE employee, or a 01 FFL.

I am a very frequent buyer and seller here on this Forum of handguns, predominantly S&W, but have sold Colt, Ruger and WWII Luger also.

I do hold a valid 03 FFL and have for years. 03 is Curios and Relics which the BATF defines as 50 years old minimum. As of today this means 1973 manufacture date, but we are less than 1/2 way thru 2023 so I personally use 1972 as a cut-off year, thus my most recent sale of a Model 25-2 with a ship date (per Letter) of February 14, 1972.

Now, how do I ship?

I do NOT use Bud's Ship my Gun because they only use UPS and no third party, kiosk or franchise UPS pickup point will accept. Only the Regional Customer Service Center which as posted by others, has NO PUBLIC ACCESS at any time.

I CAN use local 01 FFL's (LGS and Pawn Shops), but I DO NOT because they are extremely cost prohibitive! The lowest rate I have found is $75.00 plus shipping ($50) plus full value insurance ($50 and up). So a gun selling for $1000 adds $175 and they do NOT want it wrapped up or boxed because they have to enter the serial number onto their FFL logs. Most all are stores selling new and used guns and my transfer is nothing but competition to them, not really "extra money".

Because I personally want to wipe down the gun, place it into a gun rug (in-expensvive Allen brand), pack & protect, pad the entire shipment, including a plastic page sleeve containing the signed Bill-of-Sale, owners Manual, other docs, Factory Letter if I have them, a copy of my VA DL and my 03 FFL. This way I know (and photo) the shipment is clean, well packed and sealed.

I then use exclusively Federal Express!. Their Medium and Large, Overnight boxes are sturdy, and easily take all (the gun in the gun rug, bubble wrapped and page sleeve with documents). I double tape all corners to completely seal out all outside weather effects.

More than 2 years ago I had no trouble just presenting at Fed-Ex counter and they would print the label and away it went, however then (also as posted above) the CARRIERS changed their internal rules (NOT the BATF). They would no longer print the label IF you had to have ASR (Adult Signature Required). Please do not flame me for this statement as it may only apply to me and my local Fed-Ex station, so I don't know about you or your local Fed-Ex.

I was told that I have to print my own ASR label from home on my computer/printer and in order to do that I had to start a Fed-Ex Account which I did.

I was told by Fed-Ex employee that the reason is that with this method, YOU are the shipper of WHATEVER is in that package, they (Fed-Ex) doesn't know and doesn't want to know. Anything illegal is now YOUR problem...not theirs.

It is all fine with me as I get on my account click the send to name & address (usually a 01 FFL that I have already received from the buyers FFL a copy of their current and valid 01 License), click the ASR required, click the additional insurance (std included is only $100) and put in full value of my sale, then BEFORE I click print I can see the entire charges for the Overnight freight rate, the insurance and the charge for ASR (either a storefront, or residence) all totalled. If I'm OK with the total, hit print and out comes the label.

Put the label in the closeable/sealable pouch peel and stick the pouch onto the box and take it down to Fed-Ex station and tender it at the counter. Agent takes it and checks that my weight is the same on their scale as I weighed at home and they print me a acceptance receipt for the package. No money changes hands, no information is asked for or given. In..Out.. over and done.

The Tracking number is already printed on the label when I did it at home, so all is good to go. I get home I e-mail the Buyer the tracking number and send some pics of the shipment, and everybody's happy.

Again........The above works for me, here in Central Atlantic Viginia.........I don't know what may work for you, but I've sold and shipped handguns, long guns, and even ammo (just have to click Fed_ex Ground...can't go air or next day). Haven't had any problems and I believe the Buyers have been satisfied too.

If you need any more details just PM me and I'll do my best to assist, but again...I'm not a Lawyer, or employee of Fed-Ex or BATFE.

PS I have already included my estimate of costs when I first advertise the gun for sale, because I have found (especially with SWCA For Sale Forum) that one price noted as "shipped and insured" is better than saying buyer pays shipment and insurance later at actual cost.

If my shipped and insured gun price is too high, the Forum will let you know by letting your add sit for weeks until you get the idea and reduce.:D So far I haven't had anyone tell me price is too low!
 

Attachments

  • 27-2 shipment to Pete DeRestie.jpg
    27-2 shipment to Pete DeRestie.jpg
    119.8 KB · Views: 35
  • Mod 28-2 shipment.jpg
    Mod 28-2 shipment.jpg
    103.7 KB · Views: 26
Put the label in the closeable/sealable pouch peel and stick the pouch onto the box and take it down to Fed-Ex station and tender it at the counter. Agent takes it and checks that my weight is the same on their scale as I weighed at home and they print me a acceptance receipt for the package. No money changes hands, no information is asked for or given. In..Out.. over and done.


Federal Regulation requires that you notify the common carrier that an unloaded firearm is in the box.

In today's political climate, my advice is... Do your own research. Failure to follow all regulations can and will get you in trouble with the feds and, as we've seen lately, they will have no mercy.
 
I do NOT use Bud's Ship my Gun because they only use UPS and no third party, kiosk or franchise UPS pickup point will accept. Only the Regional Customer Service Center which as posted by others, has NO PUBLIC ACCESS at any time.


Color me baffled. How can you have a customer service center with no access? I think I went to the one here in Vegas many years ago and got through the door OK.


As for your use of Fedex, that's roughly how I shipped a gun about 10 years ago. I had to send it one-day air and it cost about $80.
 
Addition to my statements in above post

Photoman is correct in that Federal Regs require me to identify the shipment as a unloaded firearm. This (for me) is done during my ASR label data inputting section on my Fed-Ex Account.

I should have been more clear that I do NOT identify what is in the package at the Fed-Ex counter when tendering. It already has the official Fed-Ex generated ASR label and they simply do not ask for any further info.

Since the counter clerks have been the same for years, they know me, and the label clearly shows shipping to "Joes Gun Shop" or "Billy Bob's Firearms Emporium", etc. I suspect they do know what's in the box but again I have identified to Fed-Ex when I applied for and stated the correct category on my account before printing the label.

Again........just how it has been working for me, in this particular area.

Like Photoman also says...Do your own research!

PS: My Fed-Ex method is only slightly less costs than the local LGS but I just don't like the idea of handing over the gun I just sold for $1600 to a counter clerk that flips open the cylinder, checks that it's unloaded, then just sites it on the counter with my other documents, takes my $75.00 gives me a receipt then just takes all and places it behind the cash register, and tells me "we'll call you later today, or tomorrow when we get it all packed up" and you can come in and pay shipping and insurance costs.

Meanwhile the gun sits open on the gun rug with documents loose (along with SAT cleaning tools or any other accessories I sold) and who knows how many come along and flip the cylinder, put more fingerprints, wrap and protect how (if any), etc. etc. et. al. ad. infintum...

Just not my selling style, I'm proud of what I own, and of what I sell.

Hope this helps clear up some things I said in the OP.
 
Color me baffled too!

Color me baffled. How can you have a customer service center with no access? I think I went to the one here in Vegas many years ago and got through the door OK.


As for your use of Fedex, that's roughly how I shipped a gun about 10 years ago. I had to send it one-day air and it cost about $80.

LVSteve is not the only one baffled. I still have a UPS Account as well as Fed-Ex and yes...they were cheaper than Fed-Ex and I could tender at the regional customer service center (about 40 miles away), BUT along came 2020 and the "customer service center" no longer has "customer access". Drive down there. Employees only. No one answers the phone, no appointments. I though all just Covid related, but nope..still no can do, so I've let the UPS Account go dormant and close.

Hope this helps if you are in the same boat.
 
It is 100% legal for FFL's to ship handguns in the USPS, so I'm not quite sure what grand conspiracy you believe you're the only one savvy about.

If you don't have an FFL and you ship a handgun through the USPS using your "don't ask don't tell" suggestion, you're willfully committing a Federal felony.

So when you suggest that folks do it because you believe that so many others are doing it, you're simply suggesting that they willfully commit a felony.

It isn't personal--

It's a bad idea regardless of your motive.

It's a bad idea regardless of what you think others are doing.

And it's working with the premise that it's only illegal if you are caught. Drug dealers operate under the same protocols. :rolleyes:

John
 
Last edited:
Photoman is correct in that Federal Regs require me to identify the shipment as a unloaded firearm. This (for me) is done during my ASR label data inputting section on my Fed-Ex Account.

I should have been more clear that I do NOT identify what is in the package at the Fed-Ex counter when tendering. It already has the official Fed-Ex generated ASR label and they simply do not ask for any further info.

Since the counter clerks have been the same for years, they know me, and the label clearly shows shipping to "Joes Gun Shop" or "Billy Bob's Firearms Emporium", etc. I suspect they do know what's in the box but again I have identified to Fed-Ex when I applied for and stated the correct category on my account before printing the label.

Again........just how it has been working for me, in this particular area.

Like Photoman also says...Do your own research!

PS: My Fed-Ex method is only slightly less costs than the local LGS but I just don't like the idea of handing over the gun I just sold for $1600 to a counter clerk that flips open the cylinder, checks that it's unloaded, then just sites it on the counter with my other documents, takes my $75.00 gives me a receipt then just takes all and places it behind the cash register, and tells me "we'll call you later today, or tomorrow when we get it all packed up" and you can come in and pay shipping and insurance costs.

Meanwhile the gun sits open on the gun rug with documents loose (along with SAT cleaning tools or any other accessories I sold) and who knows how many come along and flip the cylinder, put more fingerprints, wrap and protect how (if any), etc. etc. et. al. ad. infintum...

Just not my selling style, I'm proud of what I own, and of what I sell.

Hope this helps clear up some things I said in the OP.

It appears to me that the reason you are able to do this is because you are shipping as an FFL 03. Not as a private individual. Still marginal.
 

Latest posts

Back
Top