Why does KBB even exist? Every dealership I’ve dealt with undercuts the KBB trade-in value by $2-3k. They claim it doesn’t account for having to keep a car on the lot too long if it doesn’t sell. But why doesn’t KBB know that? Are they both worthless liars? Why do we keep putting up with these flim flam scammers we call car dealerships?

Yes, they are both worthless liars...................

The dealers are the liars. The fatter they are the more they lie. When times are lean they’re willing to deal. I used to enjoy the haggling process with an old school salesman. There was a mutual respect. Now dealers treat people as if they are stupid. My wife says I still enjoy it because it gives me an excuse to be mean to them.

We have used the same dealership for over 30 years. We have yet to encounter a bad purchase or service experience. If they were lying all that time then we must be the king and queen of gullibility.

We must be living wrong.

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Music/Sports/Beer fan

What is GB?

Kevin

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Unshared knowledge is wasted.

The Kelly Blue Book is only a rough "guide" and is not gospel. A lot of what a used car is really worth is based on many factors. The car prevailing market, the prevailing interest rates, the supply of used cars, the condition and milage of the car, demand for that particular model and what you actually pay for the new car. A Dealer who pays you "too much" for your used car is more than likely adding extra profit onto the new car to make up for that.

Dealers are not in business to loose money, however they can and do manipulate prices of the total deal to sell you a new car. They might also pay you more money on your trade in if you take a loan on your new car. They make more money when financing a car than selling it outright for cash.

So when it comes to the Kelly Blue Book, use it strictly as a rough guide and get the best deal you can.

I would never let a dealer tell me that. The value of the car, is the value of the car, not how long it will take to turn it over in a sale.

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Pete
I ain't no fortunate son

I agree with all this. But none of that is what the dealer said. He could have just said what you said, but didn’t.

I did have one or two honest, fair experiences, but most of them come across as pathological liars.

Price guides, in general, are just guides.

The dealership is going to make profit either in the front end or the back end.

If you want to get the most out of selling, well, anything, sell it yourself. The buyer is going to low ball.

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Thread Killer.

I’ll add that the salesman we talked to was great, it was the finance guy who was slimy.

They were using KBB when I bought my '54 Ford pickup new. Paid 1988 out the door with a 596 trade in a '46 Ford two door. Time hasn't changed much with Kelly Blue Book since then. In 2010 I bought a '07 Ranger 4x4. Dealer wanted 24,500 bucks. After 4 trips I paid 18, 225. It had 20,600 miles, Now has 101,250. Good rig.

The prices quoted in KBB are an average of all reported transactions for same make, model, year, comparable mileage, factory optional equipment, overall condition, etc. Usually given as retail (what a dealer charged), trade-in (allowance given in trade), wholesale (out the door to get rid of it via low-end dealers or auction houses). In recent years there may be a value quoted upon private party resales (no dealer involved).

What I have experienced is dealers who focus trade-in only on the "base unit", regardless of factory upgrades that increase value, and understate potential value due to overall condition, low mileage, etc.

Naturally, since the buyer is focused on something he wants to acquire, the emphasis is heavily placed upon the ultimate desirability and value of the unit picked out by Mr. Customer. Also, since the buyer wants to trade in a vehicle no longer wanted or needed, the emphasis is heavily weighted against that particular unit because of low market demand.

In the military we referred to these things as psychological operations, tactical maneuvers and information intended to persuade the other side in the decision making processes.

Of course, the tag team approach comes into play as the sales rep, sales manager, and finance manager take turns on Mr. Customer, blow smoke, pump ego, deflate willpower, inject doubt, generally convince Mr. Customer that it will all be much better after he has signed the papers.

Dealers and sales reps don't even want to talk about price, all they want to know is what level of payment you want, then try to build a deal based on that. Even when they pull out the dealer invoice on the purchase intended that really tells you nothing, because those figures are constantly in flux depending on dealership volume, factory incentives, and a dozen other undisclosed factors. The factory invoice is nothing more than a gimmick by itself.

Many people purchase a new vehicle several times during their lives, and many prefer to trade in the old vehicle rather than deal with the hassles of selling it privately. Very few people spend the months and years necessary to perfect the negotiation techniques common to modern car dealerships.

Caveat emptor.

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Life of the party until 8:00PM

A lot of the trade-ins go to used car auctions, so they aren't sitting on the lots very long. I used to get a new car every 3-4 years. Now, I'm just hoping these ones we have now will last longer than my driving abilities.

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Waiting For The Sun.

Thing is, we’re told demand for used cars is high. Apparently that’s another lie.

As a person that has been a gear head since the late 1950s and around cars and car people I have seen/heard a lot!
Have bought a lot of new cars and trucks over the years (55 as a minimum) and have a lot of conclusions made about the process.

At best your a amateur or possibly at semi pro level and dealing with a full blown professional/s.

There are many different "guides" out there and normally what happens is the salesperson/sales manager says Oh your book is know to be way behind the times or that book is always high on their prices or that book is always very low on what they say. They use what they want at that time if its in their favor!

In plain English they tailor their pitch as they are always right and you are always wrong book wise.

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14 S&W Revs none with locks!

The best tool to use in discussing a car deal is a good pair of walking shoes and knowing when to use them.
Some dealers however require running shoes.

And hands Mr Customer a rape kit as he walks out the door.

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I’m your Boogie Man, uh huh.

Lobo u are correct on all of that. Customer just has to call BS and walk out. I tell every salesman the same thing. “ I just need 2 numbers. What you’re giving me on trade and what you’re willing to sell me new vehicle for”. At that point they know I won’t be baffled by their nonsense. As soon as they start talking payments I say stop. The payment will be what it’s gonna be. Let’s make a deal then we’ll talk finance. Or maybe I’ll get my own.

They don’t care if you walk out. Someone else will walk right in and pay their price. Dealerships hold all the cards these days.

I’m trying to conduct my own business that way. Pay my high fee, or wait three months, or walk away. My work load is going to affect my health soon if I don’t rein it in.

Not true. I walked out of GMC dealership on a Tuesday in July. By the following Saturday they had called me 3 times. I’ve had other dealers not take my offer only to call me back at end of month to say we’ll do the deal if we can close it today. One advantage dealers have today is there’s low inventory. If they have a vehicle you want they know you might not find it anywhere else. As for trade in , a lot of people I know are selling to CarMax. They have a lot of equity at lease end that they don’t even know they had.

Car Salesmen have gained their reputation by "earning" it. I believe almost nothing of what they say and find that many of them know less about the vehicles they are selling than some of the customers buying them.

In today's world there are many Youtube video's exposing their tactics, intentionally left out facts and lies and they have to constantly come up with new ones. In he past, the industry was not as well exposed nor were the sales people AS corrupt as they are today.

Like timeshare salespeople.

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I’m your Boogie Man, uh huh.

I gotta a gal! She has been awesome through 16 purchases and leases in 9 years. Both personal and business. She works at a Chevy dealer, but has gotten me a Ford and 3 GMCs thru their other dealerships. I find her to be professional, honest and upfront. She appreciates me and I, her. If you have a relationship based on those attributes then car buying is pretty easy and you'll find the dealer isn't out to...um...bend you over at every chance.
Of course, that's just me and YMMV!

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paws for friendship

Goes both ways. A friend was recently in an accident and his Honda Ridge-line truck was totaled. The insurance company for the other person (at fault) paid out $2000 more than he paid for the for the truck 2 years earlier. It was $2000 over the KBB estimate.

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H Richard
SWCA1967 SWHF244

I had a guy at GMC Dealership. He was very honest and straightforward. I needed a truck in Oct 2020 during Covid. He had no stock and couldn’t find me what I wanted. I found one about 80mi away and ended up leasing it. Must have been an omen because that truck had a lot of issues in 3 yrs. So much so that I went back to Ford in July and bought a new F250. Haven’t owned a Ford in almost 25 yrs.

I absolutely love(d) my GMC pick ups. My son has one and loves it. My wife will be trading in her Chevy Tahoe on a '24 GMC Yukon in a month or two. Conversely, I have a 2022 3/4 ton extended, high-top Ford Transit at my shop. It is plagued with a multitude of gremlins and has seen more shop time in 1 year than all of my other GM work trucks combined. And, the gas mileage sucks, despite being my only 6 cylinder.
Like I said in my O P, "Your mileage may vary". However, in my world, that is my last Ford.

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paws for friendship